Another rule reminder

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

2. Whatever happens in the community, stays within the community. Do not go to the offender's LJ or art site account and harass them, or contact them any other way if the matter under discussion does not regard you personally.

I noticed several people from the comm in Handehog's journals. Please don't do that. Do not egg him on, try to correct him, or just feed into his whole deal. Not only is it against the rules, but it is not helpful to the situation reported here.

Comments

[insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com]

^ This

If the person is one of those fragile types, they may DFE(Delete F*cking Everything) and disappear.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

And Handehog did just that.

[insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com]

Congrats to the people here who trolled Handehog, they're now no better than him.

This is exactly why people need to use some common sense. There's a different when sending a friendly message to someone vs being a complete drama queen.

The mods should start banning people, we all know the rules.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

There's no way to tell who got to the journal via AB and who got to it from other people's tweets/FD_2/other artist's journals. That rule is difficult to enforce because of stuff like that.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

That, and I think stuff like that could get the community itself in trouble with LJAbuse. We don't want to come off as a platform for people to harass others, communities HAVE been banned for that.

[gaturguts.livejournal.com]

I was going to post something about this on that A_B post.
Now he knows about the LJ post and could just delete everything, making him look 'innocent'.

This A_B post sure has gotten people in a frenzy.
Sure, the guy was really rude and out of place, but i've seen much worse posted here.
Just block him from your page then move on. No need to fight a battle you're not a part of.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

People will get into frenzies over anything, especially if they dislike someone for whatever reason. Then there are the folks they really like and everyone would defend them for murder.

Not saying I agreed with what the guy did, but I thought the swarm of hate was a bit much, especially when I replaced the guy's name with "someone everyone likes"... it sure would have generated a different sort of frenzy altogether.

[alaitallon.livejournal.com]

Not really. Refusing to pay for a commission after work has been done and it's completed is shitty no matter who does it, and I can say with certainty that pretty much the rest of the community understands that as well.

[gaturguts.livejournal.com]

I'd be infuriated if I drew something for someone and they didn't pay, but that is why I take payment upfront unless it's with a REALLY trusted friend.
I'm actually more surprised at how many artists DON'T take payment up front..
I've done that method since I first started taking commissions. It's really common sense so you don't get screwed out of a payment.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

No argument there, but as I said- it's the TYPE of replies(frenzy). Let me clarify.

I've seen popular people do horrible things and while no one disagrees that it isn't shitty of them you certainly don't see the frenzy of name-calling and utter hate that guy degenerated. Instead, you see a lot of "benefit of the doubt" and "maybe she's going through some hardships" and "wow, I've never seen this from her" and "maybe you spoke to her wrongly" and "wow, sadly I will have to put her on my black list even though I hate to do it" etc. type replies. And it never falls into 2+ pages of "wow that guy is (insert bad word of choice here)" as about half the replies to that guy's post are. Maybe a page, that's it, cause you can assume a ton of folks who still support the popular artist are remaining quiet about it.

[kairi-koitra.livejournal.com]

That being said it might be a good idea to take screen caps of that journal as well just in case it is deleted since it does add to the testimony of the orignal poster of the A_B article. But I fully agree with the need to move on idea.

The A_B article is starting to look like it belongs more in a drama community then based in an informative one. While his actions are truly "disturbing" and his attitude is evil.. we still want to walk the higher ground.

[mel-the-hybrid.livejournal.com]

I was able to get a screenshot of the journal, but not the comments themselves. I think another artist has screenshotted the whole thing.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

The A_B article is starting to look like it belongs more in a drama community then based in an informative one. While his actions are truly "disturbing" and his attitude is evil.. we still want to walk the higher ground.

Precisely my thoughts as well.

[holydust.livejournal.com]

I actually tried, but so many comment threads went so long that it caused the page to scroll horizontally; when I tried to use AwesomeScreenshot to cap the whole thing, it hung. I wasn't able to get screens later on because of this. It turned into a monster too large to capture.

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

it was actually spread all over FA by many many artists im watching (id give examples but i dont wanna drag them into this lol) i didnt even realize this was on A_B until someone told me on FA, so for that i apologize.

[mel-the-hybrid.livejournal.com]

Yeah, sorry about that as well. The link was actually given to me via note from one of my friends. Didn't realize someone actually made an entry about him.

[sekhmet.livejournal.com]

i got it via twitter.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I was wondering why so many people from here popped up on the journal calling him out... It makes more sense now.

[crssafox.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I saw a couple of artists post about him on FA; I'd seen the post here on A_B when there were only about 10 comments on it, but then after the third or fourth person linked to him/the A_B post I went back and checked, three pages of comments. Dang!

I don't think it's necessarily that people from A_B are going over to him and harassing him; I think word's broken free from LJ and other people around the net are not happy with him, so even if someone's a member of this community they may not have seen the post here (I know I'm not the only one that doesn't keep communities on their friends list, I only check them out periodically) before interacting with him.

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

exactly. i dont look here too often since...well im busy XDD

[mekania.livejournal.com]

I know there is obviously a lot of people going there because of the AB entry but most people were responding to his journal itself and not the details of his entry. While the people referencing the entry were at odds with your rules, would the others really be in trouble for what was said? There are comments above by community members who found the journal by other means so it'd be hard to enforce properly, right?

I'm tired and I'm feeling like this is not coming out right but basically: I don't think people going over to an AB subjects page and discussing what they have written/posted should be against the rules. Whereas I completely agree with the rule about going over there and starting AB post-related flame wars and harassment.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

This is exactly how I feel. Getting banned as a member because a person HAPPENS to be posted on AB is entirely different than an AB-started flame-war. I don't think reacting to what is said in a journal is the same thing at all =/ Posting harassing comments in their shouts is one thing, but as long as it not referencing the entry/obviously harassment due to the entry I think it's overstepping the bounds a great deal to ban people.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

LJ Abuse may or may not be able to tell the difference (or care to tell the difference) between. Thus the 'better safe than sorry rule'. I don't like it myself (frankly I had a few words I'd have loved to put where the sun don't shine on him...), but its better to hold my tongue and still see an A_B about, than to let loose and BOOM! that was the one person who decided to declare A_B called a field day on them to LJ.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

I see what you're saying but I don't agree with it. How do you sort out people who knew him in real life? How about people that already were following on FA? What if they were in the middle of a discussion *before* they knew it was posted here?

I think it's crazy to state that "once you know it's on A_B then you can't post." That's *really* extreme and not at all the same thing as the rules as written (which I TOTALLY AGREE WITH). I think you guys are really stepping out of your jurisdiction with a clarification that includes responding to publicly posted journals with no proof they were even linked from A_B...if we had a run-in with LJ-Abuse already, fine, but this community has been around and active for years and is yet to have a major issue.

I'm not saying I won't follow the rule, (I wasn't, nor have I ever been one to harass someone on their journals from A_B or elsewhere) but it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I can see it used case-by-case (as in the Handehog post) but as a blanket rule it's extremely difficult to enforce and not very clear at all =/.

[holydust.livejournal.com]

Argh. Much as I hate to admit it, oceandezignz has a point here. LJ isn't going to conduct a heavy investigation comparing the usernames of the people on the FA post vs. the people in the comm; I suppose all they'd need to see is a post about the offender and a long post on another site full of hecklers.

What worries me is that A_B could get shut down that way, anyhow. If it blows up into enough of a big deal, no amount of restraint on our part would protect us short of our saying "it's not us".