Warning; Possible Scam

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I was contacted by zerosonic on FA for a commission. They had asked for my prices, and I told them. We had a lenghty discussion, and many, many notes on their subject and set up for their commission. Like all commissions I take, I asked for the payment once we had decided what the commission would be. The price did not change from the price I gave him at the beginning, which he agreed to.

He replied with a simple 'ok', so I figured he had sent payment. I checked the next day, because I had been using my Wii. He hadn't sent it, so I sent off another note asking if he had, that I hadn't gotten it, and if he hadn't sent it, to do so. I got another okay in response.

So I sent off another note being a little more firm, telling him I require payment within 24 hours of the agreed commission and that he would have to send it or I would cancle his slot. Another ok.

Lastly I fired off a 'slot cancled' note, and he responded that he didn;t have the funds to pay for commissions right now. I have no idea if he was trying to scam me or not, but I figured I'd put a warning out anyways, as I have been scammed in this exact way before.

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Why on earth would he ask and then just keep responding with 'ok' if he didn't have the money? Shady, I'll watch out for him, thanks!

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Just curious, but how did you get scammed this way before?

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Way back in 03 or 04 when I was just starting out commissions, I gave small res finished products and then asked for payment. Apparently a small res was good enough, and the person just kept responding like this guy, and then finally told me he couldn't afford it.

It was my fault, of course. I have never drawn without payment up front since then.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

While it's rude to act as he did, this isn't really a scam. No money was exchanged, thankfully. It's just weird and he should have told you he couldn't pay. This sort of thing happens from time to time.

Have you told him you posted him here?

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

He wanted me to draw without him paying pretty much, or so it seemed. Like I said, I'm not sure if he was really trying to scam me or not, but he does have a lot of commissions bought, and I wanted to warn people in case it was.

It's extreme sketchy because he agreed to the price, and then said 'ok' as in yes, he was sending the money. The price did not change from the original quoted $35, which he agreed to.

And no, I have not.

[night-sky99.livejournal.com]

The person was trying to scam the OP, so I guess technically it was not an actual scam since no money was exchanged but it was a potential scam nonetheless. It seems to me that the person was hoping that the OP would think the "ok" message meant that he had sent the money and the OP would do the work without ever having been paid. That's why it is always good to wait for the money before starting the work since someone, like this commissioner, could say they sent it without having done so and the artist would do the work without ever getting paid for it.

It was a scam in the process, so still a scam.

[web-wyvern.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a troll to me. More annoying but less severe then a scammer.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

He has lots of purchased commissions in his gallery, I don't think he was trying to troll me.

[shiftergoddess.livejournal.com]

I actually had someone do this exact same thing to me last week for one of my adoptables. He sent the payment but not all of it, so i told him i wouldn't send him the high res file until i got the full payment, so he sent me an echeck (i didn't know until he sent the payment otherwise i would not have accepted it) and i told him i wouldn't send the file until payment finished pending.
The day before it would have finished, i get a note saying it was canceled and nothing from him. I noted to ask him and he said "it was his banks fault but wouldn't have the funds to pay for another week or two". Welp, suffice it to say, the adoptable went back up as available and i've heard nothing from him since.

I'm rather wary of people who take up slots and then days later say "oh well i don't have the funds atm." Most people, including myself, don't hold slots without at least some payment. :|
Scam or not, i'm going to write this one down.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

I don't get why you agree to a commission. I've asked people a month in advance if they have commissions open when I get paid and the only time I cancel is if something comes up but I let them know BEFORE they even put me onto a list.

Sometimes shit comes up but knowing you won't have the money "in 3 days" means don't ask.

[shariea.livejournal.com]

He contacted me for a commission as well. It was kinda hard to draw out what he wanted from me. I eventually gave him the pricing after sending notes back and forth. He still wasnt very clear, so gave him the general idea. He said 'okay' and that was the last I have heard.

So no, he didnt just do that to you.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Did you get payment from him? I'm sure you're not, but don't draw until you do get it.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

This happens all the time. I am constantly having conversations consisting of five or ten notes back and forth about character details and then get "oh I don't get paid until Friday. Please hold my slot!" Then when Friday rolls around I have to hound the person and get "oh I only have $2 after paying my bills, sorry."

Not exactly the same wording as yours but similar. I think your guy likes talking about his characters with a captive audience. He may even think he has the money but doesn't check before contacting you. The problem is these people either manage their money poorly or simply don't take artists' commission process seriously as a business transaction.

I don't think it was a scam. Just a disorganized person who doesn't respect artists' business processes. All too common.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

IDK. I don't really see this as a scam. I don't do work until I -know- they paid me. Otherwise, I cancel the spot after waiting for a few days.

This would be a good reminder to double or triple check that a buyer has PAID you before you work on something.

:)

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Like I said, I didn't do any work for him. I never do work without the cash.

[night-sky99.livejournal.com]

See, I do see this as scam. Regardless of whether the person was actually trying to scam the OP, just seeing if they could get free art, or was just being stupid, it is still a scam.
By replying "ok," to a less seasoned artist or a trusting person, it would seem like the person had sent the money and work may be started. He was being dishonest and trying to scheme his way to get artwork without paying. He should have stated right up front that he did not have the funds for the work, or made it clear that he was just shopping around.
If you knowingly start a commission when you know you don't have the funds and without working out a payment plan with the artist, I consider that a scam. It's basically the same as going to a sit-down restaurant, ordering and eating the food, and then when the bill comes, saying "Oh, I actually don't have any money to pay for the food."

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Depending on what they were talking about too, they may not have ever have wanted a commission at all. I've got one person who pages me on a Muck who never actually wants to exchange money, they just want to talk about their fabulous ideas and want you to think they're SO CLEVER that you'll draw their awesome fetish artwork for free. So, maybe they were just looking to talk about their Awesome Idea^tm and not actually pay for anything. It's not a scam, just time wasting and annoying.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

He was pretty straight forward that he wanted one. He even asked about the payment options (if he could pay in USD and I'm pretty sure he asked if I took paypal).

[millislim.livejournal.com]

I would also agree this isn't necessarily a beware about the customer but more of a warning about a growing trend in the fandom. I understand the need to shop around for the best prices but to waste the time of an artist when you have no intention of paying immediately is rude, insulting, and entitled. I'm not saying commissioners can't contact artists with questions but you don't go to a car dealership, request specs on every car for the next 3 hours and then say, "I never had the money to buy in the first place". Time is money in every business and most furry artists are already way underpaid. I'm not sure why the fandom has to be the exception to every rule.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Or at least be up front about it, "I don't have the money right now, but if I did, how much would x cost?" is perfectly acceptable.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I dunno if it's a scam as much as it is people being lax and disorganized and biting off more than they can chew financially because of attempted impulse buys.

I've had the same thing, people take up my time by telling me what they want, mailing me descriptions and then not paying promptly. I tell them "I'll get right on that, just as soon as you send a payment." then it's "Oh I don't get paid 'till the end of the month." and I tell them "Great, I'll start just as soon as I get a payment." and you never hear from them again.

Might be an idea to start posting these people as bewares so they'll stop wasting artists' time.

[synviver.livejournal.com]

Might be an idea to start posting these people as bewares so they'll stop wasting artists' time.

Speaking as an artist trying to get started building a client base, I second this idea on the grounds of *really* liking the idea of knowing if people are reliable or not.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Someone wanting art and when they can't afford it they don't just say, "oh I can't swing that right now I'll hit you up payday"

Some people commission way more art than they need to and furries have put themselves in debt for it.

[aurastarlucario.livejournal.com]

That's weird. o___0

[cappucola.livejournal.com]

I was reading some of the comments here and it looks like he's just bad at communicating in general. :S Not sure if he had scamming in mind, but yeah I agree with everyone else. He should of at least told you he couldn't pay right away instead of dragging it out and wasting your time.

[roocodendron.livejournal.com]

Well, maybe not scamming exactly, but I think I see what he was trying to do if indeed he was trying to do it.
I know I made the mistake once of doing up an icon for someone who was going to commission me (I did a couple other icons successfully the same way) but they said they didn't have the money, wanted me to save their spot 'til Friday or something, and I never heard from them again. Some people who take money after the art is done, same with sketches, certain people will try things like this. It reminds me of trades where one gets art but never receives theirs in return.

Definitely wasted your time though if he didn't have the money/intention of paying/commissioning you.

[ogawaburukku.livejournal.com]

This happens all the time. I don't think it really needs to be on here, since if he was trying to get free art from you he was using a really lousy tactic. I get this more with my non-art sales... People will ask me to hold items until their paycheck comes i. Maybe 20% of those people ever actually get around to ordering anyfhing. This happens a lot with buyers in their teens,

[zatanna-333.livejournal.com]

Disagree with the people saying this isn't scammy. I'm sorry, but if you agree on prices and then just say 'ok' to all notes before being pressed and THEN saying 'I don't have the money', that is shady. Either they knew right away that they didn't have the cash or something emergency had happened to them, in which case they could have sent an 'ok - sorry I can't do this, emergency'. It's basic adult responsibility.

I see where people want to chalk it up to poor communication because somehow that is acceptable, but look at how many cases are in this community where people have commissioned folks and then had 'emergencies' where they couldn't pay. The sheer amount of people that do work w/o payment is astounding...if just 1 of 20 approached artists do that, well worth the time of the scammer to give it a go.

[saitenyo.livejournal.com]

I think it's giving the general public too much credit to assume this person would know right away whether or not they have the money. I've seen so many people in this genre end up in debt because of art impulse buys or because they just don't pay attention to their finances, that I would not be remotely surprised if that were the case here.

That said I don't personally think it makes it any more "acceptable" if the person was just disorganized vs. trying to scam the artist. I mean sure it's less actively shady, but I still don't want to do business with someone who can't take things like payment seriously, regardless of whether their lack of action is intentional or absent-minded.