Beware: Khait / Pilferneko

[nicolyrezk.livejournal.com]

WHO: Khait on Tapestries, pilferneko on FA

WHERE: I commissioned them through Tapestries

WHAT: It was a large picture of 12 chibi-style red pandas (and 1 regular panda) having a Panda Pool Party

WHEN: I commissioned the piece at the beginning of june.

PROOF: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9577239/khaitproblem.jpg

EXPLAIN: At the beginning of june, I commissioned Khait. She wanted the full payment before she was willing to start. Immediately, she began to pester me heavily for payment, saying she wanted to start it and on the 18th, I was able to pay her. After a few weeks of inaction, I started to ask for updates, sending a quick note every few days, as she seemed very eager to work yet there was nothing coming. I eventually received a rough sketch and then some lines, but it was harder and harder to get any progress.

Finally, at the beginning of august, during an emotional fit, she decided she didn't want to do it anymore and told me she was dropping me as a customer. A week later, as there was no refund, I asked where one was and was told that, not only am I not getting a full refund, but that I am going to have to wait until september. They haven't told me how much money I am getting back from what I paid, but I get the feeling it won't be much.

And asking for the specific date on which I'd get my refund led to accusations of wherein I was asked if I 'felt big for attacking a woman' and that I was 'shaking her down'.

This whole thing has been an ordeal and although they say they aren't going to do art anymore, they've done this before but when they've needed money, they've looked for people to commission, so I feel that putting out this warning about my situation is needed.

Am I wrong for wanting a full refund, seeing as they decided to cancel my commission and haven't done much work on it?

Comments

[hamburger.livejournal.com]

If you have any screencaps of your discussions with this person, that would be appreciated.

[nicolyrezk.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, most of the discussion happened on Tapestries and I didn't think to save any screenshots or anything.

I didn't think this would end up happening, as we seemed to be on pretty good terms :x

[ellonwye.livejournal.com]

It's difficult to make any kind of call on situations where we don't get to see any of the discussion. To you, you may have been the most patient and understanding commissioner in the world, but it's very often the case that people don't recognise that they are causing a problem.

I'm not saying this is true of you, it's just something we see a lot that makes these things hard to judge.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

If she showed you any progress at all, then no, you shouldn't get a full refund no matter how rude she is.

[spyral-out.livejournal.com]

Even though she's the one who called off the work in the first place?

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I thought it was fairly common to give a full refund if the artist broke off the arrangement, but I could see both sides of the debate.

[spyral-out.livejournal.com]

In other cases, maybe, but not in this one. If what the OP says is true - and we're just answering his question based on what evidence he gave, I am aware - it sounds like she was just trying to mooch, slapped together something to get what she could out of it, and is playing the victim card.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

I think I'd say that if she stopped work at a presentable stage (full sketch, fully inked or flat colour), then a full refund is not warranted. But if the stage shown was not at a good stopping point and she called it off there, then sure, a full refund could be reasonably asked for. But that's me.

The artists' side

[shyuehwa.livejournal.com]

I was commissioned on June 18th, 2011 by Arcturus for a panda pool party, the set amount was $25, I no longer have logs of this. I began working on it that week a little, I am a pretty slow artist. ( I can screen shot this transaction if necessary to prove the date.)

I was slow going in July due to being violently ill for most of the month, no excuse for a lack of progress I understand, but at the time he was alright with it, I kept him updated, mostly due to him talking to me daily, some times multiple times, even when no progress was available and showed him progress when available. Sometime during this period I agree to coloring it after the original agreement because I honestly could not remember if I agreed to or not : I'm willing to make the assumption I did to keep the customer happy.

Monday August 1st rolls around and there is a change in the commission just needs to be colored, which shouldn't take me too long I figure, another day or two tops. His demeanor changes and becomes aggressive and insulting. I do become annoyed because I don't think there is any need to belittle or try to publicly shame anyone and tell him I will not be finishing his commission.

On Tuesday August 9th we speak again, he never asks how much of a refund he is getting, due to the commission being fully drawn and inked, I have no intention of giving him a full refund, I've never mentioned a full refund or made allusions to it. Instead of asking about the refund details - He demands a full refund and will accept nothing less. He threatens to go to artist beware and publicly slips details about this private transaction to cause more drama then necessary. Instead of being civil and talking, he immediately gloats about going to artist beware.

I only removed the money from my Paypal account because we had a previous positive transaction, and I figured everything would be fine. I'm still surprised at his change in demeanor and will refund him *part* of his money - $10 as soon as I get a deposit into my account which can take quite a while given that I do not have a steady income and have closed my commission status due to university starting back up very soon.

Re: The artists' side

[shyuehwa.livejournal.com]

http://shyuehwa.blogspot.com/2011/08/proof-of-work-completed.html On a side note, there is his commission at the sketched and ink stage of completion. With a layer of stuff that still requires clean up ; his version (that he will be emailed the full size image at the time I can refund) is completed and cleaned.

[wyngaed.livejournal.com]

I don't know if she has a ToS, but a lot of artists like to outline what refunds will be like. I personally would not give a full refund if work had been done- even if I was the one to cancel it. If I felt I could no longer work with the customer I would give them the work I had completed and the money for what I hadn't yet done.

Re: The artists' side

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Thank you for coming to A_B to express your side of the story.

Re: The artists' side

[shyuehwa.livejournal.com]

Well everything has two sides, and I figured people could come and make an opinion on this situation.

Re: The artists' side

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Also yes, (thank you LJ for cutting me off) - anything extra you may have aside from the completed work to show your side of this arrangement, please present it.

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

If they've done work on the commission, then yes you are wrong for expecting a full refund.

They haven't told me how much money I am getting back from what I paid, but I get the feeling it won't be much.

Well you spent $25, which is a pretty sweet deal for 13 characters, then getting a partial refund of that is not going to be a huge amount, no.

Finally, at the beginning of august, during an emotional fit,

Even if the artist hadn't posted her side, this sort of wording would make me side-eye your story.

[feanyx.livejournal.com]

It's rather convenient you picked a place like Tapestries to discuss this stuff with her... a place you'll get banned from for posting logs, amirite?

[mazz.livejournal.com]

The artist posted their side as a reply to the entry.

I'd not give a full refund to him. She seems to have a legit reason for stopping the commission.
--

If the artist just up and stops without cause than I'd expect a full refund but they didn't just up and stop.

Re: The artists' side

[mazz.livejournal.com]

I'd avoid using a place you can keep logs to discuss commissions. That way if this happens again you have the logs of it available. It also will make it so you can know if you agreed to color or not. If it becomes habit people may try to take advantage of you.
It would have also made this beware a lot easier to understand as we don't actually know what was exchanged in conversation.

Its' better for your records to conduct business in notes/emails that can be logged.

[hamburger.livejournal.com]

Considering the circumstances, I am going to be removing the 'beware' tag for now. But adding a tag for the commissioner.

Re: The artists' side

[ellonwye.livejournal.com]

Hmm I did get the impression this would be an example of an overbearing commissioner.

[mekania.livejournal.com]

Since there's no proof of anything it's really hard to say who's in the right here.

But! I'm of the firm belief that whoever cancels the commission should be the one to take the loss. I'm a commissioner who almost never commissions sketches or inks so I would be really pissed off if I bought a full colored commission and the artist decided that I would only get a sketch and some money back.

Every industry has to deal with unpleasant customers and this one is no different. You can either decline/refund their money or finish what's been agreed to and tell them to never contact you again. The artist is the one with the power in this situation since they have both the money and the service/product so being able to just drop something and keep the money doesn't exactly seem fair.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

"She wanted the full payment before she was willing to start. Immediately, she began to pester me heavily for payment, saying she wanted to start it"

You realise wanting full payment up front is completely normal? Especially if you grabbed a commission slot, yes, of course that the artist is going to want payment so they can start the work. This is in case you turn out to be a deadbeat - as OFTEN happens - who says "oh yeah sure I'll have a slot" *silence* *silence* "yeah definitely still want it! Will pay soon!" *silence* "Oh lol sorry no moneys~ next time lol!"

If I had a dollar for every time someone did that...I'd probably have $20. :P

[feanyx.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I didn't want to get super uppity on this board, but the artist was telling me some of the things that were happening WHEN they were happening. I told her she should post a beware article for the commissioner, since he has a habit of doing this to people. If she could have posted the logs here in the first place (and I told her to please ask the mods for permission), none of this would have ever been an issue. It's disgusting what he could have gotten away with.

[nicolyrezk.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but what?

I'm always very patient when it comes to artwork, willing to wait for a very long period of time.

I also give the artist a lot of freedom and creative licence to draw my characters in the way that best fits them, even if it means changing me a little.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

If you're so patient and willing to wait, why did the artist have reason to ask if you 'felt big for attacking a woman' and that you were 'shaking her down'? She wouldn't say that kind of thing out of the blue, I'm sure.