Beware: AutumnHoney

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

WHO: AutumnHoney on DA (previously known as Xx-Manda-Panda-xX on DA)

WHERE:(new)http://autumnhoney.deviantart.com/ (old)http://xx-manda-panda-xx.deviantart.com/

WHAT: Custom costume hat to be made specifically by October, 2010 (for convention purposes)



WHEN:

July 5th, 2010 - Inquired about a custom hat commission, she seemed delighted about the project. Back and forth responses about the design and pricing for a few days. I asked that this project be finished before early October 2010 since I wanted to wear it to a convention, she agrees says it will be around 40USD so I send her references.

July 7th, 2010 - She replies with the price of 60USD for the custom changes which was A OK with me.

July 10th, 2010 - Sent the required amount via paypal. Payment was received with no problems.

July 11th, 2010 - Set up a Skype movie conversation with her so she could show me the fabrics she bought for the project. They looked awesome and I gave her the OK to start.

August 22nd, 2010 - Sent a polite PM asking how everything is going. No response.

September 16th, 2010 - Sent her another PM asking if everything is okay. No response.

October 10th-31st - I leave multiple messages on her dash, spaced out a few weeks in between to ask how everything is and to finally ask for a refund. No response to any of them and every message was 'hidden by owner'.

November 27th 2010 - Way past due date with no responses to DA PMs, I email her politely asking for a refund, saying I will leave a negative review on her DA dash to warn further customers if she doesn't respond. No response.

February 1st, 2011 - I have not tried to contact her since the last email, leaving another post on her dash. No response, 'hidden by owner'.

February 22nd, 2011 - She closes her DA account. I leave another message, no response and hides it, reiterates closing the account in May, 2011.

January 9th, 2012 - Somehow I remember about all of this and make an effort to see if this person is still on DA somewhere and I end up finding her. I contact her once more asking for a refund and stating I will post negative reviews on her business webpages if she does not refund me. She FINALLY responds saying that I have been 'harassing' her and will refund me but 'don't deserve it'. She has the gall to also say that she has 'tried to contact me' multiple times when I have not seen any sort of initiative to do so.


PROOF:
Response to the inquiry about a commission via DA PM on July 5th;


Paypal payment sent July 10th, 2010;

Name change on their paypal clarifies it's them on DA. The paypal notice used to be under their old name. (detail on that in explanation)

EXPLAIN: Ugh, okay. Let me be the first to say that I am normally a very patient person when it comes to commissioning things. I myself am an artist and I take commission work regularly, so I know all about commission woes and the such-- but it pisses me off to no end when you get no response for months and YEARS at this point only to find out they moved to a new account then try to say they contacted you multiple times when I have gotten NOTHING of the sort for years.

As the timeline states above, I commissioned Manda-Panda on July 5th 2010 to do a custom hat for me and they seemed thrilled to pieces to do it. Price was set, I paypaled them promptly and everything seemed to be going fine. We even set up a skype conversation and she showed me on a webcam all of the materials she bought to make it and they all looked awesome. We agreed it would be done by October so I could wear it to a convention where I was going to sell my artwork in costume. Time goes by and I don't hear anything about updates or progress, so I send another friendly poke. PMs were sent as followed;




(this pm was longer than one line, posting it here)

October rolls around and I hear nothing back. When your sent PMs are read by the recipent, they turn light green as they did in the screenshot, so I know she read them. I poke her on her DeviantArt Dash to check her pms to respond to me, of which messages she hides or has hidden since then. None of them were nasty posts, just enough information to warn others that I was not given the commission work she promised me and that she had yet to refund me. As I myself am someone who does commission work, I am thoroughly bonded and branded with the business etiquette of it. Every post that was hidden and wasn't responded to was as polite as they could be, asking for a refund and a response and nothing more.

In November I send her an email asking for a refund and a small warning that I will leave negative feedback yet again if she doesn't respond to me;



I will admit I did sound a bit brash when I threatened to expose her name and misconduct on journals of my websites, but for the life of me she would not respond to anything! She even CLOSES her DA account and apparently wipes off the face of the earth. Finally I say to myself, 'you know what? sixty bucks isn't worth the hassle, I'll forget about it'.

...That is until I found out she had made a new account completely, under the name of AutumnHoney. I know that that is her new account because my paypal statement shows this new name in my history. Loe and behold, same icon, same merchandise on the DA page, and the kicker is that they are taking commissions! I'm passed peeved at this point and do send a harsh PM at this point (not within reason) that states I will in fact post everything to my webpages and make an article on A_B if she does not refund me. Here is what follows;



Her reply:


My response:


I am just... Beyond baffled. Where is said replies? None to my email, none to my DA PMs, I am just -floored- they even responded like that. I said I would not post of this ordeal anywhere until we are finally resolved but I am just blown away by everything that has gone on and this is too ridiculous to keep in the dark. I know I look really bad posting this anyways and using a threat like that. I will admit that I was in the wrong for lashing out myself, but I was beyond furious and will take any slack that comes from that... But was I really in the wrong anywhere? waiting to post weeks and months and years after asking where my refund/product is?

This is just a concerned warning for anyone that wants to deal with this person in the future. I can't see how this is all a 'huge mistake' because I have no proof in my inboxes for the past 2 years that they have tried to contact me before this.

I'll update on this case if it progresses any further.



UPDATE 1: Artist has yet again chose to read my message and has failed to reply with 'proof' that they have actually responded or did work on this project. I'll give it a few more days.

UPDATE 2: They have finally paid me back. They did not reply or say anything, I just had money in my inbox today. It makes me think their spat was entirely made up and they never did anything. Just glad it's over.

UPDATE 3: I heard back from the artist today saying that they have sent me messages and what's been going on. I feel very bad about their unfortunate things in their life and if I were to have heard about them in messages, I would have been patient and left it alone. Unfortunately I honestly don't know if the messages were actually sent or not and am waiting for a response. If this was a big miss-hap, count the entire thing as 'Resolved' and do not discredit their business over this. I just don't understand how I could not get 'so many PMs' since I get dozens and dozens from other users just fine.

Comments

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty floored my self. You seem to have all logs and proof to back up your claim and unless she can post her side of trying to "contact you" then beware well warranted.

I think I'd be just as livid as you specially getting that last message. Mother or not no excuse for not replying at all in that time period.

Heck, I have two small children and am married and STILL able to constantly grind out art in only a 5 hour period. No excuse imo for her behavior.

Hopefully she'll be able to pay you back. Good luck.

[spiritlobo.livejournal.com]

Wow, what a nightmare...I'm so sorry you had to deal with that, OP.
I'm curious, Will you be posting on the DeviantART A_B page?

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

I might. If she follows through with the refund, I hope this suffices. I don't like being the bad guy, but throwing me under the bus like that? I'm really tempted.

[kikai-saigono.livejournal.com]

Hi, I'm the admin of the dA A_B page, and would gladly accept your complaint if you will send it our way.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Do you think you could make it clear in your group info that you're not officially affiliated with us? We don't want people to get confused that they're all run by the same people.

[kikai-saigono.livejournal.com]

Of course! I'm sorry I didn't think about it that way before -- I can see how it causes trouble.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Thanks a lot, we really appreciate it!

[eveshka.livejournal.com]

I admit that her behavior seems strange, and perhaps she is confusing you with someone else. Either way, unless there is more to this, it would seem appropriate to not post if you get your refund.

I find myself a bit flummoxed as to why you have hidden your identity in the DA conversations when your name and paypal email are clearly posted in the Manda Panda account shouts, though.

[lizbeast.livejournal.com]

You don't think it's appropriate to warn people from doing business from someone who doesn't respond to contact about an outstanding commission for over a year?

[eveshka.livejournal.com]

Not if her terms of agreement indicate that she won't if she gets her refund.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Disagree.
Going on a campaign would be unwarrented if they get a refund, but one post to a review community? I don't think OP should have to keep mum just to get their money back.

[eveshka.livejournal.com]

I am referring to a campaign as she mentions in the last statement to AutumnHoney.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Ah, I wasn't clear what you meant by "not to post", I thought you meant more / at all

[ocelotish]

Particularly if the move was unannounced.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

I'd feel the beware is warranted even if she does get her refund, the failure to outright reply and then what she says when she finally replies and says she'll give a refund.

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

I was pretty sure she hid all of them, but I guess that's not the case. I am at no legal fault for asking about something I paid for, I started compiling data for this a few months back and was hiding icons because I guess I was concerned about anonymity and continued to do so to be cohesive, but I really don't see the point in it now, either. Everything can be replaced with noncensored data, it isn't an issue.

What IS an issue to me (which I realized after sending the first PM a few days ago) is that I shouldn't have said I wouldn't post here regardless of outcome. Yes, that is 'my bad', but an experience like mine could happen again and I'd rather it to not happen with fair warning.

Mods have approved this Beware, if they thought it was misconduct, they wouldn't have let it be posted. If it was a slide by, feel free to take it down.

[crimson-flygon.livejournal.com]

That reaction is so nonsensical I have to wonder what the story behind it is. I really hope you get your refund, and I hope we hear more from her or she presents proof of these apparent messages to you? Crazy.

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

I am REALLY curious to see any proof of message from her. They are just...Magically not here. I honestly want to see if it was actually finished, too! No email, no post on my dash or anything trying to contact me if it was done so I have no idea where she is coming from.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Lol "legal ramifications" mmm hmmm

As far as I can see you did everything right. Let us know if she actually refunds you or actually manages to have a reasonable explanation, please.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Uhm wow that reaction is really something.

[kaliedosock.livejournal.com]

Wow. I'm shocked myself. Even when I fall into an art slump, I let my commissioners know that I'll be back in shape ASAP. There's no excuse for the rudeness too.

I want to see if she has anything to back up her claim, but I won't hold out hope.

Hope she pays you back.

[tornaderman.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's pretty nutty she replied like that. I really hope she refunds you, though the 'whenever I get money in my paypal' reply is a bit off-putting. Like, she'll refund you if she remembers when she gets the money, if she doesn't then oh well! Or maybe she'll refused because 'you don't deserve it.' I hope I'm wrong, but that's just how it came off to me. Especially with her reply.

:c what a nasty situation. Thanks for posting about this.

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

Wow. How totally rude. The empty legal threat is icing on the unprofessional cake.

I don't understand how she ignores you for a year and runs off with your money and somehow she's the victim. She has some stones to lecture you and say HOW DARE YOOOOOU. Like how do you justify that.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Jesus H. Christ. Unless she comes on here with alternative information and evidence, she's outright lying with that last note. There was absolutely no reason for her not to reply to you.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

Phew, thats a relief :3 You never know!

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Since this is about an unrelated person, I'm going to screen these posts to avoid any confusion.

[conigliomannaro.livejournal.com]

Idk, the reaction is so over the top (she actually mentions changing accounts because you harassed her) that I'm half confused as to what exactly she was thinking when she wrote that. The evidence you provided gives little room to discussion, so I honestly wonder what the hell is her deal. Did you by any chance talk about her to some people who may have reported what you said? Maybe a frustrated rant in which you only wanted to vent, and she took badly? I don't know, I really don't see why she would consider any of this as 'harassment', except for, maybe, the threats of reporting her behaviour everywhere. I know you were at a point in which you didn't know what else to do, but that would have irked me as well.

This said, beware well deserved. This person's attitude is really, really confusing.

[keaalu.livejournal.com]

With all the hyperbole the artist used in their PM, it sounds to me more like they're frustrated/annoyed/embarrassed at being caught out, and are trying to get the OP to feel guilty and back off.

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

I asked nothing more of her than a refund. Apparently that's 'embarassing' and harassment to her and she felt the need to run away without giving me anything. The notes were spaced out weeks and months and years apart, none of them got replies.

[conigliomannaro.livejournal.com]

I never said you handled it the wrong way; I was just wondering if there may have been a reason, be it pale or silly, for her to behave like that; sometimes misunderstandings happen. However, I didn't mean to say you had to be at fault, I was just very confused at her behaviour.

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

The whole ignoring thing is infuriating me so I apologize if I sounded snippy there. I am also baffled beyond belief as to why she would act that way. I mean, I even took the effort to ask via email in case DA was wigging out or something and loe and behold, no response either.

[mgsfriedchicken.livejournal.com]

:/ How sad. I inquired about a commission to her last year. Her attitude scares me.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

totally stinks =C...Hope she mans up as it were and provides you with the refund so you can stop "harassing" her as she puts it. *eye roll* Harassing her would be you leaving a message on her front page every day and include an insult to her character or something right?


Was going to suggest that you report her to the DevART A-B XD;

[nightmare-chan2.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's just me but... am I the only one confused how you ignoring her supposed messages humiliates her into LEAVING her account to make another? This is the first time I have ever, EVER thought that being ignored would evoke someone into creating a new account. It just brings up the question for me that if you have someone's money for a commission and you can't get a hold of them do you really think abandoning the account where the transaction started was a good business move???

Her logic is too much for me, as was her attitude to you. Beware well warranted.

[wolfy-chan.livejournal.com]

Looks like this person is back to 'ignoring' me. I honestly don't know what to do at this point.