(no subject)

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

EDIT: Thanks for the info guys. I decided to decline the offer.

I just got an email from someone and I'm honestly not sure what to think of it as I've never gotten such an email before.

"Dear Neko,

Hello my name is ___ and I work for a documentary film company in Canada called Fanboy Confessional Inc. /  Markham Street Films Inc.

I am contacting you because we would like to ask permission to use the attached illustration in a documentary we are currently producing.

It is a 6 part TV series for the Space channel in Canada (similar to Syfy in the US) that celebrates the best of fan culture. Each episode follows self-professed Fanboys (and Fangirls) – pop culture enthusiasts and aficionados - as they navigate the inner-workings of their sci-fi worlds. The objective is to celebrate these people as ultimate fans and to highlight the DIY, community-building aspect of these creative subcultures.
I would like to stress that this is a fun, lite portrait, with absolutely no negative commentary being shed on anyone, in any way. It's a celebration of this man and the great work he does.

I look forward to hearing from you.

All the best,"

The picture they attached is a small version of this one: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5651415/
I'm not sure what to think. Is it a scam, should I say no or yes? This picture was a commission, so should I be getting permission from the commissioner as well?

Comments

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

That's... Interesting. O.o

I mean, it's nice that the show puts emphasis on portraying these sorts of things into a positive light, but at the same time... If they are going to be doing an episode about furries I really would be concerned about, well... Who from the fandom is actually volunteering to do it.

I think whether saying no or yes is really your call; personally, before making any decisions on it I'd say message the commissioner you did that picture for (which is really cute, by the way!). Who knows? Maybe they're the one volunteering with the show and that's why the person who emailed you is asking about that particular pic?

[creative-excess.livejournal.com]

Well, Markham Street Films has a website and it appears to be legit:

http://www.markhamstreetfilms.com/fanboy.html

Whether it's an actual representative of that company or someone simply using their name is another matter.

If at all possible, I'd ask them for more details about what the show will encompass, how your image will be used, etc.--specifics that can help you make your decision. If they're not willing to spend the time convincing you that this will be a valuable use of your work, then I'd say forget about it.

[ocelotish]

First of all, I definitely would ask the commissioner before you say yes. You do still own the copyright on it, but it would be kind of a jerk move to have this picture of a person's personal character be aired on TV without letting them be in on the decision. I'd imagine that would lose you a ton of business.

Next, if you are seriously thinking about doing it, ask them to provide a contract for you to review. If they're legit, it'll go into whether it can be shown on TV, online media, etc. and just generally look like a contract as opposed to "Xan I use this? Yay, thanks."

Personally, I would be hesitant as they don't seem to be paying you, and the way they introduce themselves. You're Canadian, and that's generally on your userinfo. Why would they be explaining a Canadian TV channel to a Canadian by comparing to a channel in the US?

[ocelotish]

*can I use this

I can't type.

[film2edit.livejournal.com]

They did contact you verses stealing it / just adding it to their video and it's not porn. It's a well done illustration.

Looking at their promo video it doesn't look bad.

[angeling.livejournal.com]

I only have one bit of advice to give, and it may not be the most helpful piece (I do second what celarania said re: asking the commissioner, at least):

No contract and no pay, no permission.

It may seem like a really cool thing that someone's interested enough in your work to use it on a project of their own (and may seem like it'll bring exposure for you), but if they're not willing to form a contract and, more importantly, pay you for it, they're just looking for free work (and if they refuse to even discuss a price you can be sure they'll move on to another artist, and then another, and then another, until they find someone willing to let them use it for free). And given they claim to be a legit company and should by all rights have a budget for their documentary, that's simply not acceptable.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I forgot to think about pay. How much would something cost?

[angeling.livejournal.com]

It depends an awful lot on the scope and exposure the documentary will get. Generally the more people viewing, the more it costs. Costs even more if the documentary will see any form of commercial distribution.

Unfortunately, since I live in Brazil, I have no idea what the usual rates for something like this would be where you live. You can try asking someone else near you with experience, if you know anyone, or you could try seeking advice from a copyrights lawyer/specialist who can probably give you a better idea of what price range you're looking at (and what kind of contract would be legit and what wouldn't).

[ocelotish]

I'd check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/Graphic-Artists-Handbook-Pricing-Guidelines/dp/0932102158

It'll give you guidelines. If you need it, I can check out my copy later this week. It depends on the scope of distribution - medium, geographic area, amount of time, exclusive, etc.

[angeling.livejournal.com]

Also some extra advice: if I were you, even without knowing how much you'd ask for, I'd just casually ask them how much they can offer for the rights to distributing the picture - if they give no reply, try to BS you into dropping the idea of being paid, or offer something ridiculously low (like below $100 - unless their budget is really really tight they should be offering more than that no matter where you live), bail out.

A lot of businesses seem to think, for some reason or another, they're doing you a favor by displaying your work for free. Keep in mind that if they messaged you it's because they need your work, not the other way around. Coming from an Art major background I know it can be really tempting to take this kind of offer in the name of getting exposure (in hopes it'll get you more work since it's so hard to breach into the market), but you just end up setting a terrible precedent of working for free, and attracting more people who want to pay you with "exposure".

[angeling.livejournal.com]

Last comment from me, I promise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

This man says it all imo. He's talking about writing, but it fits for art, music, et cetera.

[crssafox.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you're saying here. The only time I would let someone use something for free is if/when it can generate revenue for me. I sent a wolf tail to a children's magazine a few years ago, at the request of their editor, because they wanted to do a piece on DIY Halloween costumes. I didn't ask for payment because I knew it would bring me exposure (and indeed it did, right after I dropped my day job to work full time in costumes) because they agreed to print my web site in the magazine, and linked to it from their own web site.

But using your work in a documentary, television show, movie, etc. where there is no way for them to feasibly link back to you and it most certainly won't directly generate revenue (it's just another "cool thing" to add to your list of credits, really) should definitely cost money for the company/organization using the work.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with this!

They should be paying you for your time and comping ALL EXPENSES such as travel, food, etc.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Wait, why travel, food etc? It didn't sound like they were inviting me there to interview, just use the picture.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Oohh, I was thinking they wanted interview. Whoops!

Perhaps you could talk to them about doing a similar image for their show, and price it like you would a commission where you give them distribution rights?

[jurann.livejournal.com]

This sounds REEEAAAALLY suspicious...

[msaether.livejournal.com]

i can at least vouch that they are a real thing. space runs this kind of stuff a lot and they're a big presence at toronto conventions.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

From a personal standpoint, I'd definitely ask the commissioner if it were okay first.

Although it's your art, it's still their character, and I personally would be a little miffed if a piece of my character randomly showed up somewhere without permission from me.

[gizagiza.livejournal.com]

I knew this sounded familiar. This company came onto the AnthroCon forums two years ago asking for interview subjects. After looking through some of the projects they've produced, this was declined very quickly as their senstationalism came apparent...

http://www.anthrocon.org/node/4681/furry-fandom-tv-show-seeks-interview-subjects

I'd be extremely wary of these people if I were you.

[gizagiza.livejournal.com]

Actually, to correct myself, if it were me, I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Oh snap, I totally remember you linking me to this a long time ago!

Yeah, I'd totally agree with what gizagiza says -- say no, stay veeeery far away. If nothing else, inform them that it's a commissioned piece that isn't up for sale, licensing, or distribution of any kind... at least, not by you. Hopefully they'll move on.

[ocelotish]

Actually it is, unless the rights are specifically sold to the commissioner. If you paint a pet portrait, the client owns the original, the artist owns the copyright and could publish it.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Apologies -- you have no idea how hard my "oh shit"-o-meter got pegged when I revisited that link. :P

I stand corrected.

[ocelotish]

Oh I didn't mean to scold! :) It's a common misconception, particularly in fandom.

And I understand that the link might have just induced rage. ;)

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I'm in agreement. Their style of shows seems quite clearly exploitative and personally I wouldn't want anything associated with me within a 10 foot pole of such sensationalist media. It's up to you SNeko, but from an outside perspective the potential exposure really doesn't seem worth it.

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

Wow, thanks for posting that link! I'd never heard of this company before so I guess I assumed too much from just the email without actually looking up more about them. xD;;

[pyat.livejournal.com]

Having been interviewed by them at length, I can say they were actually very respectful and polite. Michael McNamara and his wife run the company, and both have won Gemini awards for their documentaries.

Yes, the actual titles of some past projects sound weird, but watch the actual clips. The three projects mentioned are light-hearted body positive documentaries for Vision TV and similar outlets, not exploitative schlock for basement trolls. For example, their documentary, Stacked Like Me is described as:

“Stacked Like Me is an upbeat but honest look at the problems faced by large-breasted women in an increasingly sexualized society.” -Toronto Sun"

The person on the AC forum was rather selective choose the titles, too. Michael and his wife have also produced two seasons of an award winning show about outsider art called "Driven by Vision", a documentary about the history of radio, about feminism in Iran...

http://www.markhamstreetfilms.com/productions.html

The folks at Markham have been extremely respectful about seeking permission, etc., and respecting boundaries and privacy.

[razzek.livejournal.com]

I would ask for more details about how furries are going to be portrayed in the episode specifically. If it sounds like it might put you in a bad light or make you uncomfortable, just politely decline.

[holydust.livejournal.com]

Wow, I am REALLY glad that you asked here, now that I've read through the comments...

unfortunately, because a lot of artists love the idea of exposure, these guys are going to get someone whether we like it or not. :( They always do.

As a non-furry but supportive of the people in this fandom, it steams me up how easy it is for exploitative media to get a hold of any person for any reason and then tweak the results to suit their own ratings.

If their past "gems" are any indication, their coverage of your fandom is not going to be sugar-sweet. Best to tell them you'll get exposure in your own way -- one that doesn't throw your friends and family under the bus!

[unclekage.livejournal.com]

Just to add to the conversation: http://unclekage.livejournal.com/122924.html

[supershycritter.livejournal.com]

Some person had went on the Tyra Banks show, I remember it because the family I had that knew I was furry suddenly blew up my phone and was not too pleased. It was a girl and she was a f-...well, you know. The sort who did adukt things in suit. Heck, her murrsuit wasn't even decent looking and she said all manners of terrible things herself, wasn't tricked into anything and was more than happy to tell everyone furry fandom is all a bunch of perverts and everyone likes kid porn and porn and mass 'yiffing' and oi...I never before hated someone so much.

[supershycritter.livejournal.com]

Bah can't edit...but apparently that is what family got from it. I never personally watched the show and certainly decided I never would after.

[unclekage.livejournal.com]

Chewfox, I believe. She was quite unapologetic about it and even indignant that people did not admire her frank and honest defense of the fandom.

[skirtandzy.livejournal.com]

If I remember correctly, besides her indignancy, she had said that she has specifically asked Tyra to ask certain questions, only to deny them. Because yeah, people will remember the you saying 'no' more than they will the question to begin with.

This is why furries need to think before they speak to media.


And I comend you, Neko, for declining them.

[pyat.livejournal.com]

Repeating a comment from earlier in this thread...

Having been interviewed by Markham at length (I was familiar with their work before I agreed to it ), I can say they were very respectful and polite. Michael McNamara and his wife run the company, and both have won Gemini awards for their documentaries. Gemini awards are Canadian English-language TV awards.

Yes, the actual titles of some past projects sound weird, but watch the actual clips. The three projects mentioned are a trio of light-hearted body positive documentaries for TV Ontario (think PBS), not exploitative schlock for Spike or MTV. For example, their documentary, Stacked Like Me was reviewed as:

“Stacked Like Me is an upbeat but honest look at the problems faced by large-breasted women in an increasingly sexualized society.” -Toronto Sun"

The person on the AC forum was rather selective in their choice of the titles, too. Michael and his wife have also produced two seasons of an award winning show about outsider art called "Driven by Vision", a documentary about the history of radio, about feminism in Iran...

http://www.markhamstreetfilms.com/productions.html

The folks at Markham have been extremely respectful about seeking permission, etc., and respecting boundaries and privacy. I had several long phone calls with Micheal in advance, and when they finally came for filming, their questions were respectful and engaging.

Also, FWIW, I am a newspaper reporter and have worked in journalism at a national and local level since 1999.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

I would refuse, because every time furries are presented to the public it turns into a fiasco.