Discussion: clients unable to pay

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

This is a post both on your personal policies but also an issue of etiquette I suppose. At what point do you require payment? How do you handle someone who tries to buy art from you but you later find out they're unable to pay you? And since this is often an issue of the client being irresponsible with their funds, how on earth do you phrase the whole thing?

I've only experienced this once, and thankfully I found out they didn't have the funds before I started the work. I won't name the person, but they wanted something like the strip of 4 pictures that you get from a photobooth, 2 characters in each shot. This would have made it a pretty big commission so they asked to pay in installments. I agreed, and said I would start sketching after receiving the first payment. We agreed on a deadline for her to send it.

The date she was supposed to send the money came and went with no payment, and no explanation either. I waited for two weeks before sending a note flatly stating that I was cancelling the commission as I had other people wanting to get art from me. This perhaps seems hasty (hence why I am asking for your opinions on this type of issue) but the way I see it is if I have such a hard time getting partial payment before beginning the work, the chances of receiving the rest of it would be even less. Had she noted me at the time saying that she would be sending the money a little later than expected that would have been fine, but the lack of communication on her end made me decide that I didn't want to get any deeper into this.

What I sent to her was
"Since it's been 2 weeks since we agreed upon your commission and I've heard nothing further nor received any partial payment I'm canceling your commission slot. Nothing personal I just figure you are no longer interested and I have other people who would like a piece from me so I am moving along."
Her reply
"not that i'm not interested..i just had a lot of bills come up that im struggling to pay currently."

My first thought really was 'if you are struggling to pay bills then why try to commission art you know you can't afford?" along with feeling semi-guilt-tripped so I didn't really know how to respond to that. Handling the whole thing was difficult for me as it was my first time experiencing this situation. It was frustrating and disappointing.

Note that I don't really think that this person had any intention to scam me, more like she simply went a little beyond her means I guess which makes it a little trickier to deal with. It's easy to not feel mean when dealing with people who have shady intentions.

Comments

[mandyseley.livejournal.com]

My advice on your situation:

I think you handled that fine. I think 2 weeks is a generous buffer, and you weren't rude in your response. Let her know that you'll be happy to take her commission when her financial situation is a bit more stable.

Don't let her guilt trip you, either. Her bills are her responsibility. She can try again to get a pretty picture from you when she can afford it.

My advice overall:

Personally, I take full payment upon completion for my commissions. I'm lucky that I haven't run into any problems with it, so far, and to have the luxury of being able to wait for payment, since I don't rely on commissions for much of my income.

There is a clause in my TOS about cancelled commissions, though, that says I can re-work a cancelled piece to be a different character or subject and use it however I see fit. As such, for a non-paying customer, I would likely work out some kind of deadline, and then hold them to it. If they don't pay, the work is mine.

Don't let the guilt trips get to you. Phrasing for these sorts of things should be professional but firm, with very little emotion. "Sorry to hear that, but please understand that I still need payment by such-and-such date, or I will consider the contract for our commission to be cancelled."

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Normally I sketch the commission first, show them a preview and ask for payment but in this case because she wanted to pay in installments something gave me the vibe I should ask for some money upfront. And I'm glad I did, I could've done 1-4 sketches unpaid. D:

As yet I haven't had any problems with anyone taking art and running but I think I might add a clause like yours into my TOS :) Thank you for the advice.

[khaoskomix.livejournal.com]

I don't give people commission slots until they've paid. Until that happens they are potential clients, whereas ones that have paid get given a slot.

Don't let them guilt you, they have no right to your work yet.

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

I had to do this twice recently with people not following through on a commission after discussing it with me and clearly stating they wanted to buy. So, their spot is forfeit if I contact them twice about it with no response or commitment. Since I work with full payment up front on pictures totalling less than a few hundred bucks, it's far more fair to real customers that way.

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

I don't give anyone anything until they've paid, if it is a large amount they can do half first and half upon completion but they won't get the final piece till they finish paying.

I would say that if someone contacted me intent to buy but never paid, I'd probably give them a nudge to remind them "Hey, are you still interested in this?" but other than that, I'm not too concerned about it.

Now like if someone did a Request with me, and then they strongly hinted/stated outright they might pay to 'upgrade' it on say, livestream (this has happened to me before) and then they never paid after the work was rendered? well simply, I just wont do work with them again unless they pay upfront. This is also why I rarely draw on livestream- not a lot of people are willing to whip out the cash and pay immediately, and that impulse buy won't be driven by impulse later.

[lichdog.livejournal.com]

You handled it just as I would. And you're right, if they're struggling to get by, you shouldn't be buying commissions.

I almost always take up payment up front (unless I know the client) and even so, I don't show the goods until it has been 100% paid off. So even if she did duck out before 100% payment was due, you could always modify the picture slightly and offer it to be done to a client's customization for a discounted price

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you handled it right. 2 weeks is more than long enough to wait for a first payment D:
I guess the only (very minor) thought is if it happened again, avoid speculating why the payment hasn't been made (" I just figure you are no longer interested" is pretty neutral and polite, but still projects things on the commissioner). Just leave that out I think :)

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Good point. I mentioned the not interested thing because no communication + no payment would equal lack of interest to a lot of artists and perhaps she didn't realise that. It's not so much projecting onto someone as trying to indicate to them how they come across. Plus when I had it as solely saying "I'm kicking you off my list for not paying" it sounded too mean. Telling them I didnt think they were interested anymore was me trying to soften the blow =p but I get what you mean.

[torikonero.livejournal.com]

I am not an artist, so feel free to ignore what I have to say. x3

I have seen many artists trying to battle against lost wages when it comes to commissions. The smartest ideas I've seen involve completely watermarking an image and not sending the commissioner the non-watermarked image until they have paid, and taking payment upfront. The latter is to be done ONLY if the artist believes they can produce the work in a timely manner and can afford every refund if they realize that they cannot work in a timely manner. Personally I like the watermarking idea. I've seen some artists completely cover a commission and mark "UNPAID" on it so that the commissioner can see that the work is done, but they cannot get the art until they have paid. Some people I know take 50% before working and 50% upon completion, but even they have been shortchanged for that last 50%. It's hard. :/

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I think you handled it fine. I personally require full payment up front (and then I usually keep it in my paypal until I've at least sketched the work, just in case), but in the case of a bigger commission, I would require payment in commission steps. That is, I'd get payment upfront for the sketch stage, and then complete the sketch stage, get approval, and then require payment upfront for inks, and so on. This would ensure that even if they back off, I have payment for what I've already done.

I think you were correct in judging that if she's that flaky before you guys even get started, it probably would have been worse once you actually got into it. She's free to commission you when she has her stuff together.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's exactly what I'd planned to do in this case since it was a big one. Taking payment in stages is fine with me. Usually I don't take payment til they've approved of a sketch but had a funny feeling about this one which was why I asked for partial upfront.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I used to do it the way you do it now, but I stopped when I had people taking the sketch and running with it, even when it was low quality! People have a lot of nerve. So now I require payment in full upfront. I'm not dealing with that again.

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

As others have said I think you handled it well.

I've only had the recurring problem of people reserving slots and then vanishing off the face of the planet, not paying, not answering my notes, nothing. I've had this happen this several times so its gotten to the point where, as it was mentioned above, I don't reserve a slot for someone until they've actually paid for it, and it's worked out fine.

It just seems like sometimes folks want to pounce at an opportunity they feel will not be there later so they jump at it without really thinking of their finances first, and that's what leads to this stalling.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I think you handled it fine! c:

I take full payment up front, and my refunds are on a case by case basis. I've only had to issue one refund so far in my history (and it was my choice, the commissioner insisted that I couldn't draw his feline. He repeatedly told me the face looked like a possum :|)

If someone is interested in a commission, once they send me refs I add them to my queue under my "Awaiting Payment" section. After they have paid, I put them down at the bottom of my paid queue.

If people are unsure about paying for a full commission up front, I offer partial payment options, but I add on a few dollars as an inconvenience tax XD

[zombee-puppy.livejournal.com]

I've never had a really large commission to do, people usually just want chibis and icons from me which are rather cheap. So I usually ask for full payment up front, because I am afraid of doing work and getting nothing in return. (It's happened so much with art trades, got some I've been waiting YEARS on. Given up hope on them lol)

I think you handled the situation well. :)

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Personally I ask for payment up front, if they don't pay then I cancel the commission.

If a would be client came to me with an explanation of how they're having a tough time I would tell them that I'm sorry to hear they're having troubles that preclude their obtainment of a luxury service (make no bones about it, art IS a luxury), I would wish them luck in resolving their current difficulties and day that I'd be happy to work with them once their troubles are resolved.

I'm sympathetic to their troubles but until they have the money to pay for my services, we can't do business and as sympathetic as I am, I try to avoid doing free art very often because I have my own bills to pay, which are no less important than the bills of anyone else. Some people might think I'm hard hearted but I learned the hard way that being soft hearted gets you hurt and drained of resources.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I really wanted to say something like that to her for wasting my time but would have felt like I'd have been unnecessarily rude doing so. It should be pretty obvious to someone that if they can't keep themselves afloat where bills are concerned then more frivolous pleasures like commissions aren't something they should be pursuing.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, sometimes things just fall through, not every nibble is going to result in a contract or in payment, our local council run youth group a few years back contracted me to make them a website, we had it all agreed and everything, I was making the image files for it and building their photo gallery when about halfway through it was "er we don't have the money for this" all of a sudden because their budget suddenly got cut by the council big wigs.

It wasn't their fault that the local council suddenly pulled more than half their funding without warning. There was really nothing anyone could do except apologise to me.

Personally I take these thing philosophically, if you get annoyed at every deal that falls through, your blood pressure will go thorough the roof quickly. Not all commission discussions will lead to paid work, and sometimes everything does just fall apart with a company and you don't get paid for work because there is no money.

Yeah, it's rude of her not to get back to you about the commission when she realised she didn't have any money for it but at the end of the day, there's nothing you can really do about it so dwelling on it does no good.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

Fortunately, fursuitmakers have it better off than traditional 2d artists in this respect, as most of us require the materials be paid for up front.

Even if the commissioner decides not to pay for the 'finished' product, most people don't issue refunds on materials- so if they screw us, we can just furbid it and still make SOME profit, even if its just like.. $75. But its better than being in the red, even if it ends up to me like.. $0.10/hour.

I usually offer the client a window to purchase their finished piece(Like 3-4 months- ample time unless something majorly lifechanging has come up), since it can take a long time to make them and lots of life stuff can pop up. Lots and lots of people just pay for the whole thing up front, which is nice, so there's no wondering.

Although truth be told I've only ever had one person decide not to pay after I made it- and he showed up 2 years(maybe 3?) at a furmeet and was like "HEY WHERES MY FURSUIT. I PAID FOR MATERIALS" and I was like "I don't know- some guy in hong kong has it, I think. Nice guy".

[sovy.livejournal.com]

If an artist has a good work history then they should only take payment up front.

[wyna-hiros.livejournal.com]

I think you handled it fine.

Personally I usually ask for all payment up front or half up front, half at the end. If they don't pay, the commission doesn't go through/

[tooiebird.livejournal.com]

I have it set up in my Terms that if they don't pay me within 30 days, the commission is canceled.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I would just say "I look forward to working with you when you're ready!"
I bet you anything they won't actually ever commission you. I get these types of people a LOT, even though I don't openly advertise commissions anymore.

If for some reason they DO come through, just ask them to hold off sending payment til you're ready for them in your queue.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

That's the thing it wasn't just an inquiry, the commission was discussed at length and agreed on at a price SHE suggested. Like I've said before, normally with commissions I start a sketch, show it and take payment after they've seen I started the work so had I done it by my usual procedure I would have been cheated. xD

[taasla.livejournal.com]

The one time I went against my policy of payment before any work gets done, the guy waited until half way through the commission to tell me that he didn't have the money to pay me. By that time I told him to just take the icon as it is and that was that. (It was an animated icon, so you can bet I was pissed.)

Otherwise, the only time I don't take full payment up front is when I have a large commission. I think you handled your situation well. I get a lot of those who say they can't wait for work to start, and then never send payment. 2 weeks is usually my time frame before I send them a polite note that I am dropping them to make room on my list.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I don't get it, do people expect the money for commissions to magically fall into their lap if they want the art enough? Or do they think that if they don't send the money and play for time the artist won't notice? It's baffling.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

They're hoping they'll go 'I'm broke, I'm sorry!' and you'll go 'Oh really? That sucks! Have this free art because I feel bad for you!'.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's precisely what the icon fellow did to me. He went on and on about how poor he was, so I just told him to take the work as it was and have a great day.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

It's manipulation, nothing less. Another advantage to demanding payment upfront, I don't have to deal with that kind of nonsense anymore.

If I don't have money for art... I don't buy art. It's not a difficult concept.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Judging from a few interactions I've had in the past, including an attentionwhorey 'friend' I have who regularly posts about how much her life sucks in order to get free art from her watchers, I think you're absolutely right.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

It is baffling and obnoxious. Frankly, it makes me feel like the 'commissioner' doesn't value an artist's time at all.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Most of them don't, because they think art just falls out of our fingers, and it's 'fun' to do, so why should we get compensation for having fun?

Too bad most of the stuff people want drawn is boring or excessively difficult. It's work. But people don't seem to get that.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I find that non-artists don't seem to understand how sucky being an artist can be at times. They don't see the work involved, instead they look at how nice the end result was and assume that it came easily with little or no effort.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Yeah pretty much. I had someone try to argue with me that I should draw free art for them because I'm an artist and must enjoy doing it/art magically creates itself etc.

I replied that it takes me about 8 hours altogether to do a pic from start to finish, with much tedium and redoing of certain sections, and so would they like to come over to my house and spend that length of time cleaning up and doing chores for me because that would make us about even.

Surprisingly enough they declined! =O

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

I think the way you handled it was fine o_O...

o_O is it so hard to set up a budget to allow yourself some $$ to spend on commissioning people??

[skogul.livejournal.com]

Personally, I don't ask for payment until I've completed at LEAST sketches (meaning the sketches which will be inked/colored, not rough thumbnails), usually though I won't invoice a client until I've had them approve the sketch and I've completed the piece as they requested it. Then I don't release the full work to them until payment has cleared. I've never run into problems with this (either from people not paying nor from having to issue refunds because I can't complete the work as they wanted).

Two weeks is definitely a reasonable time to wait for payment to arrive. I'd even say it's more than generous on your part.