List of Shady Artists and Commisioners

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

The last entry got me thinking and I think it would be a good idea to make a list of shady artists and commissioners who have been posted on this community. I think links to the various issues in which they are mentioned would be a good idea too. This could be quite a time consuming undertaking, so I am by no means volenteering for the project (I go back to University and start my 2 part time jobs tomorrow) but it is something I think would be useful to the community. If the list was displayed on the community info, I think it would help save a lot of folks from getting robbed from shady artists or commisioners.

Comments

[filthy-animal.livejournal.com]

I agree.

And along with their names, a link to every post they're mentioned in.

[wereguitar.livejournal.com]

You kind of get the idea with this community's 'memories' LJ feature. Maybe revamp that?

[grygon.livejournal.com]

that's what i was gonna suggest. there's a filter thing in memories and a folder/filter for "Bad Commissioners/Artists" could be made. then a list of name folders for all mentioned. then inside those, every post ever made about them.

[emlan.livejournal.com]

It would be kinda unfair to commisioners who's done 1 bad job becsouse of various reasons or misunderstandings, some might also have shapen up since they got reported.

[ultraviolet.livejournal.com]

I dunno , maybe a whole '3 strikes' sort of idea could be done? That they only get put on the list if they are in these situations X amount of times.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Who decides what's a strike and what isn't though.

This is an interesting community to read, but I still take all stories with a grain of salt. Two people may just not get a commission to work and things can get heated.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

i say making a list of someone whos been mentioned more than onse. A repeat offender per say.

Though... someone would actually have to make and maintain it.

Ok someone with no life volunteer
(sadly i noticed the majority of members of this community are bust little bees)

[mazz.livejournal.com]

*busy

[ilea.livejournal.com]

can we make of list of irresponsible art traders too?

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I think that would be a little beyond the scope of what I'd want to accomplish. I want to really just list the cases where the loss of funds were involved.

[thylahound.livejournal.com]

First post here, but I read everything.

I read where someone made this suggestion before and it was agreed upon that we don't want to have a blacklist because people change, as does their behavior.

[sushidragon.livejournal.com]

Agreed.. speaking from my own experience ^_^;

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

Yes, I remember the old lj entry for this idea. The general verdict seemed to be a 'no.' Though there's some strong good and bad points for both sides of the argument.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/artists_beware/39704.html

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

People do change, true, but when you rob someone for like over a 100 dollars, I do think it needs to follow you around, cause that is alot of money to take from someone.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I don't think that'll work.

Who are we to say "This is a bad artist you should never commission" or "This is a bad customer"? That's not something you can objectively determine, some customers are pickier than others and artists have more or less patience. Sometimes there are genuine problems with payment or shipping and the other party doesn't give it enough time.

Plus I doubt you'll reach a bigger crowd than the current one, and in such (nut)cases in which it's overwhelmingly obvious someone is a bad customer (Canis Claxis) or artist (Brian O' Connell) the story will get around.

So, I think it's a bad idea.
Lots of drama over something that doesn't add anything.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

what about modifying it to include artists or commisioners who have cheated people out of <100 dollars. I think it is pertient to inform people about the risks involved with doing business with suh a person when more than 100 dollars is at stake.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I still don't think it's going to work.

Plus if you're going to post information on-line which hurts an artists' business, highly subjective information which may not be real in the first place but just someone toying with an artist or trying to take revenge when you might get into legal trouble as well.

Plus the drama. I've been in the fandom and on LJ for years and I can smell it a mile away, this reeks of drama.

[fierycatthing.livejournal.com]

I think that's pretty much what the memories are used for. And while the memories are small right now, they are growing.

In any case, making a list would be both rude and unfair to the commissioners and the buyers. It's kind of like to art-theft blacklists that were a fad a few years ago for everyone to have. It ruins a person's reputation, and it catches up with them even after they've tried so hard to change it. I rather like that the few most recent pagest of this community is the most informative on who currently does bad commissions. But I know for a fact that some of the folks on later entries have changed their ways.

~RedFeather

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I like the idea about repeat offenders going on it, but I know that you can't be fully objective. However I do think special attention needs to be brought to the cases where more than 100 dollars in involved, such as the case as that poor furson who got robbed for 400 for a plushie.

[banrai.livejournal.com]

ALl I can think to say is that, if someone was going to blow $400 on a plushie, maybe they were asking for it. That's a rediculously large ammount to pay.

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

I agree that this isn't as good an idea as it sounds. Who will decide who is and who isn't worthy of being on this black-list? What are the criteria? If an artist says they couldn't finish your commission becaue their house burned down, who determines what is the truth and how will you really know? It's a but unfair, use this lj community's memories feature if you want something close to what you are thinking.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

What about the amount of money which was lost be critria for the list, namely people who have lost < 100 dollars in a business deal?
I would want people to know the name of someone who robbed me for that much money no matter what their excuses might be.

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

Like I said, that's what the memories feature is for on this community.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Prehaps we could modify the memories feature to include the dollar amount which was at stake during the transaction to draw speicial attention to the cases where more than <100 was at stake.

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

That may be a good idea I think, that way people can figure out what is a real priority warning. =3

[auradeva.livejournal.com]

Money isn't always the most important issue. If a commissioner is willing to lay down more than 100 up front then that's their business. Don't forget about the real psychos and scammers out there like Canix Claxis. People like that tend to make a name for themselves without needing a list.

This community is called aritsts_beware even though a lot of commissioners have been posting here, too. If an artist or commissioner sees the name of the person they're planning on working with in the list of memories then it's enough.

[caishide.livejournal.com]

eh, i tried to get ahold of a simillar list in july before i headed off to anthro con, but no one seemed too enthusiastic about helping

my question is; why is it okay to post about bad business experiences with people, but it ISN'T okay to then list them? the logic seems nonexistant there

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Well I can see some of thier points on the matter. I mean people do change. I was thinking about modifying the idea to include a list of folks who have robbed people for over 100 dollars.

[the-snappy-wolf.livejournal.com]

That doesn't seem very fair.. =/ What makes person A's $100 lost more worthy than perons B's $50? They both lost hard earned money and they both got the shit end of a deal right? I think people should just read through the community or ask about certain artists/costomers before starting a transaction with them.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

50 dollars is more than 100 dollars, and while it is still someone's hard earned money, 100 is still alot more than 50, and I would be a lot more pissed off if I lost over a 100 in a deal than I would with 50. i am just trying to make some sort of criteria here for folks to warn them about pervious people's experienes with a certain artist and commisioner, and I think this would be a really good thing to base making a list of this sort on.

[the-snappy-wolf.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but I'd be equally pissed off if people made off with any amount of money that I worked for. I work 8 hours at a fast food joint 6 days a week standing on my feet with a 30 minute break IF I'm lucky... So I don't care if I spent $10 or $1000 I'd be pissed if someone took my money, regardless. =/

I just think people should research before they take/make a commission.. because it's stupid not to... ^.o_O.^ I say make the list if you want to, that's your perogative, but I don't support it really, I mean just putting names on a list isn't very effective, as it doesn't give people the chance to see all the details... As someone said, how do you know the person making the report just doesn't like the person they are reporting? They couldn't see eye to eye and that's why the transaction went bad?
Or the commissioner or commissionee had some sort of accident that caused them not to be able to pay or produce the product? You can't prove it did or didn't happen, it's benifit of the doubt and all that.

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

I think the reasoning behind making a livejournal community as opposed to a straight up list is that instead of just naming names, we are all able to discuss whatever the incident was and judge for ourselves whether or not we still want to commission that person or not. The community memories serve as best as list as anyone can ask for, linking directly to the original complaint (within which is all the info needed including names, alias', links [hopefully], and what the offense is). So while making a list seems like a good idea, there really is already one in place which serves it's purpose the best any art blacklist can.