Beware - Tigsie

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

 Who: Tigsie (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/tigsie)

Where: Furry Weekend Atlanta 2011 - Artist Alley

What: I commissioned a traditional-colored badge and a Pokemon-themed water-color ACEO card. Paid IN FULL with cash, and given a hand-written receipt (ACEO card was done on separate receipt, and beside the matter at hand).

When: Furry Weekend Atlanta 2011 (March 19th, 2011) - May 25th, 2011

After commissioning this artist back in March, I waited a bit and was actually prepared to wait for a good solid few months since I thought her art seemed decent enough, and well worth the wait. The problems with her actually started when she posted a list of commissions that she was either working on, or had finished, and she needed the home address' of the people that commissioned them so she could send them out. She put my Pokemon ACEO card on that list. Meaning, that even though she had the address previously, she seemed to have forgotten the ACEO belonged to me, along with the badge of my character.

I did what she asked in her public journal, and sent her a private note telling her my home address and reminding her it went along with the badge I ordered.

...No reply...

A few weeks went by, she posted a couple more journals, and the ACEO remained on the list (now remember, the problem is actually with the badge, but these details are just to prove her bad communication). I sent her another message, and just left it at that, hoping that she'd get it eventually. Also, she normally posts what she has done for each commission so far, and mine was marked as "inked" for the longest time. Once again, I had no problem with her taking her time on it, since I wanted it to be good.

My friends had gone to Elliot's (May 20th - 22nd), which I knew Tigsie would be there because she had mentioned it in her latest journal, but didn't think to ask them to check up on anything for myself. I got a call during the 22nd after the con was over from one of my friends that he had seen Tigsie, and my badge was done, and she was using it as a display piece. Now, I'm sort of sceptical here... What artist doesn't let her customer know she's finished the product and doesn't tell them she's using it as a display/example piece? Either way, I brushed it off.

A couple days later (May 25th) she posts her new batch of badges onto her FA account, and mine was included as the third one from the left on the top row. Immediately, I noticed it looked off. She had completely forgotten several important (simple) details that I ALWAYS include on my character (green-tipped mohawk and thick distinctive beard), and I've never had to correct other artists on because they couldn't be blamed on "different styles" (also, it looked nothing like a bear, and more like a weasel or canine). Seeing as she STILL hasn't replied to any of the previous messages I sent her, I posted a comment publicly on the actual submission that she ruined the design, to which she FINALLY replied to me, telling me to note her privately on how she did it wrong.

I noted her, as I was asked, and told what she had gotten wrong (but now that I think about it, I also failed to mention other details she missed- including how she drew headphones on him even though at the con I asked her to not include the headphones in one of the three ref pics I sent her). I get a reply back, straight up telling me she will refund the money, without even giving me another option to go by. I honestly just wanted it corrected (even though I know it's a bit difficult, being a traditional piece and not digital), and when I mentioned it she told me she'd be leaving the country soon and wouldn't be able to get to it. Not wanting to go through the same merry-go-round of insecurity, I told her to just issue me a refund as she promised (and even mentioned for her to take the fees since I paid in full with cash at the convention, and not originally through paypal).

Her answer to the last message was that she would "trace" the original image to do it over before she left on vacation (meaning she'd rush through it and hope I'd be happy with it), and I simply told her to forget it and just to handle my refund as she offered previously. Totally ignoring my request to not stick me with the paypal fees, she had done it anyway, leaving me missing $1.37. I know it doesn't seem like much, but it's only fair that she take the fees herself since it was HER mistake and I'm not getting anything out of it (she had warned me that if I got the refund I would not receive the badge). When I noted her back, telling her to replace the money missing and pay the additional fee so I'd have the exact $30 paid for the badge, she plain refused me and told me she was making me pay shipping for the ACEO card I commissioned. She NEVER mentioned any additional shipping fees, and even told me when I asked her at the convention that they were covered in the base price.

She ended it by telling me that the conversation would go no further, she would ship out my ACEO in the morning, and that she was still keeping my badge to use for examples (though I asked her in a previous note to NOT do that or to at least remove the name since I do not want myself associated with her any further).

I have never encountered such unprofessional behavior from an artist, and I hope any who reads this will take caution.

SCREENSHOTS: 
pics.livejournal.com/yujoben/pic/0000h21h NOTES AND COMMENTS
pics.livejournal.com/yujoben/pic/0000fb4f RECEIPT

References Given:
www.furaffinity.net/view/4872393/
www.furaffinity.net/view/5089389/

Finished Badge:
pics.livejournal.com/yujoben/pic/0000gchy

EDIT: I understand that my messages seemed bitchy. They certainly were not meant that way until she made me pay the fees on paypal for her mistake. I can understand her deducting money for the work done if I cancelled for my own reasons, but it was HER fault, she didn't follow the references and ignored all tips I gave her when I commissioned her originally. Also, because a lot of people seem to be missing this tidbit of info, I paid IN CASH, full $30, so if she was offering me a full refund, there is no reason to stick me with fees.

Please remember the problem here that I'm trying to point out is not centered on her inability to follow references, but her horrible customer service because of bad communication and forcing me to lose money (no matter how big or small the amount) when I am not getting anything from it (for those that say I have the scan of the badge- it is tiny, and I don't want it to begin with).

It was her idea first to refund me, not mine, and when I told her I wanted it fixed she offered me two other options which did not appeal. Options are meant to be CHOSEN, so don't hate me because I picked one in the end. The first option was for me to wait another few months while she went on vacation, and I really was afraid of dealing with this whole situation again. It is very nerve-wracking to just be completely snubbed by a person you have paid money to for a service. The other option was a tracing (whether it looked professional or not), and she planned on doing a rush job in a couple of days before leaving on yet another vacation, and I don't want something rushed and uncared for. So, I took the refund in the end.

Any of you who are tight on money as it is and splurged on ONE thing for yourself at a convention would expect it done right. I was forward with her, and treated her the way I want my commissioners to treat me. I hate it when someone says anything along the lines of "Um...well...it's really neat... There's just a couple details off...but it's fine. I like it!" If done enough, I become upset with them and just tell them to inform me straight-up what I need to fix, because I WILL do my best to correct it. To sum this up, I didn't think of her as a lesser person, an underling, or an art slave. I think being blunt with people is a high form of respect. Anything less, I feel I am doing the person wrong.

Comments

[filthy-animal.livejournal.com]

As another artist myself, your attitude to her during your notes comes off quite aggressive and accusatory and makes me weary of you as a commissioner, more than her as an artist. :/

I sat near her at a table during Elliott's this last weekend for a good hour or so, and she was oh-so-lovingly tracing over and re-drawing a badge for a person who had been heartbroken to have their recently-received badge stomped on (and thus bent up, destroying the laminate/image) by a drunk person at the con. She was doing a wonderful job fixing it for him at no extra charge to him, when she didn't actually have to do so (as it wasn't her own mistake)-- so it's a shame that you accused her artwork quality to be unacceptable due to "tracing" over her own artwork. You didn't appear to give her much of a chance to fix the problem. In fact, when you mentioned you would have rather had it fixed, and she agreed to do just that, you declined and asked for a refund anyway. It seems very unclear what you actually wanted from her once you were shown the incorrectly-drawn badge, and it feels more like you took her mistakes with your badge much-too-personally. Perhaps if you worked on your attitude, she would have responded to you better and you would have had your badge lovingly re-done and fixed at no additional charge.

It is unfortunate that she didn't get your character right on the first go and that she seemed to have issues responding correctly at first, but if you had come to her about the whole situation more politely and patiently, perhaps things could have gone better for you both. I highly doubt she did those things to upset you-- she was probably just overwhelmed with her other work and general life-stuffs. Please remember that these artists are other people just like yourself, and likely are not out to get you and would like for you to be happy with the end-result of their work. :c

[gaaralover85.livejournal.com]

I can't ^THIS hard enough.

[megumi-kitten.livejournal.com]

Seeing the badge and then your refs...wow, that is quite a diffrence.

I'm not going to go into detail about other things, but I can understand getting upset at one annoyance aftera nother building up.

I hope it all works out for you, and she shuld alter the badge if she's ging to display it, since even if wrong, it DOES have your name on it!

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

It looks to me like she used entirely this ref: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4872393/ (the Glee one). It has the headphones and given the green border round the character, in the same colour as the hair, it's possible she thought that was a glow effect or something. I can definitely see the badge as being a derivitive work of that reference. It did come out wrong, but I wouldn't say it was extreme negligence if that was the case.

Regardless, I found your attitude pretty bad in this exchange. Her communication was shoddy but tantruming over a Paypal fee? Seriously? Also I don't get why you act as though "traced work" was somehow inferior - anyone who knows how art works knows that traced images look fine. Often artists will use a lightbox to re-trace a sketch or mockup several times to get to the final. It seemed like you were just being awkward.

I think you should use this exchange to reflect on how you dealt with the artist, as much as how they dealt with you.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

something similar happened to me, she seemed to have used a single reference for one of my commissions, so the final result did not accurately display all the details of my character, i still felt satisfied however as she gave me a free upgrade on what i commissioned since she went past the original deadline.

that being said, id commission her again, her aceo cards are ridiculously cute...

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

While I do think the communication and time is her own fault, I'm gonna agree with above about the attitude.

I'm personally a very forgetful person and I've forgotten the most obvious things before. It happens. But all the commissioner needs to do is tell me and I'd fix it straight away as it's my mistake, not the commissioners. But sometimes the way they ask, it's better to just refund them.

Other then that, when it comes to the tracing, it's actually a really normal thing to do. A lot of people say you should keep a sketch to redo traditional pieces that have mistakes. But sometimes you don't have the sketch, so you trace over the original. If you think about it, you're tracing you're sketch pretty much, so it's not too different to go over inks instead.

I'm not going to harp on you for the attitude though. I have a feeling that you really didn't intend it that way and it's just one of those times where what you wrote wasn't worded correctly. It's something I do constantly and it is pretty frustrating, as I don't notice me being rude, but others will.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Can't seem to edit. To add, What I mean about being forgetful is that it's not the end of the world if mistakes happen in art. It's how the artist handles the problem that's the key.

[dakotabailey.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry if I'm stepping on the mods toes' but may you at least please remove her phone number from the notes? I would kinda advise against putting your own personal information as well :/

Sorry, mods!

[night-sky99.livejournal.com]

I was about to post the same thing. You may want to edit out hers and your personal information, such as your actual address.

[neive.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with sbneko and not get on you too much for the way your notes came off. Emotion can be hard to truly show through text, and I think others covered the point well enough by now.

What I -do- want to know, is how did you actually want her to "fix" the badge without redoing it entirely? You said up above you knew it'd be more difficult since its traditional to "fix" it, and a lot of traditional work is done with a lightbox on the inking stage (you essentially trace over the sketch, and this allows for the original to be undamaged in case you mess up or anything) and in most cases doesn't come out shoddy if the artist uses this as their main method of inking, but clean looking.

I'm just really confused as to what you were expecting her to be able to do that would've pleased you after the initial mistake. While yes its disappointing she missed notable features of your character, you seemed overly resentful over the mistake. She said she'd correct the hair and beard which were your main problems, and to me it does look like a bear but that can be blamed on style. Using the current badge as a base would cut down the workload needed to fix it for you. :<

I also see here in your post you're unhappy about him having headphones, but didn't tell this to the artist in your notes on things to fix. I think that's a little unfair to withhold that information from them since you say its another thing that really bothers you about the badge, but still use it as a reason for your irritation. It doesn't give her the proper know-how to make you happy with a fix, and she can't be held responsible for it at that point since its now a lack of communication on your part. :/

Ultimately I'm sorry this transaction didn't turn out as you wanted though, since she does seem like she's fairly swamped with commission work if she's overlooking things or might just be prone to forgetfulness sometimes.

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

As with the messages, I was being polite, while it may have come off as bitchy. I did get bitchy once I sensed the attitude on her end, and I had to post publicly that she messed up the design because she hadn't responded to anything I sent her prior.

Yes, I know she'd have to to do it over to fix it, but that's her fault for not doing it right in the first place. I DID specifically tell her what I wanted, including not to forget the hair color.

The "tracing" that I did not want to see was also the fact that I was unhappy with the whole badge- it didn't even look like aside from the missing key features I pointed out to her, and it didn't even have shoulders. Her last batch, the one that caught my eye for myself to commission her at the con, they had shoulders. If you notice as well, she wanted to do a quick tracing job in the next couple of days before leaving on vacation, where as she took forever to even start it before, and I didn't want it to be rushed.

In the end, I didn't want to wait for another few more months of no communication from her because I didn't want to deal with this anymore, because I really didn't want to become that angry over a simple badge. I'm normally not picky, you can ask any of the other people I've commissioned.

Thank you for not judging how my notes sounded, I was simply not rolling over for her and letting my money go wasted.

[ariakitty.livejournal.com]

She would not have been able to correct the badge. Redoing it really would have been the only option. The badge looked like it was done in markers, and she couldn't have colored green over brown and have it look good. It would have looked like mud and I doubt you would have been any happier with that.

When you paid her were you asked to cover the paypal fees? Because if not then I can't sympathize with your $1.37 loss.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Seems he paid in full, in person, so no paypal fees would have been charged when he paid.

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

honestly you came off as being very rude. she said shed refund you or redo it and you just didnt seem happy with either one. sure, she made a mistake, but there was no need for you to act the way you did.

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

I did not intend to come off as rude, but I wasn't going to sugar-coat a problem and allow my money to go wasted. I was fine getting the refund, but not fine with her sticking with the fees in the end (which, whether I seemed rude or not, is very unprofessional to make me eat them). I wanted her to redo it, since I know traditional is nearly impossible to fix, and she offered me either another long period of no contact and waiting, or a rushed trace job (light table or not).

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

also, her art, her right to display it or not. you paid for the service and not for the rights unless you signed a contract.

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

I told her she could display it but I wanted my name taken off of it. It's a fair request to have her at least remove my name since I did not want to be associated with her further.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

Honestly, she probably could have held on to significantly more than that tiny little PayPal fee to cover materials used if she'd wanted. You are unsatisfied with the work she's done and the solution she offered to fix it, but that does not negate that the work was done.

If she's refunded you for the badge, why are you upset that she's going to keep it to use as a sample piece? You shouldn't get it because you now haven't paid for it, and she's under no obligation to destroy it. That's a pretty wild demand to make.

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

I didn't want the badge, and I didn't mind if she displayed it as long as she removed the name. Its only fair that I wanted my name removed or blocked.

Also, why should I have to pay the fees for materials she pretty much wasted by not doing the commission correctly? I'd totally understand her keeping some of the fees if I cancelled in the middle or near the end for any other reason.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

I looked at the badge and the references you gave.

I think that the badge she made was a bear rendered in her style. It is probably an animal she doesn't work with much. (In the future, maybe look for artists who have bear fursonas or have bear characters that you really like. My character is a horse, and I'm really particular about who I get to draw her. If I like x's wolves, it doesn't mean I will like x's horses. ETC. Occasionally, you'll find someone who exceeds expectations when drawing an animal they aren't used to or for the first time.. but not usually. )

I have no idea why she did not include the green, and I think the facial hair is an easy mistake for an artist who might be flustered. All of these things (sans headphones) are an easy fix.

I think you were very straightforward with what you want. I can't fault you for that. I realize that you paid in full, but I am under the impression that the artist did not turn out sub-par work. She missed markings, but the quality doesn't look rushed or poor. My guess is that she didn't write some details, or lost her notes on this character. (Hence the headphones..)

She should have fixed the first badge. I don't blame her for not wanting to work with a commissioner who has expressed disappointment in her finished piece. Maybe she feels that it's such an unimportant sum, and since she spent her time, work, and materials on it that she doesn't have to refund you in the entirety. She should have refunded with the personal tab, since the first transaction was not from paypal. Because she's keeping the badge, I don't think she should edit it in the slightest. It's an example. It's not close enough to be your character (in your mind?), so clearly it's not your character. It's not going to go home with anyone, and no one uses a badge for their examples forever. Eventually, styles or techniques will change. It will become outdated. It'll get thrown away. You can't be the only "Yujo the bear" that ever has been or ever will be in this fandom.

She has a $30.00 badge in her possession, which she's bought back from you. She needs to give you all your money back.

I do not think that she should hold the $3 shipping fee for your ACEO against you. It makes no sense.

I don't think it makes her a terrible artist, but I do feel that maybe she hasn't considered her actions in this case. I hope this puts a little bit of reasoning in her head and helps her figure out that she is actually incorrect..

Good luck!

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

No, I totally agree, I don't think she's a horrible artist at all, much better than I am even, just a horrible salesperson. And the whole "bear is not in her style" has been discussed in other comments above. Basically, I took a gamble on her because I liked her style, and if she had included the key details, I would have overlooked it not being within her range to draw a bear.

As for her displaying the badge, while it may not totally look like me, it still bears my name, and I am the ONLY YuJo in the furry community. The green headphones might give it away enough to a passerby. It's only fair that I ask her to remove the name.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Tigsie is definitely at fault for the initial lack of communication imo, especially with not letting you know that your badge was finished and using it as a display piece without your knowledge. It shouldn't be up to other congoers to let you know that work you paid for was completed.

That said, your own conduct was a little bit less than stellar. Mistakes happen, she acknowledged the mistakes made on your character and was willing to rectify them, but you seemed to mess her around a bit by not making your mind up whether you wanted the piece redone or a refund.

Honestly, making a fuss over $1.37 seems incredibly petty especially when she's eating the cost of shipping the other item. It comes across as more of a strike against you than anything when you got your money back and a free scan of the badge. It really isn't your place to demand what she does with the badge either since it's her work and her property now you've been compensated. I'd be more inclined to be wary of you than her now after this post.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

I am curious to see the proof of the sale/agreements made of the pokemon ATC to determine whether she is "eating" the shipping cost, or if she was selling them and shipping them for free.

If she's pulling this " I'm eating this cost and I'm making a huge effort for you; therefore, I owe you nothing..." bit out of thin air, I think she is absolutely in the wrong.


I'd need to see more information.

[vtforpedro.livejournal.com]

I keep going back and forth about how I feel about this one. I totally feel for you about the lack of communication. While I have never encountered an artist that ignored my notes, I admit, I would be INCREDIBLY frustrated - especially if the artist responded only after a public comment. Yikes. That already makes me wary of her.

However, I agree with a lot of commenters on here - you come off as very upset and perhaps a little harsh. She clearly changed her attitude when she offered the fix and she was very obviously trying to make the situation better. I think the fix could have been to your liking, but you're also in the right to ask for a refund.

And... she did offer a full refund. It should have been a full refund, in that case. The shipping charges were never mentioned and it isn't fair to hold them against you, as another person said. :c

I'm sorry you had to go through this situation, it really could have been handled better - perhaps even on both sides.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I don't know where everyone is getting the impression that she's holding the shipping charges of the ACEO against him. She just says that she paid for shipping out of pocket and he suddenly says "Wait, why are you charging me for shipping?" when she's... not.

[mikaufoxy.livejournal.com]

I'm going to agree with the others that the messages you wrote to Tigsie did come off as rude and uncalled for, and honestly, I don't really think this constitutes as a "beware of this artist", per se. I've gotten a conbadge from her once before, which was at Anthrocon 2010, and although it took quite a while, I did ask rather politely for any updates on it. In the end, I got the badge, and thanked her proper for it, and made a friendly suggestion to not take so much of a backlog of commissions. It's a common mistake many artists have a problem of.

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

I edited the journal post to portray why my comments seemed rude.

Also, this has merit as an AB post not because of the fact that she ignored the references, and brushed the whole problem off like my money was no big deal, but the fact that she made me lose money for her mistake. That's really the whole point of this.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

For the record, since I don't believe anyone has covered it yet, but despite it being your character she has the right to use it however she wants. She owns the copyright to the image, and you have no rights over it unless you opt to buy her out. She doesn't have to alter it one bit simply because it is your character. It would be nice, yes, but you cannot demand it of her.

However, everyone else has pretty much covered what I thought.

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

I understand that, I just think it would be fair if she blocked my name off with maybe black tape or something. I wasn't demanding it, I said "I'd appreciate it".

[ocelotish]

I don't have as much of a problem as some of the other people here, yes you are blunt, but I get the feeling that it's more a straight forward personality rather than being nasty. Futhermore, it was just in terms of the commission "the hair and beard are wrong" that sort of thing. You didn't insult her artwork in your communications with her, you may have gotten a little short towards the end, but I can't really blame you for that. The comment here about the goof troop is neither here nor there as it might be style/the way she draws bears. It's not bad if you don't like it, but just be more careful next time.

As for the refund I really disagree with the paypal fee. It was her business transaction so it was her job to make you whole. I thought one of the options under the personal tab was often used for this, but I honestly don't know. As for the shipping, my gut says that it was an attempt to justify the paypal fees because it was never brought up before. That being said, if evidence shows up one way or another, I'll change my tune.

Other than that it's pretty straight forward, artist does commission, but messes up, client isn't happy, artist offers to refund. I don't blame you for taking it: it's not like you demanded the refund instead of touching up; it was offered.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I think you've done a spin on this to make the story look better for you. The only unprofessional thing the artist has done is to not reply to your note that you sent your address in.

There's no where in the notes you've posted that said "I'm keeping your badge as a display and I'm not removing the name, so nyaa!" as you seem to be implying in your post here.

And she's not "holding the $3 shipping against you", as you're claiming.

Not only that, but she did not agree to send you the Paypal fees with the refund. If you had bothered to do some research before getting pissed off and telling her, "don't bother fixing it, just refund me!" (of course, this was after you said "I'd rather have you fix it," which she agreed to and was willing to work on it before and while she was out of the country, no less), you would have found out that if there's money in one's Paypal account, then they could just send it to you as a gift and not have the fees taken out. You could have refunded it back to her, and gotten it sent back to you fee free, most likely.

You seem like a really unreasonable guy, who writes people before he's taken the time to cool off, and thus gets a major attitude with people. Every post on here is filled with agressive-ness, and that's not something I would ever want to deal with as an artist. It's nothing at all to do with "sugar coating" how you feel about the commission. It's all about you acting childish for a simple mistake that the artist was more than willing to work on you with. And honestly, I saw NO attitude on her part.

It's $1.30-odd. Just suck it up.


(And regarding the whole "waahhh she was using my badge as a display!!!" I'd be willing to bet she had finished a batch of badges shortly before the con, and took them there to hand out, and planned to ship the rest after she got back. I KNOW firsthand that getting ready for a con is CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY, especially if you have a job and are making prints and artwork to sell at the convention too. I would have waited until after the convention too, personally.)

[yujoben.livejournal.com]

I wasn't throwing a fit about her displaying the piece, I said "I'd appreciate it" if she would not use my name on it. Originally, I said I was skeptical about it being displayed, but I didn't make an issue of it.

Yes, I wanted her to fix it and then agreed to her first offer to pay me back, because she told me she was going on vacation, which is pretty much the reason she uses in a public journal saying why she can't work on her long list of commissions quite frequently.

I'm sure at some point you can understand not wanting to go through that ordeal again.

As for the amount, it was more the principal of the matter, and I felt I didn't get anything out of it. The options she gave me only made me weary to continue, and I accepted her previous offer for a refund.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Wow. I'm sorry...I'll have to put my thoughts in numerical order, kinda hazy from all the anger in those notes.

1.) First thing I noticed - You say in your early notes that "You're not picky" and yet you list of everything you're being picky about. Yes. You are picky. You are asking for very specific things to be included (or not to be included, which is confusing in a reference given) this is not a BAD thing. But you are being -picky-. So telling her how no one else BUT her has ever made these mistakes is an insult right off the bat. Not the best way to start negotiations.

2.) Second. She apologizes, then offers a full refund! Thats a very responsible thing for her to do considering the fact she finished your badge, and knows you're unhappy. But you complain instead about wanting the badge fixed. How would she fix a finished traditional badge? Then, out of spite, you ask her to somehow remove your name and no longer associate your character with her art. That was just plain snappy imo, and you have no real right to ask for it. Had you been more polite maybe she would have agreed, but you flat out demanded it.

3.) She seems at this point to be trying to do -everything- to fix it. From refunding, to finishing the entire thing. What did you want her to say? First you complain, then she offers refund, then you complain, then she offers it to be redone, then you complain...see what I'm getting at? Less complaining and more compromise would have been good.

In closing, the $1.51 you're asking for will probably not be seen again. Just chalk it up to experience, move on, and never commission her again.

Oh, and maybe remove that bold lecture at the bottom of your entry, it really sets a worse tone!

I do not condone what she did, but frankly? I see you mostly at fault for how this situation ended up. The artists did seem to try and make amends, and all I saw in return was a LOT of spite, anger, and unwillingness to compromise.

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

Pretty much this.

[holydust.livejournal.com]

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

She removed the badge from the submission. What more do you want from her? After this slandering, you do not deserve the $1.3x.

[kriscynical.livejournal.com]

This has probably been said over and over again but since I don't have the time to read through over 140 comments...

What artist doesn't let her customer know she's finished the product and doesn't tell them she's using it as a display/example piece? .....she was still keeping my badge to use for examples (though I asked her in a previous note to NOT do that or to at least remove the name since I do not want myself associated with her any further)....

I don't know about notifying you of its completion, but she has every right to use it as a display piece in her portfolio unless you buy her out of the copyright of the image which is a hefty extra cost. That's just the way artist's rights work in the illustration industry. Whether or not a furry artist chooses to follow that standard is up to them, but you shouldn't assume you hold all rights to the image itself when it comes to simple sample display. You have no right to tell her what to do with the image by simply commissioning it from her. Those rights have to be negotiated and paid for. You are assuming you have a lot more say than $16 gets you. She's doing nothing wrong there, and any say she would give you in her own use of the image would be purely out of courtesy/kindness, not requirement.

I posted a comment publicly on the actual submission that she ruined the design, to which she FINALLY replied to me, telling me to note her privately on how she did it wrong.

That wasn't very kosher to do that publicly. That kind of communication should be private just as she asked not only out of courtesy but also in order for her to be able to refer back to it.

...she drew headphones on him even though at the con I asked her to not include the headphones...

I can speak from experience that if a client tells me something verbally at a place like a convention on a piece that won't be finished until however much time afterwords, I will forget what was said. Artists at conventions interact with hundreds of people a day and our brains aren't steel traps when it comes to detail specifications. If it wasn't written down or in an e-mail, it's understandable that it was forgotten.

Her answer to the last message was that she would "trace" the original image to do it over before she left on vacation (meaning she'd rush through it and hope I'd be happy with it)

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Stop right there. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, and it is by no means "rushing through it". What she was probably trying to do was make sure the basic quality of the image remained the same because drawing it over again from scratch would possibly change the feel of it from the original. She did it to retain the quality of the image for you, more than likely.

Artists trace over their own work all the time, even professionals. It's how we clean up our work from a rough sketch to a tight sketch to inking and whathaveyou. It's part of the process of creating a piece of artwork, and it's a ridiculous thing to get upset about.

All of this is over sixteen dollars? I don't blame her for wanting to issue a refund. Drawing the same piece twice wouldn't be worth $16, and seeing as how she was apparently leaving the country and didn't think she'd have time to get to it, a refund seems like a reasonable solution.

Additionally: in the industry, a standard clause in the artist contract is that an artist can discontinue a job and refund you the money at any time for any reason at the artist's discretion. The only time that changes is if the employer/client provides a contract that does not include it. If the client cancels the job and wants a refund after work has already been done, the refund is less the price of the work already done whether it is completely finished or not.

Needless to say whether or not warning is taken about the artist, I think people here will be taking some caution before accepting any commissions from you because of the way this was handled. Several of your complaints are about things she had every right to do.

[ocelotish]

Just as a note, you seem to be excusing the artist for putting in the headphones because they forgot, and I'd really disagree with that. The artist had pen and paper at the con, and easily could have added a note for themselves on the receipt saying "No head phones." It is literally the artist's job to ensure the completion of the picture the client requested and not writing it down or remembering is in the artist's court, not the client's.

I agree with the tracing/rush job thing, but I attribute that more to ignorance (and not in a bad way). I can see where rush job would look like rushing on a job and tracing does carry that negative connotation even though it can be used responsibly (because it can also be used irresponsibly).

Replying to the piece I'm conflicted about. The artist did never respond to any of the notes so I can see where the commissioner was coming from.

Professionalism and point of view.

[magentainks.livejournal.com]

Okay, well...

I come from two points of view here which include faults on both sides.

It is always the artist's ownace to take proper notation of character specifics.
i.e. if you're at a con, don't let it pass by word of mouth (with the payment of
the commission make notes like 'no headphones' 'green streaks' 'fuzzy beard'.

If one pays in cash they should receive the FULL refund if their product is
unusable and will not be delivered (such as this case).

Yes, she did the work, yes she spent time on it, but you should not represent
someone's character or "likeness" without their permission and she should alter
it so it has at least a different name and or maybe add a marking and cannot be
associated with the character.

If you're selling something you should treat it like a business, regardless of whether
it is recreational or not, you are taking someone's money and offering a service. If
you fail to deliver on that service this is what happens. There are plenty of ways
to prevent this from happening.



Now...

I do think the initial bitchiness in Yujo's note May 25th, 2011 8:50 could not be
avoided and is understandable. However, continuing on to say things like "This is
on your shoulders" and using elipses which can almost be conceived as threat or
insult and being dismissive like "but whatever" is highly passive aggressive and
inappropriate behavior on his part. She is attempting to help at every turn here
and getting responses that are purposefully contrary. This kind of behavior makes
me very wary as well.



Regardless of how the references given are interpretted the client asked for
specifics, whether it's by word of mouth or not, it is the ARTISTS job to
follow through correctly especially when a piece is traditional and hard
if not impossible to alter. "I forget things too!" just doesn't fly when
people's money is at stake here whether it's $1 or $1000.

That said, it is totally understandable that people forget sometimes or
miss a detail, and I'm glad she offered to redo it entirely. That shows
good character.


I would suggest if possible that the next time money is saved up it is
spent on a character sheet with colour palette and flat colouring so in
the future, there's no excuse for mistakes like, "Well, that drawing was
kind of hard to understand."



Just my thoughts/ramble. X3


[edited for commas ~lol]

Re: Professionalism and point of view.

[spdora.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, as I don't know if I really understand the refund point, but

How does cash make a difference on a refund?

and

Full refunds aren't always given out through businesses like retail, etc. After a certain amount of time, etc, they aren't given a full refund necessarily. She did the work, she tried to work with the commissioner, and she used up the materials. At that point, 1.30 out isn't exactly a bad deal. Illustration isn't retail, it wouldn't follow the same rules of goods under refund.

I'd just like clarification on why you mentioned that the refund bit.

[notorious_hunty.livejournal.com]

This.

[yoka-neko.livejournal.com]

Every artist carries a different style with them, im sorry its not how you wanted it.
I dont think her customer service was off at all. In the screenshots, she has responded to your 'blunt' PM's and comments.
She offered to refund you at the beginning which you didnt want, so she offered to re draw the picture and then you refuse that too. I dont understand what more could of been done.
For the time and effort she put in, you could of just let the $1 go and not do business with her again.
Its just an unfortunate situation, but the good news is that you have your $29 back, which you can use for someone else, and you also have a digital copy of the badge.

[trimblecat.livejournal.com]

If you don't want mistakes to be made on your character (And since your an artist yourself) you should consider whipping out a reference sheet for people to follow. There were some details on your character I would have missed too. The Mohawk, for one (I really did think it was a full head of hair) and the headphones for two (Though if she should have made a note). The Glee one in particular screwed her/you over.

Expecting you to cover a $1.37 paypal doesn't seem out of the question either. This artist offered you two options-redo or refund. You picked refund. You technically canceled on her. She finished the badge. She provided the service. She may have screwed it up but she also did everything in her power to fix it for you by offering to redo it. You still have the scan, which on my photoshop printer preview, will take up a little more than 1/4th a piece of 8.5x11 paper which isn't that small. I don't blame her for dancing around the reasons with you because no matter what I get the feeling you would have protested.

This in my opinion isn't really a beware because the artist didn't seem like she was actively trying to scam you. It seems more like a case of customer/client not meshing well together. Neither of you are fully in the wrong, and neither of you are fully in the right either. I really am sorry things didn't go very smoothly this time around, but it seems like it's inevitable that that'll happen once or twice to everyone on both sides of a deal. =( Good luck next time.