artists_beware | Update: skullgrrl

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Update: skullgrrl

I had hoped that this next weekend I would post a "resolved" post but when I got home from my aunt's funeral tonight I found this message in my inbox:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6110810725/sizes/o/in/photostream/

She refers to a bad-dealings thread on taxidermy.net where the only new message I had posted in reply since posting here and getting to see this dispute nearly resolved was a link to her artists-beware post, pointing out how she had reacted to it. That was going to be my last post concerning her, plus the resolution post when I did get my plush. It seems the post was removed, and I have a few PMs on those forums urging me to post my warning again as my own warning, and not Bob's (I had only been replying to his post about his bad dealings with her to share my own).

Then I found this beauty:
(eta: gender slurs and threats of physical violence in link)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6116827145/sizes/o/in/photostream/
the top thread is from her fanpage on facebook and the very bottom of that image is from taxidermy.net. At the top she mentions giving me a day or so, and in her facebook PM the only thing she asks for is me removing my posts.

The images explain themselves, I think, but as I suspect from my first post on her:
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/502139.html
her local fans are up in arms.

I am unsure what to do at this point. Thoughts?

ETA: Rereading that thread, I do want to clarify the "stay at home artist with no kids" comment that gets mentioned about the other forum as it seems to be lost on some critics: I meant that she was just a stay at home artist, and could not use kids as a valid reason for not working as that would be an understandable reason to me.

ETA2: Re: "wasn't allowed in skullgrrl's group" message below (frozen by mods, due to insults), I was a member and left of my own freewill for personal reasons and then got harassed for it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6118557424/sizes/o/in/photostream/

ETA3: so after being temp-banned here for her behavior, she posts this:
http://furhideandbone.livejournal.com/1270163.html
She makes some untrue statements in the comments as well as the main post, though that should be obvious to everyone by now. If there is a comment or statement she made that you want my side to just let me know. She does mention that I apologized to her here in the comments for some reason but I did not do that, at all, as can be seen.

ETA4: she deleted that post on furhideandbone. It got to around 40 comments (that I have saved via email if they're needed for whatever reason), mostly of people telling her to cool off. She deleted it and reposted this:
http://furhideandbone.livejournal.com/1270627.html
So here is a screen cap of the "witch hunt" she deleted from there:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6119512262/sizes/o/in/photostream/

ETA5: I'm in the coffee shop now with nyaro and have picked up the plushie. Plushie-wise, this issue is resolved now. I'm in love all over again, it's like when I first got Babette who is my favorite ever.

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_{I'm finding a hard time taking anyone in that second link (with the gender slurs/threats of physical violence) seriously. I can't believe people can follow others so blindly. With EVERY comment I just ... agafgfghfgfff. I can't even properly express my rage and concern for their state of mental health.

I really hope you get you get your stuff and things get somewhat straightened out. Nobody deserves to get caught up in a shitstorm this bad.
And even if this entire beware was ~invalid~, her reaction is enough to make me steer way, wayyyyyyyyy clear of her. Someone linked her to the "WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU'RE POSTED ON A_B" thread but it's very obvious she didn't read it thoroughly or ... didn't think it applied to her.
It sucks to think that all of this, if handled with a bit of maturity and a straight head (not jumping the gun and throwing slurs and insults around) probably would have ended nicely. :/ Because, honestly, you were /one/ customer that was dissatisfied -- that happens to just about everyone, and it doesn't "ruin businesses" like she's making this out to be. However, her terrible attitude and tantrum is what caused a LOT more people to back up and not want to do business with her, from what I can see. I don't understand how people think reacting that was is in any way okay. ERK.

(Also: nice icon. :3)}

No one except Darien posted anything like what you have mentioned and I think we have a right to sympathize with someone we're friends with without people automatically assuming we're idiots. Also, how are we following her blindly? Are you telling me that if your friend had a temper tantrum you'd just decide you didn't like them anymore, even if you thought they had a somewhat valid reason for it? Heck, even if you didn't think they had a valid reason for it? My friends have been really stupid sometimes, but when it comes right down to it, they're good people who made mistakes. Do you not make mistakes?

I'm not saying I agree with how she handled the issue. But I do think she has a good reason for being upset, and honestly I'm upset about it too for her sake and for the group's sake.

And on top of that, I have met both Grygon and Skullgrrl in real life. Grygon lives in my city and I've interacted with her several times. If I choose to believe Darien, it's because I have reasons to do so, not because I'm following her blindly in my adoration of her work. This would apply to many of the others in the group too, as several of them have had the opportunity to meet Grygon or know her.

Honestly? If my friend started acting the way she's acting right now, I'd drop them in a heartbeat. Slurs? Threats of violence over a trade gone bad? No thanks, no one needs that in their life! That's just not how a decent human being behaves.

Like I said, I don't agree with her methodology. But anger is a powerful thing and it took her way too far. And I know for a fact she regrets it. That is enough for me, especially since I know she would not actually have done anything to Grygon. And especially since in spite of how angry she is, she's still going through with her side of the deal.

And if she had asked any of us to do anything for her in regards to this issue, I would've lost respect for her and probably quietly stayed out of it. But she didn't ask any of us to do anything. And we got dragged into it from the beginning anyways, without her ever having to even say a word about it. Grygon mentions from the start that she fears our group will get angry with her and uses us as "proof" against Grygon...so. This is also an attack against us. We had no chance even from the beginning because Grygon has already set us up as Darien's horrible empty-headed followers.

And I'm sorry if it seems odd to you that that would bother me, but it does. I am not stupid. I do not mindlessly follow. I do not revere artists, no matter how much I love their art. I decided to side with a friend, not only because we were already lumped in with her, but because when I compare the two Darien is the better person. I already had issues with Grygon before this, concerning myself and two other friends of mine. It is no surprise to me at all that Darien is having issues with her too.

you had no chance, even from the beginning? nobody here automatically decided you and your friends were evil people unworthy of a fair shake just because of one post by grygon.

i totally empathize with you in the sense that you want to defend your friend, especially since she is temporarily banned from here because of her conduct. but at the end of the day, a_b is no one's personal army. if skullgrrl had been rational and retained control of herself and posted her side of the story, the people here are nobody's pets and would have been able to piece together their own opinions.

as it stands, i'm not even 100% sure of what exactly went on, i have no idea what skullgrrl's story is, and i honestly do not care. her conduct and reaction and totally out of hand behaviour toward people who left advice or questions on her fhb thread is what ultimately coloured my opinion of her. if we hypothetically find out grygon is lying about everything under the sun, i would still never do business with skullgrrl. and that is of her own creation.

I guess it would be fairer to say I resent us being used against Darien from the beginning.

I know. :/ I wish she'd behaved differently but what's done is done. I've been trying to keep my comments mainly to putting right any errors regarding myself and my friends, but it's hard not to include Darien in that too.

And if I were in your shoes, I would feel the same way. I can't fault anyone for that. And I don't at all. I understand perfectly where you're coming from.

If anything people would have been more than eager to take Skullgrrl's side of the story since Grygon's already got some kind of bad rep. Not saying that's the right thing to happen but I'm pretty sure it would have.

The problem is that she's still doing bad things, like the fur hide and bone post where she's constantly deleting comments aside from those of a mod. A good friend would sit her down and tell her to calm down for her own sake and the sake of her business. Consider doing this, if you haven't already.

Yeah. I didn't know about the latest of this until last night. I have spoken with her. As far as I know, she's calmed down a lot. However, I do not know all of the places this altercation has been posted to, so I don't know if she's stopped completely or not.

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bubonicapple.livejournal.com - 2011-09-06 20:34 (UTC) - Expand

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frequentlynyaro.livejournal.com - 2011-09-06 22:22 (UTC) - Expand

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bubonicapple.livejournal.com - 2011-09-06 22:26 (UTC) - Expand

Eh, I only skimmed the screen shots but what I did read looked innocent enough as far as the "friends" were concerned - actually I saw a lot less mindless butt-patting and frothing than I expected.
Yeah if a friend is behaving badly I understand when people might try to be sympathetic without being encouraging of the behavior. There's a difference between "man that sucks" and "OMG YES I HATE THEIR GUTS IF I WERE YOU I WOULD EAT THEIR BABIES" bla bla bla

That being said, if a friend of mine was behaving as badly as skullgrrl (and yeah no matter what the provocation her responses here and at the other com are bizarre and unprofessional) I would either drop them or, if I felt they were worth it, try to tell them as politely as possible to cool it, or else ignore it.

haha, you're way more patient than me, dogg. if a friend of mine was acting this way i wouldn't be polite about it at allllll. (something along the lines of WHAT ARE YOU DOING/WHY ARE YOU DOING IT)

(also hi it's skullsquid i was a pseudo-beta for one of your watchmen fics once. fancy meeting you hurr!)

I would also point out here, a minor but important detail, that meeting me and knowing me are two totally different cans of worms. With the short interactions I've ever had with this group, there is no way any of them know me.

I use "know" in the loosest terms, I assure you. :)

_{No, I understand where you're coming from and I've done the same thing in the past. I've made it a point to kind of take a step back from getting directly in the middle of things like that, because getting involved and getting riled up along with the person is never a good thing. Moral support for them? Yeah, sure. I can understand that. But a lot of the behavior up there seems to be a lot more than that, and even if you guys do know both Skullgrrl and Grygon in person, it's still a bit uncalled for.
From my point of view: instead of actually looking for any proof of what was happening, it seemed like everyone jumped on the bandwagon with "OH YEAH, SHE'S A DICK HAHA" and mindless asspatting. I'm not friends/familiar with anyone mentioned, so I really don't know how this all went down, but if you look at the screenshots: that's what it looks like. If you pull back for a second and try to think of it from a POV other than your own (person a made this comment, instead of my friend "x" made this comment), I think you could see where I'm coming from, maybe.
Agreeing with her and essentially egging her on and making her think this kind of verbal backlash is okay will only make her do it more, since she's getting positive responses for acting immaturely. There was a user on FA (that's been posted on here several times) that acted the same way and thought it was perfectly fine for a long time because all of her fans didn't bother to research what was going down, but thought she was ~*oh no the victim*~, and gave her nothing but asspats and "YEAH YOU TELL EM'".

I have nothing against you or your friends (I'm actually kind of glad you approached me the way that you did), or even Skullgrrl -- I just don't like the way that it was handled by any of the parties involved, and the response on that screenshot worried me.
I also made the mistake of writing up my original response/reading all of this at 6am on no sleep, so I probably mussed up on a few parts and should have come back to this and written up a response now instead of trying to make sense of things while on the verge of passing out. That's my bad, haha.

I hope you can understand where I'm coming from, because I can definitely see where you're coming from, even if I don't agree 100% with the way things went down.}

I do understand. :)

She was actually here this last weekend for five days and we all spent a lot of time with her. She disclosed some of what was going on then, so they aren't blindly agreeing. Most of those who replied are aware of most of the details. But from an outsider's point of view, I can see how it would be kind of damning.

There's no way I could fault you even if you didn't make sense, as I'm not really doing much better. lol

Alright! :3 No hard feelings.

I understand that you are skullgrrl's friend but seriously why would you let them act that way when you know too well that it's out there in the open? Everyone that has acted in such a way that has been my friend has had a good slap around the head and stern talking too.

The problem is now that skullgrrl has acted in such a way she's ruined her own business and chased away potential customers all on her own. Now if she was able to keep a cool head and come here and tell her side of the story and provide screencaps etc people WOULD listen.

At the end of the day she should have really kept her mouth shut and finished the transaction and be done with it.

Edited 2011-09-07 01:48 (UTC)

First of all, I am not her keeper and I don't really appreciate being labeled as such. Secondly, I HAVE spoken with her about it. I've told her that I'm unhappy with her behavior, etc and we've been conversing about it since last night. If I haven't posted how I spoke to her or what I said to her or how she's reacted, it's because this is between myself and Skullgrrl and once she decides to do so, she can speak for herself on the matter.

I am sorry if you are unhappy that I'm not flaming her in public. Be satisfied that I am not happy with her behavior and I have told her so. Her actions from here on in are not my responsibility or under my control. And if she does something like this again, you can be sure I'll rethink my friendship with her.

Not that you really labeled me her keeper, sorry. Knee-jerk reaction. ^^'

I didn't say anything about you being her keeper, you are the one labeling yourself in that way, no where have I seen anyone say that you are.

Er why would I be unhappy about you not doing that? By the sounds you are too gooder friend to her than she deserves by her actions and I would say she's lucky to have you.

Yeah, I added a post apologizing for that. Sorry again. ^^'

And thanks. I got a bit defensive. I definitely did not mean to come across sounding so pissy. And I don't actually think you'd be happy if I was flaming her. Most people wouldn't. lol

OMG! NICE ICON TO YOU TOOOOOO! :D (for once, ever, I do not feel ashamed for using all caps... your icon really brightened my day lmao!).

And now... yes, the entire thread, every comment there, just made my mind boggle. Though in all honesty, it didn't much surprise me. Just... you know how you always try and think good of people, no matter what, though you know it's not like that because your gut tells you things and you have suspicions based on little info... but still, you keep those good thoughts. Until *BRICK!* you have your eyes opened to the fact that you need to take a break from the rainbow and roses eye shades for a while. lol (in fact, I got another *BRICK!* that these people have "prior issues" with me... we don't even know each other, have never done business together, and have only met for BRIEF spells at cons so I was like "Uhm... prior issues okay wtf?")

If that makes sense. Work was exhausting today (but everyday whizzes by faster than a TARDIS, so can't complain too much can I? :) ). But as a Whovian, I think you'll get it. :3

And it wasn't just someone, it was two. One was even a mod. She does not think it applies to her. See Lilenth's reply about why some people refuse to own their words:
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/507048.html?thread=18356136#t18356136

Can I ask you to not use personalized font, please?

Small font? Sure thing. Sorry, it's a habit I have a hard time shaking.

No worries, was just making me squint a bit. :)

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