Child Pornographer?

[xaxona.livejournal.com]

Hey all, I am new here but I had a run in with a Comissioner recently who I suspect of being an advocate of child pornography in a sense. I wanted to bring it to people's attention because he is asking for many comissions from people on deviantArt and I want people to know that they should maybe stay away from him.

Why do I think he advocates child pornography and why should this be avoided if he is not asking for you or anyone to comission things of that nature?

His AIM is RoninninjaGemini and his deviantArt name is DragonTamerGemini and he asked me to do a commission for him of what he called "Chibi Goku". "Chibi Goku" REALLY meant Goku from Dragon Ball as a little kid (which ever series that was... there are too many to keep track). Okay, so that wasn't a big deal.... until he started pressing the fact that Kid Goku MUST be naked. Okay, I've seen some cute pictures from the show of Goku's ickle butt and his cute tail and such and wouldn't have had a problem.... except the way he kept insisting and pushing that he had to be naked and he wanted to see his butt. Very creepy.

So then we were discussing the pose he wanted for this picture. He tried to make it sound innocent, but everytime he talked about it, I was getting worse and worse feelings. And then he kept coming up with the poses I was not comfortable with and thought weren't appropriate. At one point I tried to draw one of the poses he tried to play off as innocent but no matter how I did it, it looked perverted or like it could be taken wrongly. I started to freak out by this time because I was pretty sure that the whole thing was wrong and the guy was messed up, but I like to give people the benifit of the doubt. I talked to a friend of mine and when I told her, she got all serious and asked me for his names and stuff because some guy had asked her sister to do some nasty porno drawing of the same little Kid Goku and a freaking digimon character. It turns out, it was the same exact guy.

I have also seen that he has comissioned others to do naked Kid Goku... even though those were pretty innocent. I also wonder if I should report him... to somewhere. I was debating saying something to deviantArt because I don't want him getting involved with any other reputable artists. But... technically he isn't violating and dA policy... Has anyone else run into this person?

Comments

[haricotvert.livejournal.com]

a tad messed, yes he is, but he's not asking for actual photos of naked children in suggestive poses so i doubt anything can be done...

[raygirlrol.livejournal.com]

Yeah but I personally think that anyone who finds sexual gratification in the idea of kids (real or fictional) having sexs or being in sexual position means they're pretty messed up. It's more the idea behind it than the medium itself...but it does depend how well you draw I suppose XD

[xaxona.livejournal.com]

See this is what I think too. But I think haricotvert was meaning legal action can't be taken. In which I really know that nothing can be done. It is still not right though. Cartoon or real.

[raygirlrol.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, you're totally right on that point ^_^ Shame though ¬¬ All those manga artists who draw kiddy porn would be locked up in a blink

[haricotvert.livejournal.com]

oh i'm totally not saying he's not touched in the head. i'm just saying i'm not sure there can be anything done, except ignore his requests.

[raygirlrol.livejournal.com]

True true indeed :)

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

I tried to go to his DA page based on the name you gave me and it didn't work, I fail at life. You have a link? Maybe I copied/pasted it in wrong.

[drake-anaya.livejournal.com]

http://dragontamergemini.deviantart.com/

[auradeva.livejournal.com]

Goku dipped (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/28054298/) Oh my!

[endurian.livejournal.com]

That is a bit crazy. He seems like a perve or something.

[silverfolfen.livejournal.com]

creepy...

[coyotewings.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't blame you for feeling rather uncomfortable about the whole thing. I would be as well. It seems alittle fishy to me as well, and the fact that he decides the press the matter so much on him having to be naked and in certain odd poses. Hm. o.O;

[filthy-animal.livejournal.com]

http://dragontamergemini.deviantart.com/favourites/

Yeah. Creepy indeed.

[pitke.livejournal.com]

Avatar love! I feel like a horrible person for fangirling your av in a thread like this, but... ^^'

[aaaamory.livejournal.com]

Little kid cartoon characters aren't illegal or anything. There's an illustrator I know who draws very recognizeable cartoon characters (such as Powerpuff Girls) doing various nasty things, "...to purge everything cute from his system," when he's completed a project. If it's just too creepy and uncomfortable for you, just don't do it. 'Sides, aren't those characters trademarked?

Also, I wonder about the word 'pressure.' Are you being absolutely straight with him? He might think you're perfectly willing to do a commission for him but is thinking he's not being understood or his description isn't clear enough, if you say he keeps pointing out that Goku must be naked. Does that only need to be said once? Just be sure you're not avoiding saying anything.

[xaxona.livejournal.com]

No. I was perfectly straight with him. I told him several times that I was uncomfortable with the poses and the nakedness. He shrugged it off as "Oh sometimes I get carried away." Right. Like I said, I didn't mind the "baby butt cheek" picture he wanted, I mean they have those sort of pics of real babies but add it together with the pose and it was bad.

And yes, they are trademarked, however, he wanted fan arts of them and I am in no position right now to pass up $80 to draw fan art. And yes, you may be right that he is technically not doing anything illegal but that doesn't stop it from being morally wrong to me (and gross too).

And In the end, I didn't do it. I just thought people would like warning.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Why are you drawing trademarked characters for money? O_o

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Thaily makes a good point...

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

Be very careful with this. It's good that you asked our advice on the issue, instead of reporting him right away.

Keep in mind that drawings of children -- that is, charicatures of them, NOT based from photographic reference -- legally DOES NOT count as child pornography. There is precedence for it.

The possession and circulation of child pornography is a crime.

The possession and circulation of pornographic drawings, and photomanipulations, based on actual photos of children, is a crime.

The possession and circulation of pornographic drawings of children that are original material, such as cartoons, in other words, exactly like in THIS case that you're talking about -- is NOT a crime. It falls under freedom of speech.

Do not report this person unless you have solid evidence that he is in possession of real child pornography. Otherwise, what he is doing is perfectly legal. If you're uncomfortable with this at all, DON'T WORK WITH HIM.

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

Addendum:

These statements are all based on US law, of course.

The law is slightly different in Canada. But it's more than likely that any judgement calls made here are going to be based on US law, since I believe DA's servers are based on the US, and it's likely that this client is as well.

[xaxona.livejournal.com]

Oh I should have added that yes he was in the US. I kept the email with his name and adress just in case I needed it for my own safety against anything.

[xaxona.livejournal.com]

I should have made it clear that I really have no intention on reporting him as I was quite positive that there was nothing technically against the law. It just worries me that I will one day check out the news and see that some little boy dressed in a Goku costume has be reported kidnapped, raped an dead. You know?

I didn't work with him. He even tried to get me to do a clothed comission and I refused because the guy just made me so uncomfortable.

And thank you for that info about what is legal and not. It was quite interesting. I am curious how they can tell if it was based off of a photo if they don't have the photo.... Does that mean if it is photo real too?

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

That area of the law is a little murky to me. Admittedly I don't know the details much more than that; a photorealistic drawing is a tipoff to it being based on a photo, but a lot of judgement call does come into play. It'd be a case-by-case scenario in court. But needless to say, while it does recall a level of human analyzation abstracted from the law itself, there are obviously certain things about a drawing that make it feel as though it's based off a photo. Such photorealistic drawings are also illegal because although the item itself is not the photo, it's still supporting the industry of child porn in its making.

[xaxona.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, I see then. Very interesting indeed.

I'm am just glad I don't have to deal with him any more.

[growing-rose.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that drawn child porn is not illegal because techinically, it falls under the description of art and art is free speech. The photo realistic without reference sure would be damn hard to decide though.

[tailypo.livejournal.com]

There's no one to report him to; drawings of "children" doing things isn't illegal. (Besides, you can't *prove* a character in a drawing is underage, anyway. :P Drawings don't have age-of-consent. This is, of course, referring to cartoons and pictures that are not direct drawings from photos of underage porn.)

If you don't like drawing it, don't draw it. He'll find another artist willing to do it. You need to follow your own morals. Other artists will follow theirs.