(no subject)

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

A while ago, there was a post here before about someone getting art of other people's character with ought permission. Because of this, it was suggested for artists to have in their TOS that they needed permission from the other person before doing any work on the art.

But, what do you do when the person wants to get it as a gift, surprised them so they don't want them to know about it and you don't readily see on their profile that they know each other, so there's no way to really know?

Comments

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Hum.
I think this is one of those "judgement" things. I mean, if the person who's char they want to commission looks like they're buds with the commissioner then it's probably fine.
Vs if they want adult art of someone and there's no sign that the other someone wants anything to do with the commissioner... red flag. Y'know?

[p3nsive.livejournal.com]

As long as it isn't of a mature/adult/fetishy nature, I wouldn't see anything wrong with doing it. I've had people commission me for pictures as Birthday/Christmas/etc gifts before and I didn't mind at all. If it was of a mature or otherwise questionable nature, however, I'd decline (or ask them to have the character's owner send me a note verifying that I have permission). c:

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I don't do adult work, at least not t'ill I'm old enough, but I know some people would get iffy if they get art of them, but they actually don't know each other.

Right now, I'm not sure if I should be careful with stuff like this, or just take them on anyways and deal with it if something happens.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I know you don't do adult work, but sounds like you are iffy about this person. You are the artist, and so you have the right to make the judgement call. If it bugs you, then I suggest to not do it.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, yes, I am iffy with this person. But also, most of the time you can tell the two people are friends or know each other you know? I don't see any connecting here at all, so it's why I've been firm with needing permission, but came here to find out what to do for next time.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

The only way I would want the other person's permission is if it was 'fettish' or 'adult' related. If it was clean, I don't see the harm. But that's just how I do it. IDK about others.

[blackberrypie.livejournal.com]

Thats pretty much how I see it, and how I have in my TOS. :)

[shadow-hazzard.livejournal.com]

I once had somebody ask for art as a gift to his "girlfriend" and when I posted it her real boyfriend showed up and flamed my page. Soooo yeah, I wouldn't do it unless there is visible communication in shouts or they are listed in each other's profiles, etc.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's why I was being careful about since, since I've seen things happen before with clean art, not just adult.

[ocelotish]

I'll second that this isn't as big of an issue for non-adult art (particularly if it's friendship rather than relationship). I think it's your call, but that there will be potential consequences if there is trouble.

However, at the end of the day, it's your policy and you're the one in the situation. If you're not comfortable doing it for this person or period, then don't do it.

[sovy.livejournal.com]

"But, what do you do when the person wants to get it as a gift, surprised them so they don't want them to know about it and you don't readily see on their profile that they know each other, so there's no way to really know?"

You can also try checking their watch lists to see if they are watching each other.

[teahound.livejournal.com]

This! Or check their page - if you look at my page for example, I have some of my closer pals mentioned shout-out style in my profile and journal header/footer.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I've done a search before with both character names to see if there's anything with the both of them

Or check recent journals of either party to see if they're friendly.

If not you can really push it like "Tell your friend it's a surprise and that they need to email me saying it's okay, sorry!"

I've had people who had no idea why they were emailing me email me like "Uhhhh I guess I'm getting a present and it's okay to use my character?"

[gel-wolf.livejournal.com]

Peronally, I've had people who I wasn't friends with commission art of me, and I find it...incredibly strange and uncomfortable. As an artist, I wouldn't do it until you get permission from the other person to draw their character. As far as how to get permission, I'd say have the other person send you a note/email confirming that it's ok to use their character. Not that it's any sort of legal issue or anything, but in a fandom where people represent themselves with their characters, it's generally polite to get permission first to avoid potential drama.

( also, and I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a jerk with this, but I think you meant out, not ought ^^;;; )

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Personally, I don't like using email unless I can can find they're email on their page, since there's no way for me to know it's really them.

I find it ironic that you point out a mistake but have one herself <3

[gearpony.livejournal.com]

If they're supposedly in a relationship or pretty friendly, you could ask if there are any images of them together already as proof? I know I always provide ref images of mine and my gf's character together, just incase, as proof we're together and its okay to draw us that way.

[goosestep-lion.livejournal.com]

You could have them do something like tell them to shout on the person's page in a familiar and friendly way (Like... not just something you'd say as a random passer by, but a greeting you'd use if you two were good friends) and see if the person replies to the commissioner or not? Or get them to ask the person they want art of to post something in the commissioner's shout box?

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't do it without permission, end of story. Adult, or not, I would not personally do it.

[mukichan.livejournal.com]

This. I wouldn't work on it if I can't find a clear indication that the two people know of each other on a friend-level or at least COMFORTABLE acquaintance-level.

I think that even if the watcher and artist talk alot in comments, you can usually read how they interact with each other and judge upon that.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

You could always ask the commissioner how they know each other, but they could just make something up.

Simply say to the commissioner that there's no evidence on their pages that they know each other so you'd need the other person's explicit permission - and who cares if it spoils the surprise, making sure you're not being an enabler to a creep is more important than secrecy.

With judgement calls like these it's best to trust your gut. The fact that you posted this entry in the first place suggests to me that the whole thing makes you uneasy.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

Well, there goes half of my planned commissions then. More than half of what I commission is for friends, which I order as gifts, more often than not, as surprises.

Artists I've worked with have never complained about this, but then again, there's really nothing to complain as I don't commission for adult art to begin with.

I understand where some are coming from, having dealt with the repercussions, but I'd not commission someone that asks me for written permission from the person I'm trying to secretly give a gift in the first place! And my friends know I tend to give gifts at random times, just for the hell of it.

[megumi-kitten.livejournal.com]

Ah but the keyword in your post is 'friends'...that means clear indication on your pages that you talk and whatnot. So, proof.

She's talking about there's no evidence this commisioner knows the person who's character they want with them in the picture.

[kriscynical.livejournal.com]

This may have been said already but I haven't read all 34 comments so please pardon me if I repeat somebody.

This isn't in my personal ToS, but most standard contracts from the Graphic Artist's Guild have a clause in them that holds the artist harmless for any illegal actions that are the result of something the client tells the artist to do. In this case it would protect you against producing artwork of another person's character without their permission. It's up to the client to be ethical in that regard since you can't always tell without personally knowing the client and the owner of the character.

[ankewehner.livejournal.com]

One possibility might be looking around their site to see if they post art that other people drew of their characters - that gives at least some indication that they don't mind other people drawing them.

Doesn't cover the special case of interaction with the commissioner's character, though.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Personally in that sort of situation, I just do the work, I'm paid to draw not to play mommy so I presume that most folks are telling the truth unless there's something really sketchy about it.

If someone shows up irate about the image for some reason, then they can take it up with the person who commissioned it because it's not my job to chase around checking up on things. Other than that, I'd take it down if there was a genuine complaint about it from the other person.

My only issue with gift commissions so far has been trouble with having to go through someone to get approvals from the other person since they knew the person was buying it. As a general rule, if the other party knows about it and wants to approve it as well, then I need contact details so I'm not waiting for someone else to get back to me about what they said.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

I'm inclined to agree with this.

It's not your responsibility to go chasing down who's friends with who. If you're getting paid to do a piece of art with no questionable or fetish content, then I personally would take the work.

From what I've seen, most people openly accept gift art of their characters, but if you really wanted to check, you could always go to their userpage and see if it's anywhere in their profile.

If the owner of the character expresses any dislike of the piece for whatever reason, simply advise them that you draw what you're paid to draw, and if they're very much offended, take it down.

Also, if this is something you're uncomfortable with doing, you can always revise your TOS to include this situation and whether you will or will not be taking commissions with these surrounding circumstances in the future.

[djdragonboy.livejournal.com]

Has the commissioner specifically said it's a gift for the other character's owner? Is there a way to contact the other character's owner and not reveal who the commissioner is but say that you have been requested to draw gift art of their character and ask permission? Might not completely spoil the surprise if they don't know who it's going to be from. You could always run this method by the commissioner first, too.

What would you do if someone commissions you to draw their character with Sonic/Renamon/Bugs Bunny/Vin Diesel? What if they want their character with a generic tauren/vulcan/gelert character? What would you do if either of these were an adult piece?

[growly.livejournal.com]

I would just do whatever I was paid to do unless it was really really creepy. *shrug* It's not really your business who is friends with who, there's no way to really know.

[shuukuchi.livejournal.com]

If the art's digital, would it spoil things if gifts were sent to the person the gift was for before they were given to the commissioner or put public? The commissioner could be told when, if they wanted to send a "Check your mail :P" message in advance, but then the commissioner wouldn't get the art if the gift recipient didn't want to/contacted the artist to say "argh, that person's a stalker". And then you'd just wait a few days or something to make it go public, in case the recipient was offended, and the commissioner wouldn't get the art if the recipient didn't agree, and any arguments between the commissioner and the recipient would stay there.

I don't do commissions though, so this is purely hypothetical and comes from inexperience.

[uozlulu.livejournal.com]

If you're that concerned, just shoot the person whose character you're uncertain of using a note asking if it's okay. Some people's characters are really a manifestation of their own selves, so they could be very picky about how it's used even if the pose is non-sexual in nature.

You don't want to get into a situation in which the other person finds out and is angry about it. You won't know they'll be okay with it until you ask, and the fact there's no proof they know each other that you can readily dig up should be a big red flag that you should ask in the first place. The person you're doing the gift for might be a person they don't want to be associated with in any way, shape, or form including OCs for all that is publicaly aware.

[dreamerdragoon.livejournal.com]

I've seen people buy gift commissions where all they do is pay the artist and let the gift recipient choose/manage exactly what they want. That always seemed the best gift commission option to me XD

Unfortunately, that doesn't really help you I suppose DX

[roocodendron.livejournal.com]

I would just go ahead and ask the other person if it's ok. I know that I'd like to know what someone is doing to my character, even if it's a surprise or a gift..one time someone drew my character and made her look like she was smoking pot, and that kinda bugged me though I was nice about it.

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

Please ask.

I say this from experience. A friend of a friend, someone who had never met me commissioned artwork of my friend's character and mine without saying anything.

A) I am very particular about my characters. As a result of people trying to be nice I have several sweet, thoughtful pieces of gift art; 90% of which don't actually capture the characters and that other artists use as bases when doing more artwork that I don't personally commission.

B) The person that "friend" commissioned was someone that I had very strong feelings about as an artist. Had I been asked before hand I would never have given permission for someone to support her through the use of my characters.

As a result I posted a note on my page about asking first, but not everyone realizes ahead of time that they'll need to.

So, mini-rant aside, surprise gift or not there are people out there who would feel strongly toward knowing ahead of time about a commission as a present.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

I know I'm chiming in a bit late, but the way I've handled this in the past is that I ask the commissioner to have the other party send me a note on FA (so I know it's coming straight from them) with a blanket permission to draw their character with the commissioner's character (and specified it would be adult if the commissioner was asking for an adult pic). I know this spoils the surprise a little (and I apologized for that in my request), but they still don't know -what- you're going to draw.

The two times I've had to do this, all parties involved were very understanding and even thanked me for checking. I think it even heightens the final surprise, because there's all this anticipation of "I know I'm getting something, but what will it beeee??!"

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

The reason I posted this was because that is what I told them and explained and it took a long time, after much trying to convince me to do it anywas, t'ill they finally got the other to give me permission. Suspicious, but I got it in the end.

To be honest, there's so many different opinions that I'm not sure what to do for future commissions. Should I take on any work since I shouldn't have to run around for permission and deal with it later, or should I put precautions and maybe have commissioners get irritated by it.