Beware: Commissioner - SunTattooWolf / NightTattooWolf

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

Status Update: SunTattooWolf has issued an apology and sent in the rest of the payment.  She also asked for this entry to be removed, but I informed her that the community policy here disallows it.  I will, however, now mark this case as "Resolved".  Thanks to everyone for reading and helping.
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Commissioner: SunTattooWolf (also known as NightTattooWolf)

History:
-On October 4th, 2010, user SunTattooWolf signed up for an Erotic Collage Commission from me (priced at $200). She provided relevent reference materials the following day, then there was a delay in communication when I discussed the payment options with her.
-On October 14th, 2010, she finally replied to me and agreed to the terms of service. She said she would send in a $50 deposit, then pay the rest in three $50 installments. I said okay, and then there was another long delay in communications.
Screenshot detailing the transaction.

-On November 5th, 2010, SunTattooWolf finally sent in the $50 deposit (I was already considering dropping her commission at that point, since communication was so poor. But I decided to give her a chance)
Screenshot for commission deposit.

-On November 13th, 2010, her piece was completed and a lower-resolution, water-marked version was uploaded to FA: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4787270/ SunTattooWolf confirmed via shouts that she saw the picture, and said she would pay off the remainder of the commission soon.
-On December 26th, 2010, SunTattoowolf attempted to get a bunch of buddies together to group bid on a $600 auction from Kaji and Nimrais on Furbid, while still oweing $150 to me and claiming that she doesn't have money for payment. I promptly issued a warning to Kaji about this commissioner.
-Around the same time she attempted to bid on Kaji's auction, SunTattooWolf shouted on AlectorFencor's page, asking her if she will be attending FC because she wants to commission her. I issued the same warning to Alector about the trouble I am having with this commissioner.
-In early January, I shouted on SunTattooWolf's page, asking her about the status of the payment (I had been doing that every 2 to 3 weeks, since she doesn't actively keep in touch). SunTattooWolf promised that she would pay off the remainder of her balance on January 18th. No payment arrived.
-On January 20th, I issued another notice to her. She said "she would have the money soon" because she was getting refunded for another commission elsewhere. This was the last time I heard from her.
-On January 27th, I issued my last shout, stating that she must pay off her commission by April 12th. She has not replied to my shout, and since she has a journal dated January 24th that stated she had a neck injury of some kind, I assumed she has simply been away for medical treatment, and hasn't been checking FA... until...
-On January 29th, 2011, SunTattooWolf shouted on AlectorFencer's page, asking for her "commission prices" for the second time.
SunTattooWolf's shout on Jan. 29th, 2011 (in case it gets washed out; all his previous ones did)

In addition to attempting to commission Kaji and AlectorFencer while oweing me money, SunTattooWolf has been commissioning several other artists throughout the whole period:
-On January 11th, 2011, Huskie666 uploaded a badge commission for SunTattooWolf http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5078285/
-On January 22nd, 2011, SunTattooWolf uploaded a commission she got from Azelyn http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5134514
-On January 22nd, 2011, SunTattooWolf signed up for a FULL COLOR illustration from Kacey http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2041518/ - a warning has already been sent to Kacey to proceed with caution in dealing with said commissioner.
-On January 26th, 2011, Korrok uploaded a commission for SunTattooWolf http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5156360/ - and when I sent Korrok a note to warn her about this commissioner, I was told that she was already bidding on another of Korrok's auctions..

Comments

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

Are there two people or are you just not sure of gender? I'm a little confused.

Thank you for the warning =/ I wonder if it's buyers remorse and they are thinking maybe you'll forget about it. That's a pretty poor thing for a commissioner to do. At least they don't have the full-rez version.

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

I think the commissioner is a she - the reason I thought it was a he is because of the Suntattoowolf/Nighttattoowolf names, I thought they were mates.

In any case, if the commissioner didn't like the piece for any reason, she could have at least spoken to me about it.

[obsidianwolfess.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit confused. Is this a he or a she? You keep switching genders, so I'm wondering if it's two people or one???

I've never heard of this person, but I will proceed with much caution if I encounter them. My only advice for you in the future would be to work on the art as you receive the payments. (I know art and inspiration don't always work that way, but ideally..) Maybe do 50% of the commission and wait for the rest before finishing it?

I'm really sorry that this happened to you. You've got beautiful art. I hope that person pays the rest soon! :(

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Seems like it's a she from the paypal name, I think the default "he" pronoun is the mistake c:

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

It's a she; I originally thought it was a he so that's the pronoun I used to type up the post. Then I checked the real name on the PayPal receipt and went back to change the pronouns, must have missed a few. My apologies.

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

I will be keeping my eyes out for this one. Thank you for making such a clean and easy-to-understand post. The screen-caps help. I unfortunately dealt with someone last year who had the same bad habit of disappearing and stopping communication when it came down to payment. It's insanely frustrating, especially when you're waiting on a substantial sum from them.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Wow, very nicely laid out post. Sorry you had to go through that :( Hope everyone steers clear until they make good on your payments.

ETA: woo, glad you got your payment!!!

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

Yes I am very glad this was resolved peacefully. ^_^ Thank you for your help! :)

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's very unfortunate, Baggy, especially considering some of us have been hoping to snag a commission slot from you. Thanks for the warning.

[minimalismo.livejournal.com]

I am very sorry that you are having to deal with this sort of immature client.

[dodger-greywing.livejournal.com]

That's rough. There are definitely shenanigans afoot here. She's obviously not hurting for money, since the artists she's commissioning are pricey by fandom standards, so there much be another reason she's leading you on like this.

I also hope any artists she's contacted that you've warned tell her to hit the road. Maybe if she gets turned down often enough she'll own up to her scam.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

You can also check their history on FurBuy for a bit of a high-level overview of their behavior and payment history: http://www.furbuy.com/cgi/showprofile.cgi?user=NightTattoowolf

Apparently she's flaked a bit on a couple other artists as well, though typically she has a pretty decent record. Some folks you just have a 10-20% chance of getting a "bad egg" from. =/ Thanks for the beware about them, I'm sure a lot of people will be keeping an eye on her from now on.

I'm also a little curious why you completed work without having the full payment up-front? Or, at the very least, why you posted a finished piece before getting full payment?

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Piece was finished, but artist posted a low-res watermarked version. It's common enough, sometimes the muse is willing an you'll zoom through a piece. What is uncommon though, is a person flaking out on their payment. Wich I think it a bit pathetic in of itself. If the artist got my work done lickity split, I'd pay them as fast as possible, not jump from artist to artist trying to get commissions when I got a past due on my tail.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

My point is that once a buyer knows the work is done (and they got a copy online), what motivation is left for them to pay? It's not a question of whether or not the buyer SHOULD pay, they are definitely obligated, but by posting the finished piece, even if small and watermarked, the seller has little leverage with which to hold the buyer to the payment. My guess is that this buyer WILL pay "someday", but when it's convenient for them. They prolly would have ponied-up a lot faster had their work been leveraged against their payment, that's what I'm getting at here.

I understand the muse and zooming through something. I understand wanting to make someone happy, and being proud of your work and wanting to show it off. But I also understand the flaky nature of people (usually driven by convenience and the path of least resistance) and understand that my time and effort is valuable, so I'm not going to hand over any amount of satisfaction until I'm 100% certain that payment is secured.

You're right that it's uncommon for someone to flake on payment. But I think it's WAY more common when someone is given a chance to - i.e. you don't take full payment up-front. Buyers who use Paypal at least have the 45 day dispute option available to them if the seller flakes, so they're already protected, they shouldn't be afraid to make full payment right away if they're above the board. So I don't see the reason why full payment can't be demanded up-front, it's what I'm used to as a commissioner and what most artists are smart enough to ask for before getting work done.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

For large commissions, a lot of customers don't want to pay full up front because the converse is true too: what's to leverage a flaky artist if they already have all your money? For large commissions, most artists can easily stall beyond the 45 day paypal dispute mark. And even if a dispute is filed in time it's no sure thing if the artists takes all the money out of their account beforehand.
I think you're right that it's a good idea not to post the finished work before full payment, or at least make it smaller, but I've seen too many people on here burned by paying full up front to say that all artists should demand that.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This. This this this.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

To me a "large commission" is something exceeding the range of say $600 or $1,000 in price. And that's only by FURRY FANDOM art standards - in the sci-fi/fantasy genre I wouldn't say something's a "large commission" unless it's into the thousands of dollars. If an artist is worth that much (objectively, I'm not here to argue market price) then they should realize the risk in taking payments or working with clients who can't afford their work, and plan appropriately.

As for not being able to use the Paypal dispute mark or the artist withdrawing their money: for the former you shouldn't be engaging a contract with someone who can't or won't get the work done within 45 days of payment (and you should file the dispute at the 44 day mark anyway, the artist will still have time to complete the work and provide evidence so the dispute can be closed - it just has to be OPENED by the 45 day mark), and for the latter maybe the artist doesn't lose the money they ripped off from one unlucky person, but they DO lose their ability to ever use Paypal again and they'll almost certainly get written-up here on AB and be ostracized and lose business for it.

I think an artist has a lot more to lose regarding reputation and future business than a buyer has to lose for their bad reputation for stiffing the other party. Artists like StarFinder are having an increasingly difficult time finding buyers, they are paying less, and as the burning continues with her, her name is just bring ground into mud. The ONLY reason she's able to continue is there are new people in furry fandom who haven't heard of her who get suckered or allured by the "quality" of her work alone. But -anyone- with -any- connection or ear to the ground in even the slightest in this fandom has heard of her and her reputation and knows better. Artists are easy to locate if they change name or location or the like, but buyers have no distinguishing marks and risk a LOT less to engage in the market - therefore the burden of forbearance should be on THEIR shoulders, not artists.

And ultimately, there's small claims court. When you engage in a contract with someone, you should be a prudent enough consumer to get their full information that you'd need to hold them legally accountable in the event of a violation of contract, regardless of which side of the contract you're on. Otherwise, if you don't take your business dealings seriously, you really don't have anyone to blame but yourself, or it clearly wasn't that important to you.

And finally, nobody is perfect. Even people with a perfect record drop the ball someday or screw something up. It happens, there's not much you can do but accept it and move on. Sometimes you gamble and lose.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

That whole saying, "one fur's small commission is another's huge one" goes here :P I figured it was "large" to the buyer at least since it had to be done in deposits / installments. Considering how much trouble some furs seem to have scraping together $200 for rent I figure it could be quite a "large" commission for some folks.
But yes in comparison to other things, not too "large".

I, personally, make sure to get any commissions done within a month of receiving them - and that's with weekly work and progress shots. However looking at this community and comments, I don't think that's the norm? I don't really understand it but I'm sure if someone posted here complaining a painting took more than 45 days most folks would say "relax, it hasn't been that long for a complicated piece" :P

Coulda woulda shoulda, right now a lot of artists take longer than the 45 day TOS and I don't think it's right for them to ask the full amount up front for that very reason.

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

In my experience, furry commissioners usually have a lower budget than you described. There may be a few big spenders in the fandom willing to dump $600+ on a single commission, but most people can't. A lot of my clients do have to pay in installments for commissions priced around $200 - in fact, even for $50 commissions I would get requests like "Can I pay you this coming Wednesday? That will be my payday".

The low budget of fandom commissioners is the reason art prices are so low, because the clients are working folks, often low- to mid-income, have a debt, trying to pay off their credit card, etc.

Anyway, with regard to your earlier question "Why did I complete work before full payment was received" - I take commissions in batches and I like to get previous onesout of the way before taking on the next batch. SunTattooWolf was so late with her payments that her piece was the only one left on my to-do list. She made the deposit, and usually I put faith in my commissioners to follow through with their promise (and 90% of my commissioners are very responsible people in that regard)

In any case, I understand the point you were trying to make. :) Your input was much appreciated.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

"The low budget of fandom commissioners is the reason art prices are so low, because the clients are working folks, often low- to mid-income, have a debt, trying to pay off their credit card, etc."

I'd disagree, I think it's more because the fandom is absolutely saturated with not only artists but also with people who undercharge, those of us who should charge more are often forced to lower our prices because people like furryartist47 who lives with their folks and pays no bills are quite happy to undercut us substantially and furries wanting to get as much art as they can often will go to people like that because they're cheaper.

I think if all the artists go together and drew up a standard for pricing based on skill and level of commission, the people who want art would throw a freak out but they'd still pay it.

[meradragon.livejournal.com]

I plan to actually go into the real art business eventually, and I am continually disappointed with great artists putting such low rates on their work. I feel that when I do a $120-150 watercolor painting at a con, I'm actually going at a low rate. I will keep raising my rates, and if people want my art, they can pay for it. I will otherwise create portfolio pieces and work for a real company which will probably pay me better.

As I see it, artists who charge what their worth normally receive that much.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

It would be nice if that were true - if artists who rip people off were yanked from paypal, ostracized, and never had a buyer again. But it's not. Not every issue gets posted to AB, paypal generally refuses to do much of anything past that magic 45 days, and it's not really a fair expectation to say art MUST be finished by that point. Filing in small-claims court against someone who may be in another state or country is not really doable for a lot of people. It puts the buyer in kind of a tough spot - and tbh, this community seems to be like 65% problems with artists and maybe 35% problems with buyers. Flakey artists are not uncommon, at least in the community we're talking about. You can't blame someone too much for being unwilling to send out a couple hundred bucks on faith in the furry fandom.

That's not to say all or most artists in furry are flakes! I've bought some commissions and I've always had really good experiences. Just, the bad eggs are out there and they're not rare, so if someone's dropping more then $100 or so it's not necessarily unfair of them to ask for payments.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Folks who are worried about artist's doing a runner with their cash, should pay with credit cards, despite paypal's 45 day limit, a credit card company can override that and insist the funds are returned.

[jurann.livejournal.com]

Heh, and how many artists do you know with a mercantile account that can take credit cards directly? ;D

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I believe it still works if you use the credit cards through paypal

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Note: I am NOT BLAMING THE ARTIST in any way, the commissioner is totally in the wrong here

But to guard against this sort of thing I would say it's a better idea to get a 50% deposit before going beyond rough sketch phase, and if you do want to send proof of completion make it less "nice". What the OP posted was not what I would consider "low res", and the watermark would probably be easy to remove since it was a light mark on linework :/ I would say it's a good idea to either give only partial shots of the finished work if you suspect the client is antsy about paying full before completion (understandable considering how some artists behave) or else not posting anything bigger than ~ 300 pixels wide

... I say all this without being sure if the customer is ditching because they already have art they are satisfied with or if it's because they enjoy the act of commissioning rather than having art.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

I also agree here, really multiple partial payments in my mind (which is full of cotton candy and skittles), only work better for costuming or 3D art (ex: sculpture), rather than for something like canvas (2D) art. Especially if the commission is going to hit triple digits+. 50% to get the piece of the approved sketch phase, 50% to get the piece to the finished stage.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I was commissioned by person in question a few months ago, they paid promptly upfront, within the next day I think. It did take a couple of weeks to get the second half after the art was done, but it was paid for. However, I also had the original painting still, and wasn't going to ship it until paid in full, that may have been why I was able to get the final payment, I am not sure.

Something that others being commissioned might want to be aware of, they do turn around and resell the originals pretty fast, in what looks like a rush to pay for other commissions. I was a bit confused by it, but some folks may take it a bit personally that a commissioner plans to resell originals a month later.

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most artists that she previously commissioned that I talked to said they received payment for their work.

I really don't mind if someone has financial issues and just takes a while to pay - I am actually very lenient when it comes to commissioners (or even artists I commission) that end up taking a long time to carry out their end of the bargain due to real life troubles. Some artists I commissioned 2 years ago that haven't yet delivered haven't been posted on here by me because I know they have been away for real life matters and have been getting in touch with me once in a while, saying they are sorry and they haven't forgotten.. etc... I appreciate things like that, and for me, that is all it takes.

What drives me nuts is when a person owes something to someone, but puts that on the backburner while continuing the same activity - an artist who owes old commissions from years ago but keeps taking on new commissions anyway, or commissioners that owe money but keeps commissioning new art. It's not my job to tell other people how to manage their time and money but... come on, have some sense of priority. :P

Hi there, Mod here! :3

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Your post has been marked resolved now. I'm glad you got your money, and I thank you for not deleting the post.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you for not deleting the post! All it does is hurt the purpose and spirit of the community, and it tends to look far worse when a post is deleted than when it's left alone. I don't think people understand how badly deleting a post will backfire on them when they ask for it.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad everything has gotten resolved.

It's always unfortunate when someone has to resort to posting on here to get some kind of response from the person they've done business with.

[absturz.livejournal.com]

Wow, I guess I can consider myself lucky that they weren't able to keep up with the prices on my current auction. They stopped bidding a while ago