Avsun Mascots

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

Who: Avsun Mascots

Where: http://avsun.livejournal.com/   http://avsun.deviantart.com/   http://www.furaffinity.net/user/avsun/

What: Foam head base of a toothless look-alike (without the newt features).

My side of the story: I had sent a question e-mail about a foam head base on September 14^th, got it worked out and a quote for 125$ on the 15^th. I sent them a down payment on September 15th 2010, they had confirmed that I had a spot on the list. On September 17th 2010, I sent them the rest of the payment seeing as how communication was still good. They said they would have it done "around next month." So I assume that meant by the end of October to mid November some time, perfectly fine by me.
On the 18^th, I got a mass e-mail about a new paypal address to send money to, but had already sent my money to the first. They said in the e-mail this would be fine. I heard nothing from them until October 3^rd. This was another mass e-mail, only this time about mass e-mails and how we are not to reply to those. I hadn’t heard anything from them until I sent an e-mail asking them about the status on November 8^th.
Got reply on the 9^th with a picture of the head concept and saying they moved on with the project anyhow. They had mentioned getting glass eyes, which would in turn have me send them more money. Turns out this fell through and I did not send them more money, so they were going to stick with the regular toony eyes I opted for in the first place.  
A few e-mails went back and forth and communication was fair until December 21^st, which was only them replying to the LJ comments I posted on one of their posts. This was them giving me their phone number, yet again. I waited patiently, attempted to call them once or twice without being able to connect through.
I sent them another e-mail on February 5^th 2011, asking them about my commission, it being far past due. I got no reply. I send them another e-mail on March 1^st, asking yet again. I have yet to hear from them.

I never got any e-mails explaining the delays that others have gotten, so I have been left entirely in the dark. I have filed a dispute through paypal, though it is indeed too late. It still gives them record that this person is not providing product for payment. I also called paypal, asking them what could be done. They have told me that there is an “internal investigation” going on for this person, seeing as others have filed as well. Seeing as others have filed, the gentleman on the phone had told me that it MAY be possible to get my money back due to their track record. I honestly doubt I have much of a chance to get my money back in any way, but I will certainly be trying.  

Proof: http://www.flickr.com/photos/62066370@N02/

Edit: I broke up the paragraphs to maybe make it easier to read for some people.

Comments

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

They had mentioned getting glass eyes, which would in turn have me send them more money. Turns out this fell through and I did not send them more money, so they were going to stick with the regular toony eyes I opted for in the first place.
So if I'm reading this right... you initially ordered toony eyes. They claimed that you had to send them more money for a feature you didn't even order? What? That's not how it works!

These guys seem to be one massive horror story judging by all these posts. It's good Paypal is on this! Good luck getting your money back!

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

They were trying to get me to get the resin eyes over the toony ones, claiming they think it would look better. which is might, but I had already paid for the toony eyes and then they wanted another 25$ for the resin eyes. Either way, its still not right. They had told me Monoyasha denied their request for the resin eyes, so I did not have to send them more money and that the money I sent for the toony eyes in the first place was just fine.

However, after getting a set price and me having already paid them in full, I don't think it was right of them to continuously offer me other things to get more money. Not to mention, its as if they were doing it to keep me off their back about getting it done. They never once mentioned how late the head was, just that "We will send you updates soon!" sort of lines.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I really hope Paypal pulls through for everyone. It's so upsetting it even got to this point, but maybe this will finally settle things.

[goosestep-lion.livejournal.com]

Would it be possible to break this up into paragraphs... It's sort of a jumbled wall of text that I keep getting lost in.. T.T""

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

I broke it up some, is it easier to read now?

[goosestep-lion.livejournal.com]

Thank you =D!

[quaylak.livejournal.com]

You know what bothers me the most about all these posts against this studio?

From flarveon on the last post (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/448560.html?thread=15822384#t15822384) about them: "I noted them just this morning on FA to see if they would respond, and I got an almost immediate response to my idea with a quote and how to pay :/"

I didn't think her comment received enough attention. So apparently, they're not only still open for commissions regardless of everything that's been going on recently, they've also being quite prompt in replying to quote requests the same day people contact them. What happened to their crappy internet connection? Seemed to work fine when they thought they'd be getting some more money.

I think that's proof that their studio and business is nothing but a scam. They put out a couple of examples to draw attention to themselves and make it look like they're being productive. They claimed to be "Professionals." They claimed to be "Cheap." They used all the right words to bring in business, yet they have nothing to show for it months later. And while their studio is now under fire for not finishing projects/issuing refunds/communicating, they're still trying to take on work without hesitation or acknowledgment of their current customers or their concerns/requests for updates.

I think something needs to be done to keep them from accepting more work until their previous obligations are satisfied. This is terrible and beyond unacceptable to me. :\

[badkitty.livejournal.com]

i could not have said it better.

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

that's really aggravating

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

Not to mention, their latest journal on FA has a lot of people questioning where their commissions are and when they'd be getting them, with no response from Avsun... And yet, suddenly, there are a good few hidden comments and all of a sudden one user's been given pictures of their finished head.

They are very actively avoiding the vast, vast majority of their commissioners and jumping on the first person who sounds like they'd be willing to send them more money. :/

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

Ohgosh, this so much. But how can we stop them?

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

*cough*StarFinder*cough*

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

They ignore certain scam reports (e.g. SF) but when it's someone less popular or well-known, they have been seen to jump on it. I think they might help out with Avsun.

[flarveon.livejournal.com]

Thanks Quaylak. I was quite shocked that I recieved such a reply so quickly!

[quaylak.livejournal.com]

No problem. I think your "test" to see if they would reply was quite revealing and definitely sends a clear message to me and the people waiting to hear from them. Your comment was sort of buried in the other post, so I wanted to be sure people saw it this time!

And apparently, Prefur is unaware of them still giving out quotes (http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2246266/) regardless of everything that's been going on recently. I feel bad for her and understand she's trying to defend her friends/apprentices, but I think it'd probably be best for her to stay out of it and let them handle this situation on their own.

[flarveon.livejournal.com]

Prefur is completely unaware. I know my friend was updated right around the time of that emergency operation one of the Avsun crew had, and emailed them after seeing all these A_B posts, they have not responded to him but responded to me when I noted them.

I do think it is best for Prefur to stay out, I mean.. If Avsun believe they are their own business, they will deal with this themselves, not run back to 'mum' to help them.

Personally I just want to see my friend get his suit, don't want him out of pocket for it all :/

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

She's so NOT unaware: in her FA journal TWO DAYS ago, she says "closed for commissions: go to Avsun instead".

Prefur is totally aware that Avsun is open for commissions, and equally aware that they have been having a lot of problems lately: she's read and replied to their latest journal with all the complaints, and has got several emails to her personal address because Avsun haven't been replying.

If my friends were 7 months behind on their work and playing catchup not just for that but due to illness, AND had poor internet AND had just moved home, the last thing I would be recommending is that MORE people commission them

[borderdog.livejournal.com]

I think that is like a sticky signature thing on all of her journal posts.. she really should remove it. :\

I also think she might not have known what is going on, but she doesn't make herself look very good with her "just call them!" responses and facepalms.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

after reading those comments she made, i hope she knows to distance herself from avsun before she goes down with the ship :p defending them now in light of all of this evidence and all of the unhappy customers isn't smart :p

also, I HATE TALKING ON THE PHONE. period. its not fair that a customer should be expected to call them.

[quaylak.livejournal.com]

Dude, me too. I would never in a million years call someone so I can commission them. Wtf. I hate having to call and order a pizza and deal with Papa John's, let alone trying to describe my character to a furry so I can commission a fursuit worth hundreds of dollars. @_@

Personally, if you don't have access to the internet, I don't think you should be running a business. Not in this day and age, and especially not in the furry fandom. I don't see how you can anyway. Here's hoping they learn from this. :\

[flarveon.livejournal.com]

Woah... She DID mention it in a journal. I had not checked them D:

And I agree with borderdog and likeshine completely on this. Shes a good maker herself, I don't want to see her go down too.

[quaylak.livejournal.com]

"If my friends were 7 months behind on their work and playing catchup not just for that but due to illness, AND had poor internet AND had just moved home, the last thing I would be recommending is that MORE people commission them"

Yeaaaah you've got a point there. :\ And I very much disagree that if--according to Prefur--their commissioners would "just call," all of this would be fixed. It's like they're trying to shift the blame to the customer for lack of communication, ya know? Talking on the phone is a no-go for me, as like you said, you can't keep a record of what was discussed unless it's recorded. And after the owner of Avsun contacted that one commissioner in the last post and had a break-down over the phone? Hell no would I want him having my number. And besides, not much was "resolved" in that conversation beyond them telling the commissioner he wouldn't be getting his money back. :\

And I can't help but wonder...how long does it seriously take to get the internet hooked up? They were having internet issues back when they first started taking commissions (which was another red flag to me). How can it take seven months to have a reliable internet connection established? And how in the world can they afford to sign a lease on a new commercial studio space, but not have the funds to get the internet hooked up at home so they can run their business? Something's not right. Especially when their internet connection works just fine when replying to quotes and "how can I pay" e-mails. :\

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

It's frustrating to have them insist so much on the phone communication. And it doesn't help that Prefur is also pushing the issue for people to call them even more.

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

Funny thing is I emailed Avsun again and explained to them I have already began involving paypal and that I would either like the item I am owed or a full refund, otherwise more action will be taken.

They informed me that the head was on the way BACK TO THEM from Prefur. So yes, you are correct. She is more then aware of what is going on I'd say. Also far more involved then anyone might guess.

[lacy.livejournal.com]

In this day in age "internet is down" is such a lame excuse. :/ Internet is relatively affordable, and if it's down it generally takes less than a day to be fixed. And there's always wifi hotspots, and cell phones, etc., etc.

Moreocver, how are they using Twitter if they lack internet? You need either a phone with data plan or the internet, in which case emails should be answerable.

[borderdog.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they've been using twitter since the first beware was posted, which means every one of their customers should have gotten some kind of contact from them by now. Most of their updates are coming from a computer too it seems, not a phone.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Actually, you CAN use Twitter without a data plan involving the internet. I have to use Twitter from my phone only right now as the computer I'm using (both of mine have died), is old (Win 2000), and ~*NEW TWITTER*~ doesn't work with IE5.

Now if they're popping links everywhere - shenanigans.

[yoka-neko.livejournal.com]

i think posting journals about these people, like starfinder and avsun on FA would help deter custom and avoid more scams. But would that be considered as harrasment? Its seems to be the only thing to do if the admins wont ban.
Or even just advertise about this LJ site, id chip in to help pay for a banner.

[sisterskift.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is acceptable. Take technicolor_pie's journal on Kavi for example.

[hamburger.livejournal.com]

That is true, my journal on Kavi was never removed. You never can tell, however. Since no mod commented on it, it's also possible none ever saw it.

[sisterskift.livejournal.com]

Nah, when I filed my report against her I included your journal and at least two mods saw it.

It may be because you weren't like "THIS PERSON IS HELLSPAWN"

I got suspended for "namedropping" once but that was because people flooded the guy's shouts and mentioned me. Whoops!

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

Slander or libel would be un-truthful things.. right?
If it is true and not random, then it should be allowed.. right? I wouldn't see why not..

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

dunno, i had a friend who linked to a post here, told their story, NEVER mentioned the artist by name on FA and it was removed by trpdwarf for "harrassment" :p

its like, oh, we'll enforce this rule today, but not this one.
its bullshit.

[torikonero.livejournal.com]

Although I am not directly involved with this, I do believe it is time to gather everyone together who has been wronged by this company and go to the FA staff. If we present one concise, evidence-heavy note or e-mail (with links to here and the fursuit LJ), they should hopefully do something. At the very least they will be made aware, so when in the future more people have this happen and we send more notes with good evidence, they will question their previous decision to not ban the company. This is such an egregious example of scamming, they would be hard-pressed to come up with an argument for NOT banning them.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

That would be wonderful, I really want to do something.

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

The Friday thing was from me. They wanted me to go with resin eyes, so I would have to send them another 25$, after I had already paid them 25$ for the toony eyes they were suppose to make. I told them I had to wait till Friday so they didn't harass me about getting the resin eyes. Yes, it was monoyasha's eyes, which are very nice. But I didn't think that after we had set up the price it was ok for them to suddenly offer me something else, either.

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

I deleted the previous comment because it rested on a misinterpretation of an email, my mistake

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Please do not delete comments in the future. Next time ask a Moderator to screen.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

I love how they emailed me a few days ago, basically saying WE'RE NOT SCAMMERS DON'T WORRY, "We at Avsun hope to keep you up to date and well-informed. We recognize the need to improve our online presence, including e-mail correspondence. We will never be out of touch during business hours, and you can count on that."

Yet I sent them a new email, still unanswered. YES, they'll NEVER be out of touch. /sarcasm

[demons-haven101.livejournal.com]

When did you send them an e-mail? I sent them one on the 24th and got an answer within about three and a half hours. Of course, I told them I have Paypal involved and also hinted that I will take further action if something isn't done about the situation. Currently, their final deadline is this Thursday, the 28th.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

I emailed them the same day they emailed me, a few minutes later. Last thursday.
Still no response. They haven't emailed me about my commission since December.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

"We're going to send out mass emails so that we keep people in touch, BUT DON'T RESPOND TO THEM." Uh... What? How do you stay in contact by email if you can't respond to their emails? Oh wait, BY PHONE! Because that works so much better! /sarcasm

[origamigryphon.livejournal.com]

And then when we DO call you on the phone, we'll talk your ear off for the first 15 minutes telling you our sob story RL issues as to WHY things aren't perfect!

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

That's how the pros do it, right? :D

Sorry for the snark, but boy oh boy... They've got themselves into a big old mess and they should start digging themselves out before it gets BAD.

[holydust.livejournal.com]

Goodness gracious. Even though I'm not ever gonna be in the market for one, I would never, ever do business with these guys after what I've seen repeatedly in this journal. Like every other thread in my Google Reader is about Avsun. Truly incredible.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

i'm still stuck on them insisting to speak on the phone and having the customers call.

i hate speaking on the phone. email works just fine.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... Seems like Prefur's come to take their side as far as not having internet. @.@

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2246266/#cid:18385339