Some advice needed...

[diprotodontia.livejournal.com]

Long story short, I shipped out a commission to someone overseas, and it hasn't arrived.

The shipping was $10 and I underquoted the shipping price to begin with, so I wound up having to pay for nearly half of it out of pocket. I feel terrible that the commission hasn't arrived, but I'm not sure what to do. Insurance wasn't placed on the package and I haven't had it returned to me yet.

I offered to replace the item for free if they paid shipping costs, but they said that they weren't able to afford that right now, which I understand. But I got the impression that they wanted a refund, and I can't really afford to do that myself, especially not after paying so much of the original shipping costs out of pocket.

Ergh. I don't know what to do or say to them. I don't want them to feel like they've been ripped off, but I can't really control the postal service. I probably should have put insurance on it, but that would have been additional costs that I wouldn't have had covered by the commissioner, so er. I feel really stuck. I want to be fair but I am also struggling financially lately and I can't afford to pay for additional supplies AND another $10 of shipping to replace their item in total and I definitely can't afford a refund.

Comments

[fuzibuni.livejournal.com]

How long ago did you ship it out? Sometimes things get tied up in customs and take a while.

[diprotodontia.livejournal.com]

About a month ago. I suggested that possibility to the customer, actually, but they didn't really respond to that comment so I'm sort of assuming that they don't feel very optimistic about it.

[jakejynx.livejournal.com]

I once sent a package overseas that never arrived. About four months after sending it out, it arrived back at my doorstep. It will take a VERY long time for it to get back to you if in fact it's undeliverable for some reason. Ask the commissioner to check with their local customs office.

[kawaiipiepie.livejournal.com]

I remember reading somewhere that when they send it back to sender they use the cheapest method, which is usually the slowest too, by ship/boat. So even if you send it express to the customer, and it gets there in a few days but fails to get delivered, it can take weeks and weeks for it to come back. D:

[merlin-the-wise.livejournal.com]

A month? I've lived in Canada and Australia, I usually get quoted 6 weeks as minimum for overseas parcels unless you pay for a rush... And I'm still waiting on things I shipped to Aus from Canada um, eight weeks ago? Really, at this point I'd say you'll just have to wait patiently.

Also, I don't know where you're sending it to, but some countries (like Australia) have packages get held up at customs for many weeks for little-to-no reason.

Just let the customer know it may take a little more time, IMO it's really too early to worry yet.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

I've had some mail/packages take a long while before.

The mail/customs sorting is absolutely crazy, it's not unheard of to have an item dropped in a warehouse or put somewhere it don't belong and has to be re-sorted

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Ugh this is my biggest worry with shipping overseas/another country.. I shipped an old tablet to Canada... She never really replied saying she got it, or didn't. Her e-mail appeared to have been phished because she would send nonsense or virus links, so she never replied back to me, meaning I also no longer have her e-mail so I can't continue asking if she got it, but i'm sure if she didn't get it, I woulda heard about it by now, considering it's been well over a year..

[seth-unholy.livejournal.com]

It took, literally, three months once from something to get from here to Calgary-- I have no idea what happened or WHY it took that long, it basically got stuck in Mail Purgatory for a while, and arrived all mangled and horrid looking (the stuff inside was fine, though!) I'd probably bet it was customs, but since they didn't seem too inclined to agree with that... Iunno. I would probably make the offer of, whenever you can afford the shipping, the slot for a replacement is there if it doesn't arrive so that they don't feel like it's time intensive and if they don't accept it right now then too bad.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

The customer didn't ask for insurance either I am guessing?

Personally, it's not your fault. I always appreciate if an artist is willing to redo things, but if they can't/won't and I didn't get insurance, well, that was my mistake.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

You'd be surprised how long it takes sometimes for things to get shipped. I'd say give it more time. It took me more than 2 months to receive something from Canada and I'm in the US. So it might be stuck in customs or something.

Honestly if they didn't ask for insurance or tracking, it's not your fault.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

o_O really? Holy cow, you are like right next door.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

I know, that's what I said. And yet it happens.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

Gotta love the postal service :\

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Hell I've had something mailed in the US to me and it got lost for 4 months and ended up at my door step almost ripped open (from a sorting machine?) but the item was intact. Sometimes things just get lost for a while and take a long time to work itself out.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

(no edit)

It didn't even return to sender. It just floated in limbo FOREVER. lol
It was weird. By then I already got in contact w/ the seller and replaced the item. So I got two for the price of one. (I wanted to send it back but they said keep it for the trouble)

[wereguitar.livejournal.com]

Canada Post is still severely behind after the postal strike this past summer. My Dad sent me mail from my hometown to the city I live in now (in the same province) and it still took about 3 weeks.

[sushidragon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that mail strike really didn't help matters. I recently got some mail that was sent out in April!

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

oh boy, is it ever.

when it was time to pay for university, my receipt finally showed up in the mail a week after payment was due.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

ugh. I've had this happen.

I waited SIX MONTHS for snail-mail payment to arrive to where I live in Manitoba from New York. at first, I'd figured that the commissioner had just scammed me out of a product, but sure enough, half a month later, it showed up, most marked to when he said he sent it.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

Did the person opt to not have insurance? Because as you said you have no control over the shipping of goods. Either way message them and explain what happened and explain that the shipping ended up costing more which came out of YOUR pocket.

In all seriousness though I've had things from the US shipped and it's taken a few months to get to Australia (god knows what the hells the postal services were doing) since it normally take no more than 3 weeks....4weeks tops normally.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I have a clause in my TOS about this. Once it's out of my hands, there's nothing I can do if it gets lost.

That said, in the future, you should consider offering insurance with the understanding that if they don't take it and it doesn't arrive, there's nothing you can do. Insure it for how much they paid, including shipping, and if something is lost you can simply refund them (or redo the commission with the insurance money as payment).

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Well it's too late for this case but, like others have said, always put insurance on something unless the customer specifically agrees that they will be responsible if the item is lost in the mail. Er, and of course have the customer pay for the shipping costs.

As others have said, it might well still be in postal limbo. Is there any sort of tracking on it? Can the customer bug their local postal service about it? I think I read about a case on here where that worked, the package was held up at a nearby hub, something shipped France I think.

I guess in this case the best you can do is offer to replace the item if they pay for full shipping, or continue to wait it out.

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

OH GOD, FRANCE. Paris is notorious for being a sucking black hole that adds two-three weeks to travel time if the package came in there. if it came in through another international airport, its fine. it's just Paris that sucks. (LA is the sucking blackhole of the US)

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

It's not uncommon for stuff to get held up in customs, especially if the address was written by hand. Or if it won't fit in their mailbox. Those little notes that say 'hey, you need to come pick this up at the post office' get lost fairly frequently, or tossed as junk mail.

That said, sometimes you can shake it loose from the commissioner's end by telling them to go to the post office and ASK if they have a package on hold. This makes it turn up pretty often.

Boilerplate note to use:
"Try going to your local post office and asking if they are holding a package for you. They should leave you a note if they have a package for you, but they tend to look similar to junk mail, so you may have overlooked the notice. ask at the post office and there's good odds they're holding it for you."


I ship around 1-2 packages internationally every week and this solves the problem more than half the time.

[atateatarin.livejournal.com]

Those little notes that say 'hey, you need to come pick this up at the post office' get lost fairly frequently, or tossed as junk mail.

This this this so much!

It's probably a very good idea to ask your customer to call their local post offices to find out if their package is there. I had it happen with a shipped-international commission that was in limbo for a month because the postie on the commissioner's end had neglected to leave a notecard in the first place. The post office even claimed that they didn't have it! We only found out that they did because I was able to get detailed delivery attempt information through the postal service on my end because of the shipping service we'd used.

[linksage.livejournal.com]

Sometimes even local packages take some time. I tried sending a piece across country, and it was in transit during hurricane Irene (the package was heading straight down the east coast too, so I was quite worried). At least a month or two passed before it finally turned up again; turns out the address I was given wasn't 100% accurate, but point being it can take some time. I once bought a game from someone too that disappeared, and I guess ended up back at the seller's place months later. x_x That was domestic, too.

tl;dr: I'd give it some more time.

On a side note, I think you can get purchase receipts from most post offices too (for around $1), so you at least have an official document saying that you shipped. Anything after that is out of your hands. Not as expensive as insurance but still a way to cover yourself should something go wrong.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

Totally this! I live in a college town in a rural state and mail has the weirdest time getting to me. It's like 3 or 4 days from the nearest large city (3.5 hour drive,) but coming from two states away (over 10 hours drive,) it only took like a day and that's not even accounting for bad weather.

[findmealone.livejournal.com]

When shipping items to the US I have this problem - once had a customer email me 5 working days after shipping demanding proof of postage or a refund immediately. I live in the UK.

It's probably waiting in customs - ask him to double check his mail for letters from them, or ask at the PO.

[syrusb.livejournal.com]

As many have said, tell your buyer to go to their post office and inquire about a possible package. The post office may have more information for them. Give it more time.

If you want to do make up art that's cool, but don't feel under the obligation to do so. What happened is not your fault. This kind of situation is not uncommon.

In the future, offer insurance on a package and let the buyer know that if they decide to pass on it you're not responsible once the package has left your hands. Keep your shipping receipt handy until they receive the package. It both proves you shipped and may be helpful in tracking a lost parcel.

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

I've shipped to and gotten packages from Australia. Korea, and Germany before. It never took longer than 2-3 weeks for me?

At any rate, echoing the above. Just wait for it to turn up and offer to re-do it if they pay shipping (esp since you paid the first time, I KNOW hwo expensive that is, yikes).

Also add something into your ToS; as it is now if you don't have anything, they could press you for a refund just because there's nothing about it. But just be professionally assertive and it should be fine. :)

[ocelotish]

First of all, I hope it's just in limbo and will be found shortly.

If not, I think that you're going to be the one responsible because you haven't delivered the item to the customer. I don't think it's your fault, but one thing that we know is that the customer is innocent so it seems wrong for them to lose out because shipping is screwed up. In the future make sure to include shipping insurance and such in your S&H quote, and I'd say go on the high end rather than the low end. If you over charge, it's easy to send them the couple of bucks back as a gift saying that you over-estimated and apologize. Customer isn't upset because they're getting a surprise $5, and you're happy because you have shipping covered.

[ogawaburukku.livejournal.com]

I once shipped the same thing to two different people in two different countries on the same day. The item going to Lithuania arrived a week later, and the item going to Canada arrived four weeks later, and both countries are about the same distance from where I live.

You might wait until it's been two months before you start panicking. You also might consider asking your clients to buy insurance so that if they choose not to, this sort of thing isn't your fault. I save the receipt so I can show people I shipped it out in case they complained of an article not arriving.

[kinas.livejournal.com]

Echoing "give it time". I've had a parcel go missing for two months before finally landing at my door. Scariest two months ever, both the artist and myself were super relieved when it turned up safe and sound. Hang in there!

These days, I tend to give commissioners a choice between services. Registered or non-registered. :D! Do you use your postal online site to quote shipping?

[sekhmet.livejournal.com]

If you do not have a section about this sort of thing in your TOS I suggest adding one. In my own, I state that it is the responsibility of the customer to request tracking/insurance for their package, and that they will pay the extra for it. Otherwise I will send it under ordinary shipping and I am not responsible for lost packages. Theres not much you can do once it leaves your hands at the post office!

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Have them check the post office, if not give them time!

Just a note about insurance is that the US post office doesn't insure anything international over $46 and you have to pay $12 on top of that along with international shipping.

[excessdenied0.livejournal.com]

I would recommend that you do two things:

Call up your local post office and ask how long a package like that could expect to take to arrive. I live in Canada, and I recently shipped a commission to Australia, and was told to expect it to take 6-8 weeks to arrive. If this person is anywhere overseas, I would expect a similar wait.
Make sure you explain that to the customer before you even consider refunding anything, because it could completely change the way he's feeling about this transaction. It could easily just be a bit of a misunderstanding.

I would also recommend that you consider the possibility that you are being ripped off, depending on the dollar value of the item you sent. If you didn't pay for tracking or insurance, there may be no way for you to know whether or not the package has arrived. It is very easy for someone to get the item, say that it never arrived, and demand a refund from someone who is kind enough to take their word for it on good faith alone.
That isn't necessarily what is happening here, but I would definitely put something in a TOS to avoid that problem in the future. It could be as simple as asking the customer to cover any insurance and tracking costs, and explaining that you cannot guarantee safe arrival of the commission without it. To cover your own butt, you'd only need to provide the receipt(by scan or photograph) to prove that the item was indeed sent safely and properly.

I hope that helps! This is kind of a gray area as far as what you can do here, because you didn't discuss what you would do in this case with the customer in advance... So for this alone, I would say asking the customer to cover shipping costs on a replacement commission is perfectly reasonable. If that offer is refused... Well, whether or not you provide a refund is really your call. If you have proof that you created and mailed the commission, then I don't think you are legally required to provide a refund, but I'm not totally sure. This is a tough situation.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Alright, I know you mailed it out liek a month ago but last night I saw on the news about the amount of boxes FedEx is moving around in the holiday season this year.. something like in the millions.. so this COULD be why its taking a while. Some people like to ship holiday items out early

[hebitheivan.livejournal.com]

Depends on the country you are sending it to as well. Once when I send a package to Spain to my friend, it took almost 3 months to arrive, and that is because I have heard that Spain is very slow with shipping...

[doppleganger55.livejournal.com]

Really? I've sent stuff to Spain before and it takes about a week.

[yogiras.livejournal.com]

Where exactly did you send it to?

I am in Australia and I only find customs seizing packages when either the parcel was valued over $1000, or that the parcel did not have a customs declaration form (it may have fallen off the package). In future, value parcels at or under $20 unless it is very large.

I have also heard that in places like Italy, postal workers are notorious for stealing parcels and money orders.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

Sticky :I

Do you have the receipt for the mailing transaction? If you do, scan/take a picture of it and send it to your buyer. If you are unable to provide proof that it's no longer in your hands it's going to make you look bad and if it were me I'd replace it at my cost. It's not really about fairness but about proving it's not your fault-- "it was lost in the mail" is often indistinguishable from "I never even sent it" from a third part perspective.

From now on you definitely need something in your TOS that outlines that no high-value packages are sent without insurance AND delivery confirmation. Smaller ones can be send out the same way or at buyer's risk but are just that.