Warning: Luvythicus

[thaily.livejournal.com]

WHO: Luvythicus
WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/luvythicus/ or http://luvythicus.deviantart.com/
WHAT: Art trade, 3 bags of plushies and fur fabric for 1 drawing.
WHEN: May 29 2010

Summary:
- I offer free stuff, but first come first serve, in order to prevent other people from snatching up 3 trash bags worth of plushies and fur fabric, he offers to trade me art to hold on to them until he can get someone to pick the items up. I agree.
- He receives the items and expresses his happiness with them.
- He acknowledges multiple times that he owes me work.
- Of a certain quality.
- Yet he forgets about me 3 times.
- Inundates me with angst and lies, such as not having a working computer when uploading digital work or saying he's too busy when uploading gift art.
- Lies, i.e. about being threatened to swindle money out of his viewers.
- Currently claims he no longer has the items and says I will never get the art he owes me.


Once upon a time, I was cleaning up and decided to give away of a pile of plushies and a few meters of fur fabric.
The plushies and fur were really nice so I thought some local furries might enjoy them, so rather than give them to a local thrift store like I usually do, I put up a "free to a good home, first come first serve" post here.

Enter Luvythicus.
He said he knew someone locally who could pick up a large portion of the fur and the plushies the next day, but that didn't work out. Afraid someone else might come for the items before he/his friends could he said "I know you said no reserving, but..." and offered to trade artwork in exchange for me holding on to 13 plushies and several meters of fur fabric. He used this and this image as a sample to show the quality of work he would give me.
I agreed and at this point it became a trade; the items for art.

June 5 2010 he received the items and let me know how happy he was with them.
June 7 2010 I give him the information he needs to draw his half of the trade. The link I sent him was this one, which is fairly clear reference I think. He complains about the complexity, but if you give her clothes you only have to do the stripes on her face, so. *shrug*
September 7 2010 I remind him of our agreement.
September 22 2010 he forgot who I am. After clarification I send him the reference link again and he says "Imma doodle her today fer sure x3"
November 2010 I leave a shout on his FA page (no screenshot as it had since scrolled off) and again, he forgot who I am. November 26 2010 I remind him again, send reference link for third time.

Eventually, on November 28 2010, I get a sketch.
You might notice a discrepancy between the quality of that and the quality he promised. I hemmed and hawed, already pretty fed up with having to wait half a year for even a preliminary and being inundated with false promises and angst whenever I ask him about it. But I confront him and tell him this is not the quality of work we agreed on. Same day, he agrees and says he'll draw more. which is followed by another note in which he explains, apologizes and promise to "draw something proper".

That's the last I heard from him for months.
In the meantime he has and continues to take commissions, ask people for ideas to draw, does a lottery, draws gifts, does trades and offers free art and draws numerous pictures of his character doing the horizontal mambo with other people's characters.
I understand people having a hard time, and I understand that paying customers come first. But in this case, I have no clue as to what the hold up is supposed to be. If anything I thought the fact he was uploading work would mean he'd definitely get around to mine, but either he has a 1.5 year backlog or he's taken commissions AND trades after mine and just skipped over the work he owes me.

March 5 2011, I send him a link to the original LJ post as a reminder, he says I am not a priority and can't even draw for himself. But uploads gift art 10 days later.

April 19 2011 rolls around and I'm fed up.
I send him a a deadline, provide me with a preliminary within a month or return the items because I don't think he should get something for breaking his promise.
Because he lives on the other side of the country and both he and I have spotty transport at best (depending mostly on public, which costs an arm and a leg), I asked (mutual!) friends more local to him and with transport, if they'd be willing to drop by and pick up the items, so it'd be easy for Luvy to bow out of the trade.

He responds by saying he feels threatened and anyway his computer is broken so unless I can teach him to draw out of thin air..
He then makes an FA journal about the fact he's being threatened.
Notice how, after a year of admitting he promised to make me art of a certain quality and that he was definitely going to get 'round to it, he goes to saying how he just offered a sketch out of the kindness of his heart. At least he's being honest when he says "I don't care if you feel cheated or anything".

My response, also explaining that it wasn't a threat because well, it wasn't. I figured that if it was a misunderstanding, he'd delete or at least amend the post. However, in response to my statement that I was not threatening him, he says that the post is just a warning for anyone else who might suddenly demand art from him. So he knew he was not being threatened, but the post is still there, without even amending the information he knew to be false and he got at least 50 dollars out of lying to his viewers!

The obvious falsehood of his post also casts a new light on this one: Silly customers.
And makes me wonder how many more people he might owe work to. :/

I tell him that, while he claims to only be able to use the internet via his phone and not draw digitally, he had uploaded digital work. I'm not angry, I just want what he promised me.
May 8 2011 he's suddenly all cutesy and pleasant again, and asks for my real life address for a "surprise". I am suspicious, and ask him for a phone pic of the traditional media doodles. I remember seeing it, but didn't save it, it was the corner of a piece of paper with some doodles. He said there was a second sheet but the cat puked on it or something. By this time I was getting pretty exasperated with and tired of this person. Can you tell? ;P

Notice how he asks for the character's personal info AFTER I send him the link for the fourth time.
Said link has a full bio, which is part of the reason I didn't respond. The other being that unlike him, I was busy-busy (end of the semester, commissions etc.) and didn't feel like telling him about my hobbies. The link I gave him 4 times had plenty of information he needed for some doodles.
Needless to say I didn't hear from him after.

Sent a note today, asking for an update, he complains he had to wait 5 months for information he already had and apparently couldn't do a single headshot since and he lost the sketches he already had.
Despite the fact that I carefully stored my items and they were fine when I gave them to him, the fur was suddenly "riddled with bugs" and he threw it away; good time to mention he claimed the fur was for his then-girlfriend and he just never gave it to her, even though they were still together for at least a month after receiving the fur.
He claims to have given the plushies to charity which I sincerely doubt. Considering his track record of lying to me, I heavily suspect he's just trying to brush me off and get me to leave him alone because he supposedly doesn't have the items anymore.

And I'm confident that he will never, ever live up to his promise, leaving his post to be forever unresolved.
I would definitely recommend people never give him anything again, money or otherwise.
Sure he seems to do some commissions and trades, but why chance it?

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

That's a shame, that giraffe plushie is ADORABLE, I'd have totally traded art for it myself (and actually done it..).

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

My brother has [well.. had.. he ripped the head off of it for some reason] that giraffe plushie. It's pretty nice, it's got a plastic head under the fur and is like 3 feet tall or somethin.

I'm assuming this is the same giraffe one he has.. it sure looks the same.

I believe he got it in Wal Mart or Zellers.

[kawaiipiepie.livejournal.com]

Omg I agree, they're gorgeous! I actually recognize one of the foxes as one I already own, they're great quality plushies.

[farewellojoys.livejournal.com]

If you or anyone else is looking for one of your own, they (at least, the cheetah and giraffe) are Hansa (http://www.hansatoy.com/) animals. Fabulous quality.

[xianjaguar.livejournal.com]

I opened up both: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/4863411/
and: http://www.furaffinity.net/full/3881207/
and stared at them, trying to see the differences. Honestly? They're almost identical in quality.
Linework: Scratchy and sketchy. Bold in both cases, as if the artist drew over the same areas several times.
Anatomy: Decent, but not the greatest. The artist has a problem with hands. Heads are at the same general angle, with the same expressions.
Pose: Somewhat stiff in both cases.
Coloring: In both cases, the coloring is fast & sloppy. In the example, the shading has more of an airbrushed look, and in your commission, it's shaded without the airbrush tool. The bat happens to have more detail, because it's connected with the character. He drew all the stuff that your character had in your reference.

Really, the quality of both pictures is very comparable.

This leads me to believe that it's more of a communication problem with both of you. Judging from the notes back and forth in the beginning, he seemed under the impression that he was just going to give you a drawing with the minimum effort of that bat he linked to, and perhaps the maximum effort of the other pics he linked to, depending on his mood. He seemed to think that any drawing would have fulfilled his end of the deal, since you were already giving the plushies away for free.

Meanwhile, the minute you agreed to hold the plushies for him, you felt that the transaction turned into a trade for the exact dollar amount of the plushies and that you expected his work to be on the higher quality end of the examples given. Yet, you did not make that very clear to him, so he was still under the impression that ANY drawing would do.

Hence, when he gave you his sketch, you felt it wasn't good enough, and everything went way downhill from there.
Personally, while it sucks that it took so long for him to deliver the sketch, he finally did, and it did match the quality of one of the examples given.

However, he *did* dig himself in deeper by getting nervous at your anger and promising a better picture. It seems he did feel bad that you didn't like the pic, and wanted to make you happy, but then he just started getting frustrated and mad.

I dunno, if I was in your shoes, I would have just laid off him once I got the sketch. I think it was decent enough for free plushies in the light that no hard concrete rules were laid down for the exact quality of the sketch.

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

This.
Though with the sketch you got, the main difference is that there's less clean-up and they didn't use a soft-shaded style for your piece. So the only quality difference I'd say is the underlying sketch they didn't erase properly.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

That said, he agreed that it was not the quality we had agreed upon.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I didn't think the drawing for the trade was what I would call "a sketch" nor was it of obviously lower quality...
that said Luvythicus did agreed to try again
that said Thaily did receive something and I'm not sure it was right to demand all the items back?
also, the "new pieces" Thaily links as examples that Luvythicus is continuing to do art look to be of even lower quality than the one she did get so... if Luvythicus says the problem is he has art block, that could still be the case?

All that said, Luvythicus's journals alone make me think everyone should avoid them D:

[thaily.livejournal.com]

He's said a lot of things over the past year and a half, but this "art block" doesn't stop him from drawing highly detailed images for himself. So I'm gonna file that under all the other excuses he gave me.

"also, the "new pieces" Thaily links as examples that Luvythicus is continuing to do art look to be of even lower quality than the one she did get so..."
It could have been worse so I should be happy he gave me a 30 minute doodle after 6 months of waiting for 3 bags of stuff he explicitly wanted? :P

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I disagree.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

It could have been worse so I should be happy he gave me a 30 minute doodle after 6 months of waiting

What I said/implied/meant was the piece you got looks TO ME similar to what you were offered, so I don't think you should have demanded everything back. I said nothing about your happiness.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

That's fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. But both him and me agreed the work was not up to snuff.
One sample might have been sketchier than the other, but I'd want something at least somewhere in between; i.e. with finished linework for example.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I'm just comparing it to a commission, if a similar thing happened, where the artist did not produce up to snuff and then didn't follow through, usually only a partial refund is in order?

Like I said, though, there's plenty to beware of regardless of opinions on that particular part of your transaction :O

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Yes I totally agree with this comment. From the exchange I personally think y'all are both kind of to blame for escalating this situation. His passive aggressive posts did not help the matter, but demanding or even what you perceive to be asking for a better quality picture for items you were willing to give away for free stressed him out to the point where he didn't want to produce anything else, despite his vowing to try. Unlike commissions, you can't really quality control trades the same way, especially trades for items you were planning on just trying to get rid of in the first place. I also agree that the sketch seems consistent with his previous work.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Agreeing here. I'm NOT saying the artist isn't at fault, but it's pretty clear at the beginning that he wasn't expecting a trade, just a little gift for holding them longer, since the plushies were already free. I'm wondering if he just felt pressured after he finally realized what the OP meant, ran along with it, trying to figure out what he could say, etc.

[cappucola.livejournal.com]

it's always interesting to see a post about someone you used to know well.
I've never seen him act this terrible before, but I'm not really surprised either. It's also disappointing to see how he's barely improved with art over the years either.

[cappucola.livejournal.com]

oh, and if it means anything: about 3 years ago I won his kiriban/pageview thing on FA and never received a picture for it even though he made such a big deal about it and the chance for free art.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

It's also disappointing to see how he's barely improved with art over the years either.

Please mind rule number 4:

4. No criticism of artistic quality or monetary value. This is not a critique community.

[morti-macabre.livejournal.com]

Really hilarious to know that Zebra-type stripes are "complex."

That being said, I don't like this person personally. They say some REALLY ignorant shit.

Thanks for the heads up, your character is awesome and I wish you the best.

[wingsofjudas.livejournal.com]

I would say that this http://www.furaffinity.net/full/4863411/ and this http://www.furaffinity.net/full/3881207/ are of comparable quality. You can nitpick some minor differences with how yours was cleaned up but it's so close I wouldn't put much weight on it.

But http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4863411/ and http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2882939/ seriously do not even look like they are by the same artist, at least to me. I'm not saying they aren't but just that the difference in quality is pretty severe. If that was the only example he'd given I would be bothered but the first example he offered and the finished product seem cohesive and the stuff you were just going to donate anyways... His attitude is crap though, this whole thing could have been handled much better.

For what it's worth, I have an iphone and I've used other types of smart phone and unless you use on app (which FA does not have) I am not aware of any way to upload an image from the phone to a website directly. I update my journal, use the notes, favourite stuff, and comment on FA all the time from my phone but I can't post art and even if I could, I would have to transfer the art onto the phone via a working computer first (assuming it was the file and not a photo taken with the phone).

[wingsofjudas.livejournal.com]

Correcting myself: Android smartphones DO let you upload directly to the web.

Also, in rereading this issue I can't help but feel like some mistakes were made on both ends. I still think he acted poorly but that the situation was escalated by both parties in that you expected more than was understood. This started out as a freebie grab with your intent to not reserve anything or give everything to one person and when he offered you art, you did just that. I don't think it was clear to him what you wanted nor is it worth waging a war over it considering you were just going to donate the stuff in the first place and fulfilled what he said he'd do.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I've used both iPhone and Android and neither are very good for drawing though, he claims he doesn't have a computer and can't make digital art, but his gallery is inundated with digital work even right before and after he made the claim.

And again, we both agreed the sketch was not up to snuff, a third party's opinion on that specific matter is moot. It doesn't even more than roughly resemble my character, whom he had to ask details about again even after said sketch? It's obviously a rushed doodle.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

Eh. I'm going to agree with most of the most of the other commenters and say that the picture he did for you doesn't really look any worse then his usual stuff. All of his art seems to have that somewhat scratchy lineart style. The bat character he linked does have a more detailed outfit on, but your char was wearing a bikini-type set in the ref you gave him, so you can't blame him that much for lack of clothing detail. He did take the time get all those stripes right.

Looking at the wording of the screencaps you posted, he said something like: "I'll offer a little token as a thank-you for your kindness" or something like that. It doesn't sound like he intended to get into a "serious" transaction. He was offering you a picture as thanks for holding stuff you were giving away for free anyway. The dude was probably flustered and surprised when you said you didn't like the picture, so he agrees to do something else to try and make you happy, but he's flustered and probably intimidated now and feeling like he got more then bargained for.



That said, though. He agreed to redraw the picture, so he should have and that's on him. But considering the type of transaction and the usual quality of this guy's art, I think you were being a little overly picky.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

He intended it as a serious transaction until the last 6 months of said transaction, his wording is pretty clear right up to then, especially in the initial notes in which he convinced me to hold the items for him and turns others away.

[zatanna-333.livejournal.com]

I'd be irritated and expect more too if someone dragged that out for 6 months for no good reason. Seems a little rude/ungrateful regardless of whether the items were 'free' or not. If he had produced that within a month I bet op would have been fine, but dragging it out and 'forgetting' them and their references multiple times is pretty insulting.

[luvythicus.livejournal.com]

While I feel bad about disappointing anyone, I made said promise right before my entire life collapsed. I lost all my friends, my girlfriend, my education collapsed, scars from the past resurfaced and I was locked in a struggle with myself, where I even nearly killed myself. I had a reason not to be focused. I still have. Finally, my life is starting to look up. But considering the fact that this has dragged on for so long, I forgot about things, and even her, because I have a hard time remembering people and didn't hear from her in a long time. Sometimes up to several months. So yes. I had my reasons. My PC broke down, my only source of income, and thus I couldn't draw. Gave in and figured it wasn't worth the fight after all that. She said she'd accept traditional. So I figured maybe it was a fun idea to do lots of doodles of her characters in all sorts of poses and expressions and outfits. The "corner of a piece of paper" were actually two A4-sized sheets with several doodles, even a drawing finished in pencil etc, something I normally never do, and I would've done more. I was working on it. But I didn't get a reply until 5 months later.

But, y'know, I don't really care. People are gonna kick up a shitstorm at some point. I have a very bad past, and only now, about two and a half years after everything collapsed after a horrible youth of fear and anxiety, I'm starting to see a brighter day.

I apologise again if I hurt or upset anyone. But I am not wasting another moment on this drama. Only feeds the trollfire. You didn't see me during that time. Or even in the past few weeks, as the effects still linger on. But I got a long list of happy clients and a gallery of commissions that I did finish to show that I'm not some random scam artist.


Do as you want, spam away on this account with angry messages. I'm never on my Livejournal. I've seen enough drama in my life, a few angry messages... Yeah, Imma just focus on my new career and my evergrowing path in art and designs.



Luvy out.