Advice for an ALMOST problem customer? - RESOLVED

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

So I have a semi-repeat customer that I've never had a GIANT problem with, but always a small one. It's never about payment or promptness of service/payment, but it's just attitude.

Whenever I finish something for this person, they give me a sort of disappointed response. But, since I don't allow changes of previous steps once they've been approved on my work and they hardly give me anything CONCRETE (It's just always a "Oh, that looks good I suppose"), I can't work on it any more than I do. They also had the same issue with a FREE GIFT picture I did when they won a raffle, and even put something passive aggressive in their upload submission on FA.

I've started asking my other artist pals about this person, and many of them have similar stories, and some of them include said customer bitching to friends about their art, their prices and whatnot, so I can assume they've done the same about me.

Since there's never been a real altercation, I don't know what to do about the person. I would like to keep working with them, but at the same time, it's really bothering me that they aren't satisfied with my work, but still purchase it.

Does anyone have any advice? :/

EDIT: We exchanged a few more emails after this and I'm unsure if the person will be coming back for my services, but I've decided if they do, I will talk to them beforehand about their attitude. If they get defensive, I'll let them know I'm not up for taking their business. If they seem apologetic, they can have another shot.

I do my best to be a clear, friendly and easy to work with artist, and I hate the idea of having to say no to someone, but I've stressed so much with their work in the past I really don't think it's worth the 10-30$ they throw me occasionally.

EDIT 2: The customer (Xaxoqual) has come here and outed themselves along with an apology. They also sent me a long email with a thoughtful second apology and we'll be working together to make them a character sheet so they can avoid this in the future.

This situation has also inspired me to make a few tutorials including "Character Creation: How to be unique without being obnoxious" (Which Xaxoqual is not, but it ended up coming up XD) and "How to Commission an Artist: Getting what you want without the headache"

I know these have been done by people before, but the more info out there the better! c:

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Personally, I would just tell them outright, "Hello, your responses give me the impression there is something you are not satisfied with. If that is the case, I would like it if you were upfront with me. If not, I hope you can find an artist whose work is more to your liking."

If you really want to keep them as a customer and not risk driving them off, I would just ignore it. As long as they pay, and are otherwise easy to handle. I think sometimes people say that in hopes of getting something extra, and I'm not interested in humoring that kind of behaviour, so I simply don't.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I've decided they do just try and get extra work out of people after talking to a few other friends. I've tried ignoring it, but man, it does get to me eventually @__@

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

Is their money worth it? Will they give you a more concrete answer if you press them for complaints at each step? If not, I say just deny this guy any further business.

[yoka-neko.livejournal.com]

^ excellent avatar :D (sorry, needed to say it)

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with others. If you don't need the money from this one person, decline. While you should be trying to put feelings aside, sometimes it can really bother you and make you have a hard time working fully on it.

I've had someone do it before as well. I was so discouraged, I didn't want to continue, but of course forced myself and made sure it still looked right.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I know my art is imperfect and I know it's not everyone's favorite style, so I'm used to hearing that stuff from people who DONT SPEND THEIR OWN MONEY XD

I'm thinking it might just be because I have such low base pricing vs. my apparent popularity? Pricing is hard :C

[vtforpedro.livejournal.com]

I'm sort of having this same problem. They keep commissioning me, but they never seem satisfied with what I give them. It's very confusing! I consider them a friend, so I always ask if it's okay and they say yes... but only after telling me what's wrong with it. "This this and this aren't right, but yeah... I like it otherwise."

They have no reference sheet and expect me to pick and choose from the varying images of their character to reference off of - how am I supposed to know which one has all the correct details? D:

I'd very much like to see any advice posted here, as well!

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

That's a pet peeve of mine. I really don't mind fixing things that I made a mistake of but just tell me! Saying "His hair is more like this but it looks good as is anyways!" is very passive aggressive to me. I've ended up only changing things only if someone asks me.

If I were you, I'd either tell them to pick what they like or just too bad for them. A commissioner once told me to check her FA page for refs, so I picked one and apparently got things wrong since another picture was different.

[flyingfluff.livejournal.com]

If they keep coming back for more, they must be satisfied with your art on at least some level.

Sounds to me they just don't know how to leave out negative side comments or how to be direct in what they say.

[shiftergoddess.livejournal.com]

I always wonder about these types. If they don't fully like the end result, why keep coming back? Or do they like it in concept but less as it progresses?

Honestly, if you ask them to approve a stage and they do there's nothing you can really do to get more out of them unless you want to run the risk of prodding them for more complaints and getting a landslide.

But i agree with what others have said here. If you need the money and you can set aside the passive aggressive remarks, keep him as a customer. But if his remarks bother you to the point where continuing on his pieces is harder, i would cut ties.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking it's a pricing issue, and I'm relatively cheap.

Something else I learned today: This person was looking into getting some art from a friend of mine, and when she quoted him her prices, he then went to her S.O. and began to whine about how much she charged. S.O. explained how many hours she spends on each piece and her pricing fits that accordingly and he responded "Well if you shovel dirt for 8 hours, that doesn't mean it's worth anything"

..... >:|

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Those types baffle me. It makes me wonder if they are just unhappy that artists aren't magically psychic and can see the image directly in their head.

Either way, if you want to keep him, I'd just ignore it. He's approving the stages, so if there was really a problem it's on him to let you know instead of being passive aggressive about it.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

It seems like this is just their general attitude, if it's how they're acting with everyone. There are certain types of people who act like this if you cant replicate exactly what they see in their head and this guy could just be a dreamer like that. Or maybe it's just an attitude problem.

If you can handle working with someone passive-aggressive like this then by all means continue. Raising the issue with him could get sticky though. Have you tried asking him why his responses are always so underwhelmed?

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I don't think I have the self confidence to work with someone who undermines me, and I suppose it's good I'm learning this still fairly early on in my art career XD

also can be read as: I DONT GET PAID ENOUGH FOR THIS SHIT.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

If you can overlook it, do so. There's a few customers I've had that are like this, and yet they kept coming back over and over again so there must have liked the work to some degree. However if they get worse? Tell them how you feel when they make comments like that.

I once had a customer for several years who was never satisfied with what I did. He'd throw money at me, expecting one thing but got something else and then would complain and complain. Then immediately after? Commission me again. Needless to say, eventually I just couldn't stand talking to him anymore and told him we were done. Honestly, over time I'd deny a clients proposals if they continued to be passive-aggressive and not upfront.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

What I'm learning from all these comments is that I don't have to put up with it XD

I think I still have the attitude of OH GOD PLEASE COMMISSION ME FUCK ILL DO ANYTHING when I really don't have the time/energy to do everything people ask. I can "afford" to be picky now with going to school full time D:

[saitenyo.livejournal.com]

You just have to decide what you're comfortable with and whether or not you need the money.

Personally, unless I needed the money, I wouldn't want to deal with consistently ungracious commissioners. There's nothing wrong with turning down a commission if you have issues with a commissioner's attitude.

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

I had someone like this once a while back. They gave me their ref and I'd give them the WIP images and they'd just be like "oh well, I like it. But you got this and this wrong" when it was clearly not that way on the reference.
Worse still they'd mention only one thing, then wait until the next wip or two down the line to mention they didn't like something else ("this is wrong, but I like it") asfdsdfasdsdfsada
Then when I FINISHED they still complained stuff wasn't quite right and I was like. 8|

It really irked me to no end, and I'm generally an easy-going person, but I guess I found a pet-peeve.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly nice and easygoing too, so I'm always surprised when something actually Pisses Me Off like this did. I'm glad to know I'm not alone in this being a problem XD

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

I just got finished dealing with someone who was passive-aggressive like this as well. I was up front that I didn't appreciate the attitude, and gave them another chance, but it just continued. In the end, I finished their commissions, then black listed them as a client for me. As much as I need the money, the stress wasn't worth it for me.

So I guess it's up to you what you decide you wanna do. If you can overlook the attitude and need the money, then go ahead and do it. Otherwise, I'd finish up any business with them and then not take any more orders from them.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

I could just be suspicious, but it sounds like this person is a bit of a tire-kicker. Probably trying to mooch extra work by complaining and tire-kicking.

[bailzzararco.livejournal.com]

I'd personally just stop accepting work from them. I mean, if they're going to be whiney about everything.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Tell them the truth, that their less than enthusiastic replies regarding your work towards them are leaving you in an uncomfortable position that makes you not want to work with them anymore.

You can also pair this with the fact that you actually do like to work on their projects, but they need to be more honest in their lines of communication with you. You want to work with them not against, so being ho-hum is counterproductive in getting awesome art.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

i would like to know who this is

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I can contact you about that. I don't want to sound like I'm smearing them, as I don't have a ton of proof in regards to screenies and such, but if anyone would like to know so they can be cautious/prepared, let me know c:

[badkittyamy.livejournal.com]

They can have another shit =B

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

im gonna give you another shit >:|

i just spotted it and fixed it

[mwalimu.livejournal.com]

This post has got me thinking... Not about any of the individuals involved (since I don't know any of them), but about how I might be perceived by artists whom I commission. I haven't commissioned that much art - so far just a dozen or so conbadges and one picture commission, but I'd like to do more in the future, especially since I anticipate being able to afford more in the foreseeable future.

Part of it is that I'm an Aspie. I'm not as good as most people at picking up on social conventions and nonverbal cues. My responses to things such as "how does this sketch look" tends to be more low-key than most people, and even though I may be pleased with the results overall, sometimes I can't help noticing things that I might have liked to be a little different, and sometimes my nonverbal reaction is tempered accordingly even if I don't actually mention whatever it is I noticed. (And it's not always like this - some of the time my reaction has been a sincere and unbridled, "Wow, that's awesome!").

Nevertheless, I'd like to develop a reputation as a good commissioner, someone that is easy and a pleasure for artists to work with, so I'm trying to be self-aware about how I come across and what I should work on improving in my interactions with artists. So when I read a post like this one I can't help wondering and worrying if I'm perceived anything like that problem customer.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

One of the biggest things that will help you is to not go into a commission with a specific idea in your head that HAS to be done or you'll be disappointed. Because it's just not really possible. Artists can't jack into your brain and download what you're imagining, so you're going to get what THEY interpret based on the information you give them, and that's really the best they can do. Let small mistakes slide, and bring up bigger ones during the sketch things when things are easily changed. Don't be nitpicky.

As long as you are polite, honest, and considerate of the artist, you'll be fine. If you're unsure, grab a friend (preferably an artist friend)and have them look over what you would like to say, they might catch things you wouldn't notice.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

well, the incident i spoke to you about was a second chance incident. so i doubt they will get much better. but i'm not entirely sure they knew that they were doing any wrong either, which makes it tricky... good luck!

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

and just to add to the post here (sorry for all of the comments) i am aware of who this individual is and have had frustrating dealings with them as well. eerily similar.

sorry for the edits :/

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Wondering who this is. It reminds me of a situation I had with someone once.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Just put the real beware in the moderation queue. Will edit this entry if/when it is approved c:

[furryecho.livejournal.com]

i would personally just tell them to look elswhere for something that would be more to there licking, becuase you dont have to service this person..the negative vibe is not wanted.

[crssafox.livejournal.com]

I have had incidents with customers behaving the same way. One person i deal with will leave public comments that, because I am familiar with him and the way he communicates, I know are not actually passive aggressive or meant to be damaging, but to others that don't know him at all won't recognize that and it would, in turn, be poor reflection on me and my business. It's frustrating, because what do you do? Tell him "Don't say stuff like that, it's not nice?" I end up hiding comments from him on occasion just because it seems passive aggressive even when I know it is not, it is just his way of communicating.

In a specific example, I posted on Facebook a month ago saying I was recovered from being sick and catching up on e-mails; a week ago, he left a comment saying something like "yeah a response would be nice" even though we had actually been in communication back and forth via e-mails and he did get responses, I guess when he left that might have been overnight waiting for me to write back? I dunno. Regardless, even though I know it was just his way of checking in, it looked publicly like I don't answer my e-mails, and that's not the case.

I've had others that just don't speak up while work is being done, and after it's completed (and no changes to be made without requiring further payment) they finally decide to say they didn't care for something that could have been fixed ages ago. In the end I generally will not do business with them again, if it is a communication error on their end. I've had loads of people able to communicate changes they want to see made and they turn out to be fine to work with (even if you sometimes want to tear your hair out from impatience) and those I will accept repeat business from, but people that don't speak up and then make negative comments are not tolerated. I don't need their money, I'll save the commission slots for someone that actually wants one.

Here we go...

[xaxoqual.livejournal.com]

Well, up front I'm going to admit it, I'm the problem customer.

This post set has been a real eye opener to me. I'm not going to deny anything at all - its true, I've been passive agressive.

To be honest, I don't like it either and I'm frustrated with myself that I could cause this sort of problem and distress - I really do like all the pics that Sigil/you has/have done for me (especially the mamaxax one). The problem is that I cant shut up when even I think i'm a little right or if I feel like something doesnt match.

I won't try that here. I've been dumb and offensive and I wish I knew earlier, to be honest. I'm frustrated with myself really. But now that I know, I can try to improve. If you tell me I'm being a butt in future, I will take it.

I can be really dense and callous at times and I'm really sorry, Sigil. And I apologize to any other artist (Likeshine, Ipsumlorum, etc) that I did the same thing to...I just hope I can continue to improve and cut this dumb shit out...

Re: Here we go...

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

That's very big of you. Just try your hardest and people will be understanding and patient in turn, usually. If something bothers you enough to complain about it, mention it in the sketch stage, if not, don't mention it at all. It'll become easier the longer you do it.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

Wow, I can't believe the guy actually came here, fessed up, and apologized. It's nice to see there are still people that can swallow their pride and let it all out.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

He also sent me a long apology email. I'll edit this post to reflect everything