Hello! I'm new to the community!

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

I just started my first commissions and trades about a month after creating a gallery at Deviant Art. I've read a few of the mishaps that commission artists come across, and I was wondering if I'm going about this the right way. I finish a commission and post a small portion of the completed piece before I receive payment. A sample like this.

Is that a good thing to do? :-/ Is there a better way so both the customer and myself are comfy with the transaction and no one gets taken advantage of?

Thanx in advance, all! :)

Comments

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm just too jaded and sick of being screwed to deal with after art payments myself. All up front, or half up front if it's money coming from someone who's name I've seen around.

I see nothing wrong with what you're doing, that seems like a nice bit of the art, and give enough idea how things are going before payment.

I can't tell if you you cropped that picture on purpose, but it's good to at somepoint show a full sketch to the commissioner, so they can make changes to things, with out being surprised last minute by a foot or tail they didn't see before.

Good luck and avoid the crazies. :)

[growing-rose.livejournal.com]

Don't know if you got my note on dA or not. I gotta pay you for my lizard!

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

*Goes to check* DA's been a little flippy on me, I don't see new messages right away 0_0

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

I think I'll start charging upfront, at least half price. But most of the time I enjoy what I'm asked to do, so it wouldn't be much of a loss if I wasn't paid once or twice. :)

I did crop the image, just enough for the customer to see the essential parts. I never thought about them making suggestions before it was complete. I'll take that into consideration for next time!

Thanx so much for your advice! :D

btw: I love your icon!

[lacy.livejournal.com]

For me, half up front or all up front is the only way to go. :) Even taking half you'll still have people disappear on you or not be able to pay the rest, it's happened to me. Taking no payment and doing work is just asking to be taken advantage of, in my opinion.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I'll start charging at least half upfront. I don't like the thought of being taken advantage of, but I admit that I enjoy what I do so much and I charge so little, I could manage going without a payment or two! :)

Thanx so much for your advice!

[crssafox.livejournal.com]

The only problem with showing just a part of the finished piece is that the commissioner can't critique and point out things they'd like corrected. (Though sometimes with the nitpickiness of some commissioners, that's a GOOD thing! heh)

You can always say that payment is required after a finished sketch is completed. This way you can feel out working with the commissioner (if they are far too nitpicky about miniscule style elements while you are sketching, for example, you may choose not to complete the commission with the person) and also they don't get the full image - if they decide they don't like it, they haven't taken up TOO much of your time.

Most of all, it's all "live and learn" with commissions. Everyone here has been burnt/burned someone in different ways, it just varies, really.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

LOL! Very true! @ it can be a good thing. I should probably consider allowing my request-ers to critique part-way. After all, I'm sort of using this as an art class...that pays! hee!

I guess I'll find a method that fits me. I feel guilty asking for money upfront, and I rather enjoy doing a lot of the requests take, even if I weren't being paid. It's a nice bonus to get $1-10 for something I'd gladly do for free! :)

Thanx for your comment! :D

[growing-rose.livejournal.com]

I definately agree with the at least partial payment up front. That just makes the most sense.

Don't go doing the whole thing at once without payment. And make sure they know your stance on things. Like you can sell any sketches or whatnot they don't pay for/want in the end.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

That sounds like a really good idea. I think I will start charging at least half price up front. I've been going at it pretty lax. I'm doing this for fun, to learn and earn a little cash. I only charge $1-10 and I love drawing so much, I wouldn't mind if I didn't get paid once or twice. :)

Thanx so much for your advice! :D

[kestral-kitsune.livejournal.com]

I just post up what I have hope for crits and if the commissioner wants me to take them down i do.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

Sounds good! I'm using this as a sort of art class, so maybe I'll start asking for crits before I complete commissions. Thanx for your input! :)

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

This sort of works... but you could go about it a little differently and have a bit more safety involved. I think I've worked something out that seems to be effective on both fronts.

First, I sketch out what the person asks me to draw for them. This serves a duel purpose; I get (what always seems to me to be) the hardest part of the commission out of the way first; we also get to see pretty much exactly what we're getting into by having a visual in front of us to detrmine what price costs will be. In addition, you're still giving something a client can "fall in love" with right off the bat, thus securing their interest, as well as cementing with them that you are serious about doing work for them.

I can never subscribe to the half up front, half upon completion thing. Even with the ease of PayPal, that's a hassle I can't stand. So when they approve of the sketch, I always, always ask for 100% payment before completion. Then, and only then, will I finish it. If I don't receive payment, I'm only out the time spent to do the sketch, and hey, everybody can use a little sketch practice once in a while, huh?

Hope that helps!

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

Hmm...it takes the surprise out of it...but I must admit a piece that's done perfectly with crits from the request-er would be a lot better than a crappy surprise! :P I may start doing that because I'd like to improve as an artist, and a lot of the time I'm doing commissions for people with complex fursonas that I might need pointers on. And I'm going to request at least half payment up front from now on. :)

Thanx so much for your insight! :D

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

No prob. ;)


Honestly... screw the surprise. If a client is commissioning this as a gift to a friend as a surprise, that's one thing. But never keep a client in the dark about a single stitch of what you're doing. They are, after all, the ones who are PAYING for the SERVICE you're doing for them. They want to make sure they get their money's worth.

I've scarce run into any clients who simply throw money at me and say "do what you like" (although I must admit I love it when that happens!). On the other end of the spectrum I tend to detest clients who are particularly anal-retentive about every little detail... and I've met a few of those doozies. However, in ANY case, it's best to be safe rather than sorry. It's happened to me enough times that clients have been unhappy with a finished product that I take pains to show them intermediate steps when I can. After all, it's only 5 minutes out of your life to scan, upload, and write a quick e-mail, and even less time for them to confirm it.

90% of the time in my experience, WHEN a client has been unhappy with a finished product, it is on account of their lack of foresight. I can't exactly put the entirety of the blame on them, however, if they didn't get enough updates. Sometimes it's something stupid but major, like the placement of an arm that really makes no difference. But I try to avoid it when possible, and say "tough cookies, you had your chance" where applicable.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

Very true! I understand that now. I should be asking for their insight. They really should get their money's worth, which means they should have a bigger role in the completion of the piece. I'm definitely going to start doing that! In fact, I just asked my second customer if they'd like to critique as I work on it, and they said that was fine with her. :)

But I have to ask: How do you share the sketches in progress? I mean, do you put a watermark on it, provide a small scale version, etc? :-?

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

No. Show them all of it. A large, high-res version.

Seriously.

For all the reasons I said above -- it shows them you're serious about working with them, it shows them what you're getting into, it allows them to be happier with the picture and its progress and YOUR business.

I promise you, clients will not run off with a sketch without paying for a final. It just doesn't happen that way; and if it did, like I said, you're only out the time you spent on the sketch, right?

Psychology works in odd, yet predictable ways. If you treat people as though you can't trust them a little too much, they will become offended, and will call your bluff to the point of actual resentment. This is why people have real, ANGRY reactions to watermarks on pictures, pictures that are shrunk down to poor resolutions, etc. etc. to prevent piracy. They resent these techniques so much that they will rebel against it.

Your client is a relationship that you have entered in on. It's a relationship based on monetary recompense for services rendered, and it is also based on trust, as well as contractual law. I endeavor to treat all customers with as much respect, and realize that while I retain image rights, they are ultimately in control of the image itself. Don't begrudge them that, or you'll lose business.

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

Although I should make an addendum:

There IS such thing as bending to a client's will too much, and it ties in very poignantly with the whole issue of monetary recompense. I have had clients in the past who have asked for TOO MANY changes coughcough Canis Claxis coughcough without offering proper monetary recompense in exchange. Time is precious, and to the unsalaried freelance illustrator, time literally EQUALS money; I do have a limit as to how much allowance I give clients for changes made to pictures, particularly if I gave them clear images and they had ample time in which to speak up.

This, however, can be much more easily circumvented if you do give them clear, complete images to approve of!

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

You have a lot of very good points! And I admit I one of those ANGRY people when it came to Getty Images' watermarks. But now I understand where they're coming from, and thanks to you I now know that my customers might not be so cool with it. :P

I'll be sure to share the full sketch, but I'll share it privately from now on. When I posted the sample that I shared in this post, it was posted in my Deviant Art journal, so more than just the customer got access to it. Might even add the WIP's to my scraps...

I guess I'm thankful that I'm not that great of an artist. The people that I've done commissions for have been really young and very accepting of everything I've done for myself or in trades. And I don't charge very much. It would be kinda weird for them to demand a full $3 refund for a little mistake. :P So far no one has asked for a really complex or realistic commission either, so my work load and time spent are fairly minimal. :)

Thanx so much (and yet again) for all your insight! I can definitely tell that you know what you're doing! :D

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

Anytime. ^_^

[tizzrah.livejournal.com]

Personally, speaking from a commissioner's standpoint, if the only thing you were going to show me before payment was a cropped portion of the final image, I wouldn't commission you. I would want to see what I'm giving you money for before I commit.

Now, this doesn't mean I want you to finish the whole image before I send you money. The best way, I've found, is to have you do a sketch for me, and once approved, I send 100% of payment, and then you finish it and mail it to me. But before you got a dime, I would want to see a sketch. I have been burned very badly in the past when having paid 100% up front with no progress image, and four years later, I have yet to see some simple linework.

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

As a commissions artist, I’d have to disagree with this approach. There are people who will happily dash off with your sketch art, and you won’t see a penny. It’s happened to me before, and I now make sure it never happens again.

Buyers pay either a deposit of half, or the full amount up-front ~before~ I put so much as pen to paper. I then give them a URL, which I regularly update with reduced jpg progress shots of the picture so they can see how things are coming along.

If an artist has got some good feedback at Furbid-SF, or a suitably full commissions gallery full of references, then buyers should feel safe enough that their artist is a reliable one.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

That's what I was afraid of with the sketch. Which is why I showed that I both sketched and colored the requested animal, but wrote all over it too so no one would run off with it and make it an icon or something. :P

I was commissioned again tonight and I've asked for at least half up front. I think I'll do that and ask for critiques half-way to completion from now on. :)

Thanx so much for your insight! :D

[tizzrah.livejournal.com]

Well, heh, not to be rude, but I personally wouldn't commission you because of this. The artist in question that I'm talking about as far as waiting four years for my artwork is a very, VERY well-known artist, and has a ton of good feedback and a gallery full of art. But I still haven't seen a LINE drawn as far as MY work is concerned. I am not going to name this person in question, as I don't want to start a flame war.

Of course this is only one person. But when I've slapped down $400 (no joke) for a piece of art, and it's been four years with no progress, I tend to get a little skeptical of artists' work ethics. I would have no problem paying up front 100% if I had commissioned the artist before and had a good transaction, but for a brand new artist... I want to see some work on it before you get a dime, to let me know you're serious about completing it.

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

Please, name them. This IS Artists_Beware. ;) And honestly, I'm curious!

Okay, so that's petty. But seriously, aren't you concerned enough to want to warn other people about it?

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have to agree. If there's an artist out there giving the rest of us a bad name, you should share that information so someone else doesn't go losing $400. And let me just make myself clear that when I say plenty of positive feedback at Furbid/Ebay, I'm not talking bout a few good ratings, but 15-20 or more. It's not that much for an experienced reliable artist.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

I see what you're saying. I was worried that people would think that about the cropped image. But I didn't want to show her the sketch because it would look like I hadn't started coloring it. :-/ I suppose if I showed the full sketch and the cropped final image, that would be better...

But it doesn't really matter that much anymore because I'm starting to ask for at least half payment up front. And frankly, I love drawing so much and I charge so little, I wouldn't be too upset if I wasn't paid once or twice. :)

Thanx so much for your insight!

[korrok.livejournal.com]

I always take half up front, or all in some cases (because it's easier, and I've "proven" myself reliable now). I wouldn't risk starting without payment.

[crazdude-k4me.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that sounds like the safe way to go. I've been going all willy-nilly because I'm new to commissions, I'm not the best out there, and I love drawing! Money's just a little bonus. :D I'll start charging at least half of the payment up-front though, because after all, I'm a college student and I thrive on pizza. :->~

Thanx for your comment! :D

[larylich.livejournal.com]

Charging part up front weeds out those who arn't serious and are just wasting your time.

I also tell folks about how progress will be updated and when scans will be sent. I also limit the amount of times "revisions" can be done. I don't mind folks making edits to what I've done (especially if I've got it wrong), but the folks who want endless tweeks are going to get hit with extra charges. Then again, I'm up front with that so there are no surprises.

Just be honest about the time frame of the piece, keep your customer updated and make sure everything you give them has something like "SAMPLE" plastered over it so they can't run off with the finished product w/o paying the last bit.

[westly.livejournal.com]

Half up front, right there at the beginning.

When they want to see the sketch, I put my pencil and eraser over it, take a really craptastic digitial camera photo of it, and post that.

No way are they going to run off with that, they can crit the sketch, and tell me what they need to be changed.

Then, when I finish it, before I scan it, I say Give me the other %50 before I ship this off to you.

Everyone's happy!