New Direction

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Ok well after reading several of ya'lls comments on the last entry and taking it all into consideration, I think the list would probably be a bad idea. I think it would be prudent to have some sort of refrence about what artists/commisoners to look out for, but there would be alot involved in making such a list, and like Thaily said, you can't take verbitum what anyone says over the interent. There are 2 sides to every story, and this would put a lot of folks reputations online.

I did however notice quite a few people had the idea for a dos and donts of commisioning which I think would be less accustory but still helpful to people. We could even post the link around to a few other comms.

So I'd like to hear suggestions for such a list.

I think I have one:
Make sure the person's who you are dealing with email works, and they respond to it before hand, that way you don't get stuck trying to email someone and have all your emails returned.

Once we have a nice list of these going we can make a memory of it, and perhaps put a link to it on the user info (with mod permission of course).

So what do ya'll think about this?

Comments

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

If we do this list, I think is would be good to list laws and other legal and business issues associated with commissions. So not just etiquette, you know? I have a link to the US copyright office's webpage, with a TON of useful info: copyright stuff (http://copyright.gov/)

I also think this list or info page should be for both sides (artist and customer), so that everyone knows the bounderies. I'm not sure what else to contribute right this moment, but I'm sure other folks will have some good stuff to say. =3

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

If the list does go through, someone else will have to compile it. I would do it if I did not just start back school. If the demand arises and more people back it I might be persuaded to do it again. Thank you so much for the link to the copyright stuff. That is just handy info to know for any reason.

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

Then, to throw this out there, will any of the mods or anyone in charge (or really anyone) be willing to take this task on? It's a good suggestion, but without anyone to do it, I'm afraid it may never happen. =/

[drakenhart.livejournal.com]

Maybe someone can host a Wiki-pedia style site? Agressively moderated to keep "crap" posts from filling it. This way teh community as a whole can work it and not ONE person. :)

[dani-kitty.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see you implement a Do's and Don't list instead of a 'blacklist' -- I believe that this will be more constructive in the longrun, and lots less drama-fied.

That was my *only* point in my comment (except wanting non-nfandom vernacular used for the sake of being taken seriously), believe it or not, I don't have a vendetta aginst you! *gasp!* ;)

[stoplabelingme.livejournal.com]

Future is spelled F-u-t-u-r-e.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Spelling was never one of my strong points.
And this whole spelling assault on my comments is really unnecessary and is just meant to cause further drama. But for your sake I will try to spell check my posts.
Now please stop being rude.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

why all the deleted comments :-P

this is a community post, after all, shouldn't we all be able to see?

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

The were just causing drama. I deleted a few of mine too. And the other ones were correcting my spelling. Their deleted. Its over. You missed it. Let's move on now.
Do you have any suggestions for the original topic on the community?

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

ouch, i thought perhaps they might add more to the original post and thats why i asked.

no need to get snippy, jebus.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Let's just keep to topic please.

Didn't mean to get snippy with you. I apologize.

[stoplabelingme.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[hetzakoatl.livejournal.com]

Well, I have read the posts in here...

The list might have worked, but I think it would just draw more attention to the artists you would want blacklisted. :P

A do and don't list is a better idea. Along with people posting positive and negative experiences they've had. Names not necessary...

My first don't is... don't send any cash until you get some sort of proof work is being done. Or arrange a half now/half later deal.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

That is usually what I do when it comes to commisions. I will pay half now, and half later.
It is a really good policy.

[hetzakoatl.livejournal.com]

Heee, well, currently, I'm out 100 bucks and no drawings. :P

[auradeva.livejournal.com]

I've lost a lot of time by sending someone a sketch before getting any payment. The commissioner will approve the sketch and then disappear without sending any payment. But this is part of starting off as an artist offering commissions. After a couple of years I had established my self with enough good feedback on furbid and other places (including word of mouth) that I was trust worthy. I was then able to feel confident enough to charge at least the price of the sketch up front.

So, instead of labeling that as a don't, I would say a better rule would be to ask the artist you intend to commission for some feedback ratings or do a bit of research on your own. Including browsing through this community ^_~

[banrai.livejournal.com]

Eh, It'd be a good idea, if only it wouldn't start drama. It still smells of dramabomb to me.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

How would this cause drama? It would be a lists of suggestions for when it comes to commisioning people or for artists who are commisioned. No names will be named, and no one will be accused of anything? How is this suppose to cause drama?

[banrai.livejournal.com]

Because furries always find a way to cause drama.

Seriousley, though. I guess it's an Ok enough idea, but I get the feeling that most of the stuff listed on it would be no-brainer, common sense sort of things.

Personally, when I accept commissions (which I've been backing off on lately due to health problems) I refuse any payment until I've done a preleminary, lose sketch. Once the commissioner and I decided on a final pose, I request payment, either half or full, depending on the nature of the piece (usually half for digital, full for real media due to the cost of materials) Then, if half payment is requested, I request the second half when I send the final for approval and changes. I do one revision for free. Anything else I charge for, depending on what they want changed. But I've only ever had to do one revision, and I charged a whole $3 for it.

*shrugs* Just my .02

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I do apperciate you feed back. While it might seem common sense to you, I know alot of people are largely ignorant to this sort of thing, whichi s why it is good to do something like this.
And we furries do love our drama, eh?

And by the way did you get my comment I left in yoru journal?

[banrai.livejournal.com]

I did, and checkmated a comment in your own. :D

And hey, I *know* about furry drama. I'm still being stalked by 16 year olds. *twitch*

[chmarr.livejournal.com]

A 'dos and donts' list sounds like a really neat idea.

With your permission I'd like to put the final list up on the VCL wiki. If you like, you can use the wiki to create the document, too. I've set up a place-holder page: http://us.vclart.net/wiki/Guide_to_Art_Commissions

Up to if you use it or not.

[drakenhart.livejournal.com]

ya know I just suggested that above. I should REALLY honestly read through all the posts forst. ;) lol

:)

[chmarr.livejournal.com]

Heehee. I must admit that I didn't see your post :)

To all: I don't allow anonymous posting on the VCL wiki. More an anti-spam measure than anything else; we were getting a ton of automated link-spam

[thaily.livejournal.com]

For the artist's side: Get at least half of your money up front!
For the customer's side: A commission is a business transaction, it doesn't mean you're suddenly bestest friends with the artist O_o;

[tania.livejournal.com]

A "Dos and Don'ts" list sounds like a great idea. I can't support the idea of a blacklist, though, as there are always two sides to a story. That's what this community is here for. Generally, if an artist is a rip-off merchant, their name gets around.

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

I’m happy to back the idea of a ‘do’s and don’ts’ list for commissioners and artists. I’d even be happy to donate some guidelines which I personally implement to safe-guard myself when taking commissions, or when buying art from others.

I don’t know where you plan to host such a guide, but I think even Elfwood might appreciate a copy in the business section of their FARP.

[drakenhart.livejournal.com]

Techincally.., this lj community IS the "blacklist". As far as I know most companies don't actually /keep/ a _physical_ list of who they've had bad dealings with. Companies will talk to each other, even if they are competeting companies.

I know from personal experience, one of my college teachers got black listed from teh animation industry for somethign he didn't do. It last about five years before /anyone/ was willing to clear things up. This is an example, both good an dbad, of how the power of communication can work.

So No, we deffinately don't /need/ a physical list of those blacklisted. As nice as it would be for folks to browse through a list of names and identitites to keep themselves safe from bad business transactions, it also means constant updates.

In the length of time I've been here, I can't count the number of names that have come up on bopth hands and feet. ;) So that would be a HECK of a lot of updating on a regular basis. Far, far, too much work.

Also as has been said, such a list would bring positive attention to those listed, as much as negative attention. I know, personally, at LEAST 3 artists who have made their "fame" because of people bad mouthing them, or black listing them in other communities. I won't name names, but suffice to say that at least 1 is a BIG NAME, now.., and teh other two are well on their way to being such. All because of some bad press.

But having an overall how-to and help guide would be a MUCH better idea. It shows that we aren't just a huge bitch-fest of a community. It shows that we are looking out for people in as much of a positive light as a negative one. It shows that we are doing good things in a pro-active sort of way, rather then a very passive sort of way, but _actively- and as a community working on such a project as this help guide. :)

;)

My two cents. :)

[mix-hyenataur.livejournal.com]

*thumbs down*

Yeah, I've seen Lacy getting bashed excessively for minor stuff, aka using balaclavas instead of mesh or being a few days late, yet her works are teh awsomeness.