Need some advice...

[fetalstar.livejournal.com]

So I got a PM on the Terraria forums, about doing monster designs for someone's indie game company. Here is a screenshot of the entire conversation.

Screenie doesn't include him saying that they'll have a GDD written up in a few days.

And here is a quick link to the website they sent me.

It sounds intriguing, and I've always wanted to do designs for a video game. It just worries me that I'm not going to be seeing any money whatsoever up front. I don't mind getting paid a percentage of the profits (though, to be honest, 5% doesn't really sound like much :X), but I'd like at least something up front as a show of good faith. Especially considering all of the illustrations I'll be drawing. Front/sides/back views of (what sounds like) over 30 monster designs? That's a lot of work for what seems like a gamble.

That and he's only 17 (according to his forum profile).

So yeah, sounds interesting, but kinda iffy. It'd be a pretty cool opportunity, especially if it ended up actually turning into something amazing and selling well.

What do you guys think?

Comments

[findmealone.livejournal.com]

I know I sound like a terrible party pooper, but I'd never work for someone that young, specially on something as high-workload as a game. He'd have to be a really, REALLY driven guy just to get it going to the point where it makes a profit, so it doesn't look promising - especially if there is no money up front!!

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

If he is only 17 he cannot enter a binding contract. Thus, if he decides to not pay you, to my knowledge, it doesn't matter since the contact was bunk in the first place.

If I am wrong, please feel free to correct me.

[findmealone.livejournal.com]

I don't know about the US, but I believe this is definitely the case in the UK.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Pretty much this, he's a minor depending on what state he's located in, and can't be legally held to any contracts.

I'd skip it, %5 is an insult, for a game that may or may not make ANY money, or even be finished.

[hellebore.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but I think this is doomed to failure :\

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Sadly, this situation is a dime a dozen. No upfront pay, no way, that's my mantra when dealing with young indie "game company" types (They almost always claim you'll get paid after, and yet want craploads of work done for nothing). And really...%5 of what? Of the profits they potentially will never make?

No. I would not agree to this. The probability this will ever get off off the ground is slim to none.

[latilombax.livejournal.com]

if he's 17, then why is he having an indie game company? I pretty much agree with others that 5% is not worth it, even for a game that's gonna be completed and makes any money (and especially when he's not paying you upfront for monster designs)

[notorious_hunty.livejournal.com]

Nope. What 17 year old would have an indie-game company unless he's filthy stinking rich and and extremely smart enough to come up with that of his own. 5% isn't worth it. I say ditch him.

[casteddreams.livejournal.com]

Gonna agree with everyone else here. I wouldn't trust it, the whole thing seems iffy and not even set in stone. If he wanted to hire you for this, he should have had more info for you. Not to mention his age and the legalities of that.

I would avoid this if I were in your shoes.

[fetalstar.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the advice guys!
I was definitely iffy about it, but yeah, seeing what everyone else thought definitely confirms it for me. If I can't get him to give me upfront money for it, then there's no way I'm going to work for him. Or his "indie company."

And 5% is totally an insult. I highly doubt it'll make a million billion dollars.

[neive.livejournal.com]

Honestly, you seem to have evaluated the situation well enough in your own post lol. Its very risky, with chances of no reward or you'll get very little, and ultimately isn't worth the risk and the time. Like others have pointed out too, since he's underage he can't make those kinds of contracts with you legally? I suppose it does depend on where he lives, but it'd be best to err on the side of caution. You have multiple red flags over this, so its probably best to listen to them and turn it down. :c

[fetalstar.livejournal.com]

Haha yeah, definitely gonna be a no-go unless I can wrestle some upfront money out of him.

XD

[techno4tomcats.livejournal.com]

Just hashing what everyone else is saying:
17; in most countries he can get away with non binding contracts.
His website is sloppy and gallery is a bunch of stock renders.
5% for concept and designs for a game is laughable; and generally you get paid a flat amount and a cost is agreed upfront in most cases, not a percentage.

In short, nice idea, but definitely NOT a serious business proposal.

Re: Cash upfont

[jakejynx.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be blunt about this.

You are a child. You do not know enough about what you're getting into to make promises like that. You should not be seeking artists without a significant budget already in order. Where are you getting the money for this? You cannot enter into a binding contract with anyone, so it means nothing for you to say "you can trust us, honest!" No one with any real sense would work for you for nothing more than a promise that maybe if the game is ever complete and sells a bunch of copies, they'll get 5% of the profits. No. That's not how it works.

Furthermore, it is so incredibly unprofessional for you to post this here, trying to convince this artist to work for you and promising some "cash upfront in a week or two." If you want to offer that to the artist, contact them directly.

I apologize if you are insulted by this, but you need to understand how ridiculous your situation and your offer is. Frankly, it's kind of insulting to even try to get someone to work for you in this situation.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't go for this either. If the dude is serious, he will start a Kickstarter campaign or something and at least be able to pay you for a few pieces to be shown as examples of what's to come.

It COULD be a great opportunity, but the likelyhood of that is very very low.

Re: Cash upfont

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

10,000 is a ridiculous number of games to expect to sell. 10 is probably closer to the truth. Since you have no money to pay upfront immediately, I assume this is your first game. With under 6 months of development time (3 months till the beta!) from receipt of the art to release, it seems VERY unlikely you will be able to produce a game worth £20.

I know experienced indy game devs who still give their work away for free! At £20 you are competing with new releases of B level studio titles and AAA titles that are only a year or so old. Indy games like "overgrowth" share your price point, but that has been in development for over two years and has an experienced team behind it, including an in house art guy and a very smart and thorough programmer (he wrote a custom 3D engine for the thing)

As the previous poster said, coming onto this comm is pretty unprofessional. Your post also screams "this guy is in over his head"; for a start, the grammar is dreadful. And I can't even find your company website.

I would like to be proven wrong. I'd love to see some previous games you guys have done (free online games are fine! even well thought out mods/level packs for existing games). But without evidence that you guys know what you're doing and will even get the game into Beta, let alone sell £200,000 worth of product, the artist would be mad to do a hell of a lot of work for 5% of what is likely to be next to nothing.

Re: Cash upfont

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

Professional tip #1: capitalise "I"s and the start of sentences, don't use apostrophes for plurals, "are" and "our" are different words, full stops are your friend.

Re: Cash upfont

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

Why are you replying to me? I am not the OP. I mean, you can pay me upfront if you like, but I'm not gonna do you any art or anything.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

I'd say his age alone makes this an instant deal breaker, byeond all the other red flags and his seemingly inability to conceptualize just how much work he's asking of you.

If you really want to do this, then I'd ask for an hourly wage as well as the percentage.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Darn it, was trying to screenshot the response above, but refreshed and now it's deleted arg. Definitely another red flag from this "pressuregames" fellow.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Serious red flag with the deleted posts too 8\

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

DANGIT GURL I WAS JUST TYPIN THAT

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

No, I would stay faaar away from this. Honestly, indie games are a sketchy thing to do art work with. Always accept payment upfront, because who knows if it will even be finished.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

I have SS's if you want :)

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

Agreed. More minor mistakes like poor grammar and being unable to distinguish livejournal usernames aside, the entire thing seems super fishy to me. 5% of future sales isn't a whole heck of a lot to promise with a start-up indie project like this, they don't have their budget planned before contacting artists, their sales projections were unrealistic at best, being 17 means they can't really enter into a legally binding contract anyway, etc. Glad the OP is proceeding with caution, I know I would!