Commissioner Beware- Baroo/Doctori-Lightning

[nightfell.livejournal.com]

WHO: Baroo/Doctori-Lightning
WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/doctori-lightning/ http://myfur.net/profile/Baroo

PROOF: http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/nightfell/Art%20Micellaneous/Baroo_ABpost.jpg?t=1312159399
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/nightfell/Art%20Micellaneous/BarooFA_ABpost.jpg?t=1312159437

EXPLAIN:  After putting down non-refundable deposit on a fursuit head commission, Baroo can't decide if he wants to proceed with the order or not. He has cancelled and un-cancelled with me multiple times during this entire transaction and finally sent me a note saying I was " not being slightest bit understanding about this. If you are going to make me wait almost a year for a fursuit head then at least lower the final price or purchase materials to show you are serious about providing your client with the most satisfying service as soon as you are able to." 

I'm honestly baffled and very disappointed that this had to happen. I've done hundreds of art commissions and over 10 suit commissions never had anyone lash out so negatively. 

 

The MyFur message and FA note screen caps pretty much explain the entire situation, but it gets a little messy/hard to read since there are a lot of one-liners.
 

May12- I was first contacted by Baroo on MyFur for a fursuit head commission. I provide a quote after being given a reference sheet

May 26- I receive a 20% deposit of $90 via PayPal and confirm that he has been scheduled for October 2011 completion in time for Halloween.

July11-Baroo contacts me that he might have another head commission opportunity for a cheaper price and asks if the deposit is refundable. I tell him unfortunately not but to let me know of his final decision before the end of the week so I can reschedule my Fall 2011 work queue if needed.

July 13- Baroo officially backs out of the commission and asks for a refund, despite the fact I had already informed him that the deposit was non-refundable. However I told him I was willing to work out an art/fursuit part exchange that totaled $90. He expresses interest and asks for a list of prices which I give him a link for. I take him off the work queue and schedule in another commissioner who wanted fursuit parts from me.

July 14- Baroo changes his mind and decides to get the head commission but wants to pay “ just pay very VERY slowly”. I tell him no problem, I can reschedule him for January 2012 which works well for his budget and since I only deliver completed suits when they have been paid in full.

July 14- Same day, Baroo sends me a My Fur message asking how much I charged for handpaws and for illustration art combos. I’m rather confused at this point since he cancelled with me, wanted the commission again, and now wants to go through with the trade/exchange? I roll with it and tell him to choose what he wants and I’ll give him confirm the price.

July 25- Baroo sends me a FA note saying he wants the fursuit head commission. I tell him fine, but I have to rescind the exception I made regarding the art/fursuit for deposit trade if he decides to cancel with me again.

July 27- Baroo contacts me regarding a conbadge commission. This is somewhat not relevant to the A_B post, since the transaction took place with no problem and the art was delivered.

July 30- Baroo asks if the commission can be done earlier if he pays me more money. I remind him that Oct is already taken and if his financial situation hasn’t changed, I didn’t suggest changing the Jan 2012 deadline.

July 31- I get this note. I recap the situation and inform him to reconsider what his note means and request for him to be patient. He sends me this response and an hour later he says he sends another note saying he still wants the fursuit head.
In my reply, I tell him that I did not want to do business with him and will be refunding his $90 deposit and posting on A_B.


Fellow artists, please be careful when dealing with this individual. 

Comments

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

I know you say your $90 is an nonrefundable deposit but to back out 5 days later without even starting or ordering supplies (or did you?), it seems a little absurd imo to not do it. Obviously this was MONTHS ago but I feel in the process if someone changes their mind before you start/order materials maybe you should refund them especially if they are being this sketchy.

Feel free to yell at me over this since I'm not very savvy on commissioning/being commissioned. Just a thought though.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

mte, but I don't do fursuits, so if there's something obvious that I'm missing. :c If someone is trying to back out so soon and items have not been ordered, I'd refund them asap.

Not to say that this person doesn't deserve a beware, because being that flaky is definitely not someone I want to deal with.

[ocelotish]

I think what you're "missing" is that the costumes would take a huge chunk of time (I'll guess a month) to complete, so the maker has to book slots (his was for October).

If he backed out in July and nightfell hadn't been able to find someone to take that slot, she'd be out the money she would have made from his commission, or any other commissions she had turned away because her October slot was full. (i.e. If they had two people inquire about October when it was full, those two people would have been turned away, then when Baroo cancelled nightfell would have an empty October and the two people might have spent their money elsewhere so October might not get filled.)

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Aaah, I've got you now. Thank you for the explanation. :)

[collie-fluff.livejournal.com]

I think that regardless of the situation, if it is known that the deposit is non-refundable from the beginning and you change your mind, you're out that $90. I don't think that it should be the artist's duty to modify their policy based on one indecisive individual. You agreed to a non-refundable amount and you accepted those terms when you sent payment.

HOWEVER given the time line and all the bullshit the artist went though I'd say it was a fair call to just refund him the $90 and be done with it.

[cissa.livejournal.com]

Yes, this.

If the $90 was non-refundable, then he can cancel or not, but he doesn't get the $90 back. That's what "non-refundable" means. Also, if he's that indecisive, i'd make DAMN sure I was paid in advance for all additional work, also on a non-refundable basis.

However, if you really want to get him off your case, I suppose you could refund it and close off the whole problem, though that would be encouraging him to act like an ass.

I'd suggest giving him a date by which he has to pay for the rest of the commission- or at least half of the rest- if he wants to proceed. That is also non-refundable. Then, if you don't get the entire rest, he sends the remainder when the thing is finished... or he doesn't, in which case you can re-sell it (he doesn't get it).

[magickitsune.livejournal.com]

I figure it might also be a deposit for the spot in queue. As long as he's taking up that spot, it means the fursuit-maker might have to say 'no' to another potential paying customer. If he then backs out, that's money lost from both him and the person they had to turn down.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

^ This. It's an important reason to have a deposit too when you are doing business like this.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

From what I can read on there (it's a tad small), it wasn't five days later, though yes, she didn't buy materials yet. It was about 3 months, more or less.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Uh...oops. Sorry, I misread what you said. I thought you meant the transaction was months ago, not that he backed out after months.

[pariahsdream.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not a fursuiter but I work in a rental business and we have 2 deadlines for canceling. Even if you cancel the next day after making your reservation, you're still out 25 bucks. It's basically a fee for having to go through all the paperwork and time to rearrange reservations and possibly not get another paying customer in. As long as everything is up front and clear, I don't see a problem with it. My two cents.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'm misreading your post, but the commissioner backed out almost a month after he paid the deposit (according to the messages, he paid approx. May 25th, and requested a refund after June 22nd). After that amount of time, there should be no refunds on a deposit, no matter the deposit amount. He's essentially taken up a chunk of time that could have been given to other commissioners (and thankfully was after he backed out, but it potentially may not have been).

[ocelotish]

My thought is this that in addition to buying materials, the deposit is a deposit for the artist's time. What I mean by that is that they have to reserve a solid month or so for this commission so the artist will likely turn away other work. If the commissioner cancels, they're out that month's worth of work and pay. Now if it had been just five days (it was actually much more) and nothing had be purchased, I'd probably refund it (or a large portion of it), just because I haven't lost much opportunity in that five days. However, the artist would be entitled to keep all of it; at the end of the day, it's not their fault if the client is suffering from buyer's remorse.

TL;DR - The deposit is for work the artist might turn away too, so any refund they give is just out of the goodness of their heart. However, he tried to cancel it a good month and a half later, so the point is moot.

[badkitty.livejournal.com]

just a smidgen off topic..

do you have a queue posted anywhere that your commissioners can access?
so they can see their slot in line & see as work is completed?

[taelifoe.livejournal.com]

There's a link to her queue on her FA page: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/nightfell/

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I think your best bet might be just to refund him the 90 and wash your hands of it. I thought that downpayments on suits were to cover materials, which you clearly hadn't ordered since he backed out on you the first time. I don't like how he waffles like this at all and I appreciate the beware.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

Whoops! I see that you have refunded him. My apologies.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

I disagree with your point about down-payments, I think it was explained best here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/491080.html?thread=17738056#t17738056

It's awesome if an artist refunds in full but it's by no means expected. The same works for most services really, it's called a cancellation fee when it's not in the deposit.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

You're right and that makes just as much sense to me. I think I got my impression from simply reading the ToS for different makers as I don't do costume work for commission and I'm not actively in the market for purchasing one. ^^ Thanks for the correction!

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Good call. It's unfortunate that you had to repeat SEVERAL times what you said once before.. :| Beware well warranted. Nothing is worse than a customer that dosen't know what they want....

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Completely this! If you don't know what you want, either get a commission later or, if you're having trouble with an idea, let the artist think of it.

I've had to give time limits on slots because people would pay me and think it'd ok to take sometimes months to get back to me. I'd rather get to work right away.

[mushimagic.livejournal.com]

Man, this person just contacted me to get a quote just a few days ago... Blacklisted.

[torikonero.livejournal.com]

And this is why A_B exists. :3

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

It kinda puts me off how angry he got because someone went ahead of him when he decided to cancel. As soon as my time limit end, the slot is available to be resold. I can understand that it fells unfair, but that's what happens when you don't make up your mind (or, in other cases, don't reply to an artist)

[night-sky99.livejournal.com]

That is the part I cannot understand where the heck he is coming from. He ordered something, he canceled his order, so someone else went ahead of him because he canceled his damn order. What, did he expect to have the OP hold his place IN CASE he changed his mind or something?

[pariahsdream.livejournal.com]

I'm just confused how he got 8 months when I count four? Unless he's adding the additional to wait til October? Even so, them's the breaks. There's that oooooold saying, 'fast, cheap, good- pick two'. ;p

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

He's counting from May/June to January (the new deadline the OP gave him). :P

[pariahsdream.livejournal.com]

Ah, thanks! :)

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

No prob. :3 Entitled, impatient customers totally make me boggle. Their logic is just so... bwah.

[ogawaburukku.livejournal.com]

I thought that too! I like how he's apparently tired of waiting for things that haven't even happened yet. "I'll have waited a whole half year if by January you haven't finished this! How dare you make me wait like that... maybe possibly!"

[michikip.livejournal.com]

Oh wow they did that to you?

This person just recently commissioned me for a set of handpaws.
They tried to back out but I had already purchased materials so they said to still do it.

I guess I'm not surprised, they seemed very flaky when I was dealing with him.

[neive.livejournal.com]

That makes you another to speak up in here about being approached recently. Maybe he's just spam contacting fursuit artists without really thinking about it? That would explain some of the flakiness and constant mind changing if he's trying to proposition and make deals with so many people. :I

[michikip.livejournal.com]

Yea probably, that's ridiculous though.

Hopefully he doesn't try to back out on me again. I won't let him if he does since I'm already almost done with his handpaws. aha.

[cissa.livejournal.com]

Make sure you are paid in full before sending anything. Preferably in a way that does not allow charge-backs.

[michikip.livejournal.com]

Oh yea, I already got paid in full for them.

[ocelotish]

Ugh, serious case of buyer's remorse going on there. It's a pity that you are refunding the $90, but it's probably worth it to be rid of him. He really doesn't seem to understand that you are trying to make money and keep the slots full and that at some point you have to take action based on his decisions.

[ogawaburukku.livejournal.com]

Did I read this wrong, or did this person back out because they found a cheaper artist?? I think that is incredibly rude! It's not YOUR services they want, just anyone's will do... This guy doesn't think anything through. I would not have refunded their money, so you are a better person than I am.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

OT, but I keep seeing your icon and love it so much. :o Who did it?

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

Oh wow thats just annoying. You really shouldnt have refunded him, in my opinion. But eh, what can ya do.