Update: skullgrrl

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I had hoped that this next weekend I would post a "resolved" post but when I got home from my aunt's funeral tonight I found this message in my inbox:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6110810725/sizes/o/in/photostream/

She refers to a bad-dealings thread on taxidermy.net where the only new message I had posted in reply since posting here and getting to see this dispute nearly resolved was a link to her artists-beware post, pointing out how she had reacted to it. That was going to be my last post concerning her, plus the resolution post when I did get my plush. It seems the post was removed, and I have a few PMs on those forums urging me to post my warning again as my own warning, and not Bob's (I had only been replying to his post about his bad dealings with her to share my own).

Then I found this beauty:
(eta: gender slurs and threats of physical violence in link)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6116827145/sizes/o/in/photostream/
the top thread is from her fanpage on facebook and the very bottom of that image is from taxidermy.net. At the top she mentions giving me a day or so, and in her facebook PM the only thing she asks for is me removing my posts.

The images explain themselves, I think, but as I suspect from my first post on her:
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/502139.html
her local fans are up in arms.

I am unsure what to do at this point. Thoughts?


ETA: Rereading that thread, I do want to clarify the "stay at home artist with no kids" comment that gets mentioned about the other forum as it seems to be lost on some critics: I meant that she was just a stay at home artist, and could not use kids as a valid reason for not working as that would be an understandable reason to me.

ETA2: Re: "wasn't allowed in skullgrrl's group" message below (frozen by mods, due to insults), I was a member and left of my own freewill for personal reasons and then got harassed for it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6118557424/sizes/o/in/photostream/

ETA3: so after being temp-banned here for her behavior, she posts this:
http://furhideandbone.livejournal.com/1270163.html
She makes some untrue statements in the comments as well as the main post, though that should be obvious to everyone by now. If there is a comment or statement she made that you want my side to just let me know. She does mention that I apologized to her here in the comments for some reason but I did not do that, at all, as can be seen.

ETA4: she deleted that post on furhideandbone. It got to around 40 comments (that I have saved via email if they're needed for whatever reason), mostly of people telling her to cool off. She deleted it and reposted this:
http://furhideandbone.livejournal.com/1270627.html
So here is a screen cap of the "witch hunt" she deleted from there:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29033586@N08/6119512262/sizes/o/in/photostream/

ETA5: I'm in the coffee shop now with nyaro and have picked up the plushie. Plushie-wise, this issue is resolved now. I'm in love all over again, it's like when I first got Babette who is my favorite ever.

Comments

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

Jesus christ.

Looking at the other posts too, she doesn't seem to be the most professional or nicest person either.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

Yes, I noticed that as well.

[amocin.livejournal.com]

I think this is very unprofessional, using the kind of language she did is just as bad for her business as any kind of post stating bad service.

[bridgeportcat.livejournal.com]

Well, holy cow, I am never doing business with her. She's absolutely frightening, in attitude and disposition.

[spiritlobo.livejournal.com]

agreed. She really needs to attitude adjustment and to grow up: FAST.

[meguroco.livejournal.com]

Ouch.

I hope she looks at this post, and realizes the mistakes that she's made.

Even if she did no wrong in your original trade, her response to her Artists Beware post is so vile, abhorrent and unprofessional, that I would never, ever want to do business with her, and I would let others know not to do business with her either.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I don't think she one to ever admit being wrong...
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/502139.html?thread=18318459#t18318459
(just now got that reply)

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

My 2 cents: I have had nothing but professional dealings with skullgrrl.

I have had extremely frustrating dealings with grygon, where long after she bought something from me she also falsely slandered me in public like she seems to be doing here. (http://breakspire.livejournal.com/125094.html) She has a special way of pushing people past their breaking point, so I sympathize completely with skullgrrl on this.

the main issue is whether or not the trade was completed or is being resolved. you didn't mention that

[grygon.livejournal.com]

And for that incident I did say I was wrong and made this public apology:
http://curio-collector.livejournal.com/92127.html

The only tipping point for skullgrrl, at all, was me posting the first warning. As I mention in that warning, I was at a loss of what else to do since she was not communicating to me at all.

Someone in town is babysitting the doll, she's the one in the thread who asks if she has to give it to me.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Could black out the names of the others in the second screenshot, as they are real names and might not want them public in such a way when they are otherwise uninvolved?

[grygon.livejournal.com]

Yes. My apologies. I will do that now, reupload, then edit the post then delete the old pic... give me about 10 minutes...

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Wow regardless of how pissed or upset you are at someone behaving like that does nothing to help your cause.

Damn. I'd mark the original issue as resolved as you got your stuff but the behavior is almost a whole new beware in itself. Very unprofessional.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I haven't got it yet, actually. Potentially this week I will get to pick it up.

But yes, I thought those threats and name calling over my participation in another bad-dealings post about her from another forum warranted an update.

[dodger-greywing.livejournal.com]

Name-calling and cursing all over the internet is one thing, but threatening physical violence is just Not Okay. It's not professional and it's not decent. I honestly would never want to work with someone who has threatened to hit another person other a trade gone bad. She's slandering herself there.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

Hey you long time no see!

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Wait, reading your post, are you claiming that you "didn't say anything new" except you kept talking about her after you two supposedly resolved the issue? Isn't this like what happened with that person over teenycom when you were talking about her after the fact?

If I am reading that correctly, and this is the case, then I can see why she is upset. Granted, I would have had a lot more respect for her had she not lost it, but I can understand where she is coming from.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

The issue discussed on the other forum was not this one about the plush. It was about her constantly flaking out on transactions (telling people to hold things for her, or that money was on-the-way and then never delivering). Since that was still an issue, yes I was still participating in the discussion.

So, it wasn't similar to the teenycom dispute IMO. I am still asking/searching for screen grabs of the thread (I put the dead-link in a comment, if you have ideas on how to get them).

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Holy overreaction Batman!

Now to be fair, based on reading past comments that Grygon made, he can come off as rather harsh, but skullgrrl swearing up and down was still waaaay out of line.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I've been working on that, and have even earned a few comments from folks who have noticed. :)

[spiritlobo.livejournal.com]

Wow, what a mess...well, I certainly will NEVER business for/with her, for anything EVER: not now, not in a million years.


I'm not positive about facebook, but I would seriously look into reporting that statement: that's a threat of bodily harm, and something that could get her in a whole hell of a lot of trouble, if not with facebook code or in public society, but with the authorities. And if she IS reading this post, I hope she realizes what a disservice she has done not only her business, but herself.

People read these posts. And people listen to them. I hope she learns this.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I did a quick search and found a lot of conflicting information... no info on facebook's stand on it. But a lot of stories of people who were not punished for facebook threats, and a lot of stories of people who were punished for facebook threats. Each story involves the law, not facebook admin.

I work with a cop, I will ask him his thoughts on this issue sometime this week and see if he thinks I should pursue anything. I didn't think of that, thank you for bringing it up. And would you let me know if you find any facebook info on it?

She is reading it all, and had this to say over at taxidermy.net:
You are INSANE. You've been disowned by your own sister, all her friends think you are creepy, and you have no real friends. Obviously no one is taking you seriously because I just made three deals with people who have read your posts. I don't even know why I bother... wait, I revise that. I DO know, because I make a living with my craft, traveling and producing, while you are 30 living at home with mom and dad. I hope your anger and ignorance really get you what you deserve one day, if living your life isn't punishment enough.
(I have a save screen grab, if anyone requires it)
She, nor my "sister" actually know me (it should go without saying).
and this to say on LJ:
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/502139.html?thread=18318459

(frozen)

[skullgrrl.livejournal.com]

Gee, I'm done with being pc with you. You are a waste of carbon. Anyone who wants the truth has got to stop listening to you, even in the other forum you started trashing me, people I didnt even know told me publicly that you are an idiot and unreliable.
As for the private forum you weren't even allowed to be in, I can say whatever I want. You just go after people who don't give you what you want. This is standard for you.
And your first warning. The second time I bring it up will be with a lawyer.
You people saying you wouldn't do business with me, your loss. I know my reputation and my supporters, and if it wasn't for this tattle tale freak, I am squeaky clean. I'm sorry all of you got caught in her poison.

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I have no idea why you thought spewing more insults would be a good idea after your first warning. I'm sure you have the vocabulary necessary to defend yourself in a much more mature, productive way. Please consider doing so.

[zydala.livejournal.com]

why won't people take responsibility for their own words?

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I wish I knew- luckily most of the lies she is spreading I have screen caps plus her replies in the last post to disprove. The only thing I don't have is screen caps from the other forum but I posted a link (dead link) to where it was if anyone knows how to get a cached page of that thread.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

Ok wow, still such a big mess. :( Never EVER should someone act as skullgrrl has I don't care how pissed off anyone is acting in such a manner is childish and unprofessional (especially if you are running a business. I would LOOSE my job if I did any of this stuff at work.)

As for other people with issues again the OP. That is a completely DIFFERENT issue to the one the OP is presenting here on A_B and has NOTHING to do with the transaction between them and skullgrrl.

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

yep, my mistake! I should have stayed far away from this.

[bridgeportcat.livejournal.com]

Ok, after seeing Skull's reaction here, in these comments, I just gotta say TRIPLE yikes :/ Unless you punched her, there's no reason for her to react the way she is.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I don't know how to throw a punch, so nope, no punching. ;)

[synatri.livejournal.com]

Off-topic but some tags would be nice...?

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I didn't notice they were missing... I think only mods are allowed to tag?

[bubonicapple.livejournal.com]

holy crap

what happened here

[grygon.livejournal.com]

?

That is a loaded question.

[icen-rose.livejournal.com]

I'll be avoiding this girl like the plague.

[bubonicapple.livejournal.com]

^

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

Wow. This girl has an absolutely horrific attitude and I will be staying faaaaaar away from ever doing business with her. And recommending others do the same. There's no excuse for these bizarre, crazy outbursts, threats, namecalling...any of it.

And all this because of a negative review and a little customer dissatisfaction? I see a lot of "GRYGON HAS MADE MY LIFE HELLLLL" but absolutely no explanation of how, what's been done, the injustice or anything. Just abuse and viciousness.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

Exactly. She has not once offered her own side (and I think that says something, imho). Only that she is mad about being reported.

[snowyedges.livejournal.com]

<sub>I'm finding a hard time taking anyone in that second link (with the gender slurs/threats of physical violence) seriously. I can't believe people can follow others so blindly. With EVERY comment I just ... agafgfghfgfff. I can't even properly express my rage and concern for their state of mental health.

I really hope you get you get your stuff and things get somewhat straightened out. Nobody deserves to get caught up in a shitstorm this bad.
And even if this entire beware was ~invalid~, her reaction is enough to make me steer way, wayyyyyyyyy clear of her. Someone linked her to the "WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU'RE POSTED ON A_B" thread but it's very obvious she didn't read it thoroughly or ... didn't think it applied to her.
It sucks to think that all of this, if handled with a bit of maturity and a straight head (not jumping the gun and throwing slurs and insults around) probably would have ended nicely. :/ Because, honestly, you were /one/ customer that was dissatisfied -- that happens to just about everyone, and it doesn't "ruin businesses" like she's making this out to be. However, her terrible attitude and tantrum is what caused a LOT more people to back up and not want to do business with her, from what I can see. I don't understand how people think reacting that was is in any way okay. ERK.

(Also: nice icon. :3)</sub>

[frequentlynyaro.livejournal.com]

No one except Darien posted anything like what you have mentioned and I think we have a right to sympathize with someone we're friends with without people automatically assuming we're idiots. Also, how are we following her blindly? Are you telling me that if your friend had a temper tantrum you'd just decide you didn't like them anymore, even if you thought they had a somewhat valid reason for it? Heck, even if you didn't think they had a valid reason for it? My friends have been really stupid sometimes, but when it comes right down to it, they're good people who made mistakes. Do you not make mistakes?

I'm not saying I agree with how she handled the issue. But I do think she has a good reason for being upset, and honestly I'm upset about it too for her sake and for the group's sake.

And on top of that, I have met both Grygon and Skullgrrl in real life. Grygon lives in my city and I've interacted with her several times. If I choose to believe Darien, it's because I have reasons to do so, not because I'm following her blindly in my adoration of her work. This would apply to many of the others in the group too, as several of them have had the opportunity to meet Grygon or know her.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Concerning the ETA4 screenshot, holy crap that's a lot of anger. I think she needs to talk to someone about that, or at the very least step away from the computer for a while.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

Yeah. :( There are more like it, I think, that I have saved but it seemed overkill to upload EVERYTHING. (but it's there, just in case I need to!)

[taasla.livejournal.com]

This goes to show one thing: Fans of an artist or anyone? Don't stick your nose into arguments between an artist and someone else. Don't white-knight. I can guarantee you it will not work out and you make the artist look worse.

Now, if you have proof that the person they are arguing with is lying (just an example, not saying you are, Grygon. :) ), then by all means POST IT POLITELY.

If anything, I have no desire to deal with Skullgrrl if her fans are going to dog pile me if something goes awry. No thanks.

[frequentlynyaro.livejournal.com]

I...really don't know what you're talking about. o.O I posted a message on taxidermy.net to simply state the experiences I've had with Skullgrrl (that I have never had any problems with her as a buyer) without talking about anyone else except Grygon and how I was still going to get her stuff to her. I know one of our group messaged at least one person in regard to something they posted, but I've been told by that person that they weren't actually rude...just misinformed.

The rest are, as far as I'm aware, completely uninterested in flaming anyone, even Grygon (I'd be really surprised if they were. They're not that kind of people). Any messages we actually posted were in our fan group to express sympathy for her issues with Grygon, who many of us have met or know in real life and have had issues with ourselves.

I myself am trying to connect with her so she can get her side of the trade, which both she and Darien agreed on as the way they wished the transaction to be finished. And though I'm regretting agreeing to it now due to Grygon's constant dragging of my friends (via the group) into this issue, I will still make sure it goes through.

Ans...I'd really appreciate it if people would stop judging us based on so little evidence. And don't tell me "then you shouldn't be friends with such a bitch" because honestly...that's just sad. That's the best you can come up with? She's a good person who snapped. Whoop dee doo. If I actually thought she meant to dole out bodily harm to Grygon, I'd be out of there, but she's just mad. People get mad. It happens. It's not necessarily okay for it to happen, but if we really care about a person, we tend to smack them upside the head, forgive, and move on instead of abandoning them at the first sign of trouble.

I think she's got enough in the way of punishment for this anyways, considering how many negative opinions she's garnered.

[ormspryde.livejournal.com]

Hmm, wow. I always like Skullgrrl's stuff, but the barrage of insults and namecalling make me have no desire to actually buy any.

[ormspryde.livejournal.com]

*liked

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Mirroring what everyone else said, not commissioning her, and showing other people this very entry.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

off topic but... I keep seeing these new-age MLP icons (like yours)... I have to admit, I think they're starting to grow on me and I may need that show in my life soon.

[bubonicapple.livejournal.com]

the second fhb post has been deleted; i think that's the end of that caper.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

I got the entire thing saved via email... I noticed a curious thing- in one reply to l0ba she said she could not delete her post via her cell phone. And then a bunch of replies kept being deleted. Then she admitted it was her who deleted them. Long time later the entire thing is finally deleted.

(I got that all saved, if someone wants to torture me by making me screen-cap the entire thing lol)