Artist/Builder Beware!!!

[avianmaverick.livejournal.com]

(**DISCLAIMER** Before you go on trying to defend this person, let me just say that this is my personal experience with her.)

WHO: Jessica Hope (On Facebook)/PoprockGrey (on FA)

WHERE: Facebook

WHAT: Crow Wings

WHEN: December 31, 2010 - August 15, 2011

PROOF:

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Firststage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/SecondStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/ThirdStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/FourthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/FifthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/SixthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/SeventhStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/EighthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/NinthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/TenthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at50745PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at50808PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at51058PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103653PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103718PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103748PM.png

 

EXPLAIN: Ok, so what had happened here was I commissioned Poprock back in December for some crow wings. I was having a different builder make a head for me, so I thought it’d be a good idea to make a collaboration of multiple builders for a partial suit. Poprock was saying, at the time, that she was really desperate for commissions, so I thought I could help her out by hiring her. I was talking with her on Second Life about the commission I had in mind, and even modeling it after a different builders design. When I asked for a price quote, she said that it would cost me $125, which I thought was a reasonable price. Afterwards, I asked Poprock how long it would take to make them, and she said that it would only take a couple of months to do. So, from there I sent her a duct tape dummy of my arm, and an envelope containing the down payment for my wings. ($50) In about 2 weeks she began working on the wings and had a livestream video of her working on the wings. In a couple of days she sent me a picture of the progress of the wings. They looked pretty rough so I hoped that they’d look better over time, and in all honesty I was just happy that I was getting the commission made. Periodically, I would check in to see if any progress was made on the wings. At first I was asking once a week because I was really excited having this commission done. Poprock told me, whenever I asked, that no progress had been made on them since the livestream video. I started asking less often because I wanted to give her some space and not put any pressure on her. 

A month passes and I ask about the progress of my wings. She again says that no progress has been made. When the next month passes, she asks on Facebook for some money so that she could buy something. Out of generosity, I gave her that money and we both agreed that it would be put towards paying off my wings. ($35) I was hoping that by paying her a little more to what I owed, that it would motivate her to work on my wings. To my disappointment, another month passes and zero progress has been made. Yet again, she asks for money for another thing (which I don’t know what it was) so I gladly obliged and paid her the remainder of the money on my wings. ($40) Of course I was hoping that some progress was made on my wings by now...she tells me that barely anything had been done. I was remaining patient as possible with her because I knew that if I said the wrong thing, she’d probably get mad at me and take even longer on making them. It’s around April 2011 this time, and I ask her if she could give me a deadline on when the wings might be finished. At first she tells me that she’ll have them done by the end of the month. As April came to a close, I asked if she was almost done, and Poprock told me that only one wing was done, but I would have to wait a bit longer. Also, to state, there were multiple times when she was guilt tripping me by explaining why the wings were taking so long, and she even offered me a full refund in May because she was feeling really upset about some stuff. Being a nice guy, I told her that I was willing to wait for the wings instead. (I fell for her guilt trip) 

Eventually, she told me that the new deadline would be at Anthrocon 2011. Even as the days drew closer to Anthrocon, I still asked if any progress had been made on the wings. She dodged the question by saying they’d be done by Anthrocon. So, Anthrocon arrives and I eagerly wait to finally pick up my wings at Poprock’s booth. When I get there, she tells me that they aren’t done. She goes on to say that she has a bunch of commissions in progress, that she was booked until Christmas, and that she’d fit my wing commission “in there, somewhere”. In other words, it wasn’t a priority to her. Let it be noted that she constantly was asking for more commissions as each month went by, while my wings remained untouched. Nearly a month after Anthrocon goes by and I asked if she had done anything with my wings. Wonder of wonders, nothing had been done at all. So, what did I do? I spent 2 hours online talking to her trying to motivate her to work on my wings and other people’s commissions. She agreed to that, and I was glad that some progress was about to be made. One more month goes by, and I ask...she tells me nothing’s been done. 

In this 8 month timespan, only one wing was finished and the other one hadn’t even been started on. At this point, my patience ran thin and I had to ask for a refund. She was highly confused by this and didn’t understand why. I explained to her that I was tired of waiting for them. Poprock flips out on me and begins asking all of these questions of why I didn’t say anything. I told her that I was trying to be a nice guy, but in all honesty, I was being too lenient with her. So she tells me that she’s only going to give me 30% back of what I paid once she sells the wings to someone else. First off, how many crows are out there who have the exact same arm size as me, and want the wings? Secondly, only 30%?! I paid her to do a service and she didn’t provide the service at all! 

Eventually, I found out that she’s been manipulating other furs as well. Apparently, all of the commissions she was asking people to take from her, were just excuses so she could take the money from them and run off with it. There have been multiple reports from people who commissioned her, where they’ve been waiting up to two years for a commission. Not only that, some people didn’t even get a refund or any kind of update from her. She would often get pissed at them when they asked for an update and she would even go as far as to block them from all form of contact. 14 other people have reported cases similar to mine. In addition to that, some people who actually got the commissions from her were highly disappointed. One of the suits she made at a con even fell apart. The stitching was bad and it couldn’t even hold itself up for a second.

Sorry that this is so long, but all of this had to be explained in explicit detail so I could warn others of this horrible experience I had with this builder. I really worked hard to try and be her friend, but she was just using me the entire time. On one final note, I found out from a friend that Poprock was taking about me behind my back at Otakon and she told him that I hadn’t paid for my wings in full and that I was being extremely rude to her and pressuring her for the wings. Both of these statements are completely false! So that’s my experience here. Please, PLEASE, beware of her!

Comments

Removal?

[lukesilvertail.livejournal.com]

Okay now can we get this beware removed?

Obviously OP is not being truthful in his statements, has been here at least one other time and has not done what the mods have asked (the lj-cut) nor has he offered anything further as proof for his claims. Also what he offers as proof is just little snips of facebook messages and is not posting them in full (which shows me that OP has something to hide and does not want it to come out.) so we are not getting the full story here nor is he providing any solid proof about the claims he is making about the work of Poprock (at this point I do not believe these 14 people even exist). I also do not understand him saying he needed the money for him losing his job but goes to another builder and is getting a new commission for the wings.

These are just some of the points that I have seen on here that, to me, discredits this beware and OP. Unless he comes back and address the cut and the above reasons I have pointed out (and what others have pointed out) then I do not see the purpose of this beware. If one of the mods want to point something out that they need to see before the removal of the beware, I would like to know about it this way not only does OP know but so does the artist in question know what it is going to take to get this resolved and taken down.

Re: Removal?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Please read the rules if you're going to participate. We do not delete posts here.

Re: Removal?

[lukesilvertail.livejournal.com]

Okay sorry for that.

Re: Removal?

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

The lack of truth in anything the OP is stating will eventually come to light - and pretty much has. It has been pretty much acknowledged that there were indeed screw ups on both sides of the coin here in this particular beware, but the fact that the OP needed to rely on things such as hearsay to attempt to pad his claims had long discredited him, since he has refused to back these claims up when called on them as of yet.

So like kayla_la said, the post cannot come down for community reasons, but why take it down? Its a good of a record of a beware for the OP as well as the builder, if not better since the OP pretty much shot himself in the foot here.

Re: Removal?

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

A lot of people don't read the comments though, and even reading through the comments there are plenty of "OMG it fell apart?! Thanks for the warnings!" never mind those that read but don't comment so I don't agree that this discredited the OP. Maybe we can add a beware tag for him too?

That said, I think if the artist made their own beware, that would probably solve many things, though it might also remind people of this post when they would have otherwise forgotten.

Re: Removal?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I think that would likely backfire.

And I'm not just saying that because I think the artist deserved this beware (really, 8 months, 3 dropped deadlines, no new completion date in site, and a 30% refund that they're too broke to give right now anyway??) Retaliatory beware posts seldom look great, even when the artist is 100% clear, which this one isn't.

Re: Removal?

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

Just look at this screenshot:
http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103718PM.png
What you are repeating is from the OP, not the evidence. Does what you're saying reflect what was really said by the artist?

I think your comment proves my point, namely what I said in my own thread here:
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/501381.html?thread=18168709#t18168709

I'm not going to say that the dropped deadlines aren't a problem, but the artist was in contact the whole time AND she offered a full refund. Her 3 choices are all completely reasonable (I'm assuming that the 30% comes with the work thus far and materials) and have been suggested on A_B before as a means of resolution. He was offered a full refund 4 months in, so even that was on the table.

Re: Removal?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yes this is from the artist as well:
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/501381.html?thread=18088581#t18088581

OP was being a doormat but I don't think that's a great excuse to do that to someone.

And the evidence right there is that if OP wants a refund (do you really blame them after waiting another 4 months and the wings are only half done???) they can either take 30% or wait for the wings to be finished and sold, which is kind of the original problem: when the heck are these wings going to be finished??

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/501381.html?thread=18099333#t18099333

Artist dodges the question of "when" but says it's not the first project on the list.

Re: Removal?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

The fact Poprock kept brushing off the OP's commission and doing other stuff and treating it like it wasn't important kind of made it a valid beware against her for me, and it wasn't something the OP was lying about, either.

That said, I'm not too impressed with the OP. I wouldn't work with either of them. But the OP doing what he has doesn't suddenly make this an invalid beware.

THAT said, I figure a lot of the people who would bother to use AB to research are going to read the comments, especially when there's 200+ of them. They're going to want to know why so many people commented.

Re: Removal?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Personally I wouldn't avoid the OP over what I see here so far, but that's partially because I'm pretty obsessed with getting things taken care of quickly. I just don't take commissions unless I know I'll be able to work on them within a week, and be fairly confident in giving a deadline I can meet.

Not saying artists shouldn't do that stuff if they're reliable and communicative about it, just that I choose not to because I'm a bit obsessive and hate having a paid job if I'm not working on it.

(and if folks want to avoid the OP because they feel like OP wouldn't tell them if they were unhappy in a useful fashion, that's understandable too)

Re: Removal?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I actually asked him many times if it was ok. Each time it was fine.

I also would have posted more of the reasons that I was taking so long but I didn't want people to say I was trying to throw a pity party.

Re: Removal?

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

I completely agree some people fudge up and don't read comments (look at all of the 'wtf why no lj-cut' comments in this post. 8|) but I don't know, if I walked into a post like this one and saw 200+ comments - I'd figure it was something that deserved a little more investigation. You never know if additional evidence/artist's side is in the comments like this post has. Of course you can't force someone to read comments, but you can only hope they have the sense to.

As for Poprock trying to make their own beware - I think the only one they could feasibly get away with (and this is pushing it) is one against the maker apparently harassing them and her business (with substantial evidence to back up the story of course) anything else will look like 'grudge post'.

Re: Removal?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

This "harassment" issue the artist went through, I didn't think the OP was involved in that? I thought it a lot of other people who harassed her and it made her need a break from commissions? So I guess a beware post on that wouldn't be against the OP?

The worst thing I see the OP doing is saying a bunch of other people have had trouble with the maker and not backing it up. That is pretty bad if it's not true, but since the OP hasn't come back I just don't know what to think about it. Looking at this situation it seems possible the artist tends to attract clients who might not tell her if they are unhappy. That's not really the artist's fault, just sayin it might not be a a lie even though poprock don't know much about it. Or maybe it is. Also, according to other comments the artist has had other troubles in pokemon collector's community, so I give a little more weight to the possibility that it's not totally made up. I'm essentially ignoring it and just dealing with the things both sides have confirmed.

The OP's other problems are of course, asking the artist for a refund "out of the blue" and not sticking around here to answer questions and back up their beware. No idea why OP didn't come back so, again not really sure if I should hold it against them. Maybe they're lazy or don't have proof, or maybe they just have a really hard time dealing with conflict - not a great excuse, but again, doesn't make the beware invalid.

I don't think the refund request is unreasonable, but they should have phrased it more of a "enough's enough, please finish this commission in a month or else give me a refund" rather than just a sudden "everything's cool no wait refund desperately needed now plz". On the other hand, I don't think that justifies the deal the maker's offered them.

Re: Removal?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

OP was involved, hence why I was a little uneasy to take his commission. He may have been trying to be neutral, but he was still involved and I had asked him multiple times before to drop it.

What I found to be especially hurtful is he claims he needed the money because he was broke and life was sucking for him. Then I find out he commissioned someone else (The harasser in the past) to make the wings.

Re: Removal?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I'm still not sure that nullifies the main issue I have with this situation, (that it's been 8 months and still no completion date set and no refund, but I've about beat that into the ground), but it does speak against the OP if he was actively attacking you while you were trying to work on your commission. You were asked before, do you have any proof of this you can post?
Do you have any proof he commissioned someone else and lied about why he wanted a refund after? (Again, not the biggest issue here in my book but it is shady too)

Re: Removal?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

Yup, I posted it above.

I however do not have others since again, my FB's have been in constant attack from these harassers and it keeps getting flagged off.

Re: Removal?

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Do you mean this? http://s1188.photobucket.com/albums/z408/greypoprocks/?action=view¤t=Dextcrow.png

Does avianmaverick = Rodger Garland? Are there other shots I'm missing?

I'm still not seeing a timeline here - when did OP commission the wings? Could he have fallen on hard times* /after/ commissioning this other maker?

*on a professional level it doesn't really matter why he's asking for a refund but blatantly lying about why is shady

Re: Removal?

[mekania.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure she means the post by Dexter Young saying he's working on crow wings.

I think poprock_grey may be upset with the OP because this is the suit maker she was fighting with? That may also explain why the OP made up a story for what he needed money for in order to not make her mad/hurt her? I don't know the drama in this situation is hard to follow without evidence and really should have no bearing on the transaction anyway.

Re: Removal?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

100% no to the hard time after the other commission. He lost his job either right before or after AC. Only just recently (as in the same time frame of cancelling with me) did he commission the other person for the wings.
While I understand that shouldn't matter, I had thought of him as a friend so it stung bad. Especially when he knew Dexter was the ring leader of the harassment.

Re: Removal?

[lukesilvertail.livejournal.com]

OKay sorry for this but I have just read all of the other comments and understand why not. I hope that people do read this and all the comments with it to see that OP was the one that did nto back up his reasons with fact.

Re: Removal?

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

Since what you suggest is against the rules maybe instead the artist will write their own beware linking this one? That would solve some of the issues of people not coming back and reading the comments.

Re: Removal?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the suggestion, and I was considering it. However I also remember seeing something like this happening before and the artist was made to look worse off.

Honestly, I don't want anymore of that. Even if the beware of the person was warrented, I feel people will see this and go "But wait, are you sure she wasn't just making things up to make the other person look bad?".