artists_beware | (no subject)

WHO: Kee/Kyme/Inarolyn/Iaz/Janks/Len/Neicom

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kee (all the above are also FA accounts that she has hopped between, but Kee is her current).

WHAT: Tracing. Most of the traces are partial and have been "frankensteined".

WHEN: This has been going on for awhile from what I have been able to figure.

EXPLAIN: Again, I was asked to post this here by several people after compiling multiple instances of her tracing of recent. A lot of people felt a public warning should be made, since she jumps accounts quite frequently. She's also traced several times in the past, but I haven't been able to locate the originals.

As an example, this is art from five-six months ago that she drew while living with me:
http://i44.tinypic.com/jzodv.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/jgo415.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/jt5hj5.png
She's never traced while living with me because I had gotten onto her in the past for copying other artists.

These are the traces I've found evidence of:
First example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820740/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6820732/    [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6595400/ [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i44.tinypic.com/s1kksm.jpg    [NSFW]

Second example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6894553/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6577848/    [NSFW]
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/25r1sh1.png   [NSFW]

Third example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898927
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6703170/
Overlay:
http://i39.tinypic.com/otfbcw.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34r617b.jpg

Fourth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898413
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6057168/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/fljxvr.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/14m5abk.jpg

Fifth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898388
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6789179/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ppzyx4.jpg

Sixth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6807846/
Traced from:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5060030/
Overlay:
http://i42.tinypic.com/yyp01.jpg

Edit:
Got shown these ones last night:
Seventh example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898399   [NSFW]
Traced from:
http://i42.tinypic.com/aekvg5.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i41.tinypic.com/ohis69.jpg   [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/2a7v9c4.png    [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/wsw93q.png    [NSFW]

Eighth example:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6811551/
Traced from:
http://i40.tinypic.com/zupcli.png     [NSFW]
Overlays:
http://i44.tinypic.com/350nrxh.jpg     [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/1042nn6.jpg    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/kdx5b8.jpg   [NSFW]

Almost all the traces have been of artists whom she's watching, the only exception being my own art.

Suspected traces:
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6852690/       [NSFW]
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6898425/    [NSFW]
http://i44.tinypic.com/xdruq0.jpg (from 2010)       [NSFW]
http://i42.tinypic.com/14kifzn.jpg (from 2010)     [NSFW]

There were a few others that were TCBY commissions that I am certain were traced, but I never saved the files.

As is evidenced, her anatomy flipflops from really well done, to filled with errors. If anyone can provide originals for some of the suspected traces, it'd be appreciated as well. NO ONE improves that greatly in a five month period, drawing as rarely as she does. I don't think everything she uploads/draws is traced, but much of it is.

Edit: Here's some more overlays with varying opacity's to give a clearer idea of where the lines are a perfect match.
http://i44.tinypic.com/206fmvt.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2s9alas.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2gw7v3o.jpg [nsfw]
http://i43.tinypic.com/1j9nit.jpg [nsfw]

Edit2:
I'm redacting my allegations of tracing, as I really don't want to be involved in any drama with this person to start with.

Edit3: I'm sorry, to make it more clear, I am retracting my allegations as there isn't sufficient evidence of tracing going on. I have posted apologies here and on FA.

Fixed overlays with proper aspect ratio:
http://i44.tinypic.com/rhj09f.jpg

Here it is in 3 different colors, still matching in the same areas. (I rotated it quickly, so it's not the exact same as the other overlays, but I'm too tired to redo all this again just to be perfect for the naysayers).
http://i39.tinypic.com/r0vw4h.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/de6ycw.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/mil4kh.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/nvnzx4.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/15i9g8j.png

There is no WAY any of the above have been distorted, as I did use the shift key as I was told.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Every professional artist I've spoken to indicates that the hands are the hardest part of the body to draw (possibly up there with the face, but most will say the hand is harder), I have never heard that about the hips or torso. From an anatomical point of view, there is far less happening in the hip (it's a single ball and socket). In addition, the artist has changed or added structures in the torso that indicates she is capable of drawing it and even the OP of this post admitted it.

This is neglecting how many points of articulation are in the hand too. If we simplify the wrist to a ball and socket joint like the hip, the hand has 14 more clear joints that the hip area, even more are hidden and act more subtlety. When comparing a traced or copied hand, there will be about 10 points that will line up (if I'm stingy), in these hip overlays, you'll get about 3 (and I'm being generous).

In addition, a point is far harder to align than a curve. A curve can be aligned at multiple points, whereas point really only has one potential area of overlap. This makes it substantially easier to get a false alignment.

And this is further neglecting that the artist herself has posted references that match the poses much more closely than the art the OP posted.

welp. nothing i say matters here. my bad. didn't realize that.

Not when everything you say is demonstrably wrong.

Calm down Cel, at this point you've explained yourself very logically and clearly. They just choose not to listen and that's their unfortunate loss.

Sorry, I get frustrated when logic is simply dismissed as a grudge.

my unfortunate loss for believing that every artist struggles in different ways?

okay.

this is all i said.

"some people have a natural knack for certain things.
there is no definitive list of things ordered by difficulty to draw.

it's different for everybody.

just because you can draw a hand does not mean that you can grasp the concept of a shapely woman."

is this wrong?

Tell you what, you find an example of someone who has good hands and noticeably misshapen torsos, or a professional artist saying something similar and then we'll talk. Sound fair?

And just so you don't claim I don't have any proof of my statement, this guy: http://youtu.be/pR9YU1ThhAk at 1:10 talks about how the hand takes half of his time on a draw as it's like a whole body in and of itself. Loomis has an entire book dedicated to hands and heads. Birdgman also has an entire book dedicated to hands. Neither have a book solely dedicated to torsos. I'm also limiting myself to very well respected teachers, not just any professional artist I can find.

look at the hands in kee's drawings, though.

these hand positions are either simple ones (that i know i personally use to hide the fact that i suck at drawing hands), or the hands are hidden.

i wouldn't call her good at them.

That was my point, that hands are harder than hips. Your mission is to find someone with good hands and lousy hips.

my original point was that every artist has different problem-areas, but we got off topic.

hizzie, for example, can draw hands like a beast, but she has troubles with knees. my boyfriend can draw hands, but finds it difficult to draw more than just one body type.

i personally have troubles with elbows of all things.

all i was trying to say is that, sure.. bodies seem easy enough to draw, but maybe (in the case that kee actually was tracing) she had an issue achieving the body type that she wanted, you know?

You also said that they might be having trouble with the torso several times. Now is your chance to prove it, against everything those drawing instructors I linked said. It's time to put up or shut up.

...how the fuck?

i'm just trying to say that everyone's different, and you're just hounding me for proof.

this isn't even a case against the validity of the overlays, here, and one of my drawings is even in one of them.

according to you, nobody in the history of EVER has had issues with torsos, waists, and hips.

Your point was that maybe her hands, heads, and feet were fine enough but she had issue with her waist and torso more.

My point was that no, people don't have more trouble with torsos to the point of possibly tracing them (as is implied by your posts), but are good with their hands to the point where they are fine.

You only need to provide an example (one) of someone who is good at hands but rubbish at another major area, the torso particularly, and you are yet to provide me with a single example. If it's so easily proven because everyone is different, then prove it. It should not take long.

What I have provided you with is proof that the hands are consistently an area where artists mess up, it's time to provide the same.

Oh, and here from Vilppu who is the man. "Hands and feet are particularly difficult because of the complexity of the forms to start with, and the variety of shapes, combinations and gestures they take. Hands and feet are subjects that seem to continually give artists a great deal of difficulty." Souce

Oddly enough, I can think of one example. His initials are R.L. and, believe it or not, his hands do look more anatomically correct than his waists half the time. http://images.comiccollectorlive.com/covers/bf5/bf57c825-805d-401f-ab81-8ea283045f27.jpg

Though I'm sure this due to lack of anatomical knowledge in general rather than just having trouble with torsos.

With that guy his hands are just as distorted: http://progressiveboink.com/b/images/rob/spideyfingers.jpg

Sometimes he gets hands right, waist wrong, and vice-versa.

you're always right.

my bad for even stumbling upon this community.

If you don't like this community you can leave. No one is forcing you to be here.

Ok, this has gone well past a valid discussion; I'm freezing this thread.

(no subject)

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