Beware: Gideon

[jd blaze]

WHO: Gideon, AKA Gideon Hoss

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gideon/

WHAT: $75 plain commission

WHEN: well over a year ago. Files first AB report three months ago, got a response in under twenty four hours from him....and a PM saying he was headed to a convention a month ago....and then not a word since.

PROOF: last contact: http://i.imgur.com/qCqbT.jpg also, see http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/547604.html

EXPLAIN: I am dissapoint.
So, at this point, I leave it up to Gideon. If he wants to finish the commission, fine by me, he has a month. If he does not, I would like a refund.

Comments

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Eesh. I do hope you also sent this as a note to him too, although I know he has a tendency to pop up in his A_B posts anyway.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

It seems like a common occurence, where he pops up for damage control and says "Oh sorry Ill do it yadda yadda" then doesn't.

Gideon, please stop taking commissions if you cannot handle them like an adult, and FINISH THEM within a reasonable amount of time. Getting posted to A_B over and over again will only screw up your reputation, and constantly "saying sorry" won't change the fact that you're getting widely known as an unreliable artist.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

This is becoming a common thing to bring him here for any form of results. That's sad indeed. Hope you get something out of this mess. :\

I have one month

[gideon-hoss.livejournal.com]

Drop me a note on FA and I will make sure this gets resolved. I have stopped taking new commissions and just now doing AT con sketches that are completed at cons. I have been getting through my back log of work I have taken too long to get to and sadly it is taking a while even so. Contact me on FA and will get it done.

Re: I have one month

[kikai-saigono.livejournal.com]

Do you watch this community and wait to see when your name pops up so you can do damage control? Because you gave the same "I'm going to make this right" last time but you haven't really done it.

Re: I have one month

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Do you have a public list available for your prior customers to keep track of? You really should at this point.

Re: I have one month

[yamato-iouko.livejournal.com]

Uh, what gives you the right to dictate what he should do with the names of his customers who may want privacy?

Re: I have one month

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Neo's not dictating anything, just making a suggestion. For what it's worth I second it. A list is a good idea especially in the case of backlogs like this so that progress is visible. It's reassuring to customers, and if privacy is important to a customer then something like *private slot* instead of their name would be entirely viable.

Re: I have one month

[yamato-iouko.livejournal.com]

"You should" is not a suggestion as I understand it. "You should" is telling a person what to do. Suggestions are phrased "perhaps" and "maybe" and "it might be a good idea if". "You should" sounds like the person putting it up knows better, and I really think we should try to get the civility of this group back on track.

Re: I have one month

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

http://www.englishpage.com/modals/should.html
http://www.englishgrammarsecrets.com/should/menu.php

Issues of wording aside, I'd say that Neo does in fact know better because she has neither the backlog nor list of unhappy commissioners and history of this type of behaviour that Gideon has. Her comment was perfectly civil, and if anything it was yours which came off as a tad aggressive from a third party perspective.

Re: I have one month

[yamato-iouko.livejournal.com]

Your definitions have the meaning I was trying to portray, if I did not make that point well. Neo came off, to me, as a know-it-all who was trying to express an opinion that Gideon should do a thing without considering how his customers might feel for being revealed. I totally agree that Gideon has stuff to resolve regarding this group, I just don't want to see his commissioners dragged into the middle if they'd rather not be there, only involved if they chose to be. That was my point, and I rather floundered around at making it.

[fiawol.livejournal.com]

I'd actually have to echo Gideon: if you want to commission him, see him at a convention yourself, or find a friend you know who is going to a convention that Gideon will be at and get THEM to commission him for you. When the artist tells you "I'm not taking new commissions", take them at their word and don't try to talk them into squeezing you in. It never turns out good. Sadly, the only way to find out which artists you should NOT commission at home is through other commissioners complaining about not getting the work they've paid for. Eventually, the artist will stop getting new commission requests, and hopefully will make good on their old requests.

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

Well since this began over a year ago, maybe the artist was taking commissions then? I'm not sure though.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

"Eventually, the artist will stop getting new commission requests, and hopefully will make good on their old requests."

What's this hopefully business? If an artist has outstanding commissions, they shouldn't be taking on extra work until they are caught up.

[clockworkshadow.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Hopefully isn't a word you use in the business, people seem to forget that that's exactly what this is, a business contract. You can't say "hopefully you'll get your art done". If I went to Sears and they said "Hopefully you'll get these shoes you want" I'd ask for my money back.

No offense to Gideon, he's a nice guy, but this isn't a good way to do things.

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately several artists that are posted in this community don't see it that way. They continue to bury themselves in commission work, enabled by the customers who hope that this time they'll be in the select group to get their work on time.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

This is very true, however this sort of attitude of "the artist can walk all over the commissioner" doesn't help matters either, in fact, it's really enabling to the artists who scam constantly.

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

I quite agree with you, truth be told. It's why I refuse to commission artists who already owe other people excessive artwork. I find such an action rude and disrespectful to those who have been waiting and validating to the artists getting away with it. Even small things like icons cut into time that could be used on a full commission that has been waiting months. However, I think I'm getting a bit off topic for this thread.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I wholeheartedly agree with you on all fronts!

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I think you're making excuses for unacceptable business behavior. I'd say at this point do NOT commission the guy, not at home, not at convention, not ever. Because it sounds as though he takes them, goes home, then doesn't finish them.

In some realms, that's called "Stealing" or "Scamming". It's too bad it has to come out repeatedly at A_B, but it's completely clear the guy can't handle all the work he takes.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Oh I see. Clearly it's OUR fault he took our money and never did the work. And we've also heard from people here who did comission him at cons or who bought them on auctions. People aren't hounding him for comission, he went out looking for them, and then was too distracted with other things to bother actually doing them.

[fiawol.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's his fault for not doing the artwork, but it's US who are begging him to take commissions, he does not offer commission auctions or solicit them in journals, but he SHOULD NOT take new money for commissions no matter how much we beg him until he finishes his old commitments. Heck, it's easy as pie to commission him at a con, you put your money down, and the next day (sometimes later the same day) you have your artwork, but I've learned that if you DON'T get your art by the last day of the con, ask for your money back, and tell him you'll commission him again the next time you see him. It's sad when you have to go online to learn this about an artist, but personal recommendations are the best way to find out the best people to (and NOT to) commission.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

he does not offer commission auctions or solicit them in journals

Bullshit, I'm the winner of one of the Furbid auctions he put up more than five years ago and has never made good on. Likewise, he advertises for comission at cons. He's also constantly out shilling his paysite or his latest folio, which he somehow found time to do. He knows he has work he hasn't done, and yet continues to actively look for more. I'm sick and tired of fanboys like you making excuses for lazy artists who don't have the work ethic to do the jobs they've solicited.

[fiawol.livejournal.com]

5 years, yeah, a year or two after that was about when people started to complain about not getting artwork from him. Someone has to be the first, looks like you're one of the ones who didn't have the advantage of multiple complaints of non-delivery of artwork. Artists without work ethics is not just a furry fandom phenomenon, I'm at 7+ years (and counting) for (supposed) professional, non-furry artists who have taken money and not delivered anything. We don't take them to small-claims court and sue them because, quite frankly, we're still fans of their work (or at least we were before experiences like this soured us on their artwork), so we have to just chalk it up as a learning experience, and hopefully keep other people from falling into the same trap.
(PS. Don't try to commission anything from Matt Holmberg, AKA Matt David, AKA Drybone. Just sayin...)

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Please tone it down a bit. "Fanboys like you" is bordering on insult.

[yamato-iouko.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can totally see why some artists only see why A_B is a slam site.

Fanboys? Dude, it's not like fiawol did this thing to you, dial back the venom a little. We can get you're mad, and you're clearly justified in your reasons. He's not really even doing anything to defend Gideon, he's just saying not to commission the guy. It's not worth attacking every person who's not with you in attacking Gideon, you're only going to undermine A_B's legitimacy.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

"... but it's US who are begging him to take commissions, he does not offer commission auctions or solicit them in journals"

So basically, he's bowing to every single commission request he gets despite his backlog and constant forgetting of people? Then he should get out of the business. I can't see ANY artist, no matter how productive, get anything more than a few sketches done when they are constantly accepting new commissions like that. If he doesn't have the heart to say no, then he should raise his prices to the point where people won't commission him.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

...he could always say no or have it written on his profile that he is not available for commission.

The fact that he's backlogged and continues to take more work on top of what he already has is of no fault but his own, NOT the people who are making requests.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

I hate to break it to you, but you're now stuck in a cycle many people have been caught in for years. Everytime you complain about the work not being done in a public forum, he'll appear and pretend to be contrite and how he's going to finally start working on his backlog.

It's a lie. There may be a flurry of activity for a few days, and then he'll suddenly vanish again until the next time someone complains.

If you start badgering him constantly, you may get something, but it will be a half-assed job that's well below his normal skill done just to shut you up.

On the bright side, you're only out $75. There's a number of people who paid out hundreds of dollars for a comission from him back before he became known for this behavior.

[patchotter.livejournal.com]

I agree with the rest of your post, but $75 isn't really a bright side. That can be a lot of money for some people. It's not hundreds, sure, but to this particular commissioner there's a possibility that it might as well be.
I never buy commissions and I'd be devastated if I wasted $75 on being scammed. I guess it's all relative.

It is just terrible behavior on the whole though. Awful. :(

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Calling it a "bright side" was intended to be ironic.

[patchotter.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. :3 Tone not translating on the internet and all that, I suppose.

[featheredragon.livejournal.com]

I commissioned Gideon at MFF 2009 and recently got my money refunded because he was taking too long and was somewhat difficult to stay in contact with which made me uncomfortable waiting.

However, I do not think he is an ill to do person. I get the impression that he's just overwhelmed. He did admit to me he took on too many take home commissions and he also decided to not take any more--at least until he's able to cope. I'm not saying this completely excuses not getting work done or any failing to keep in contact or keep promises but I think it's been/is a learning experience for him to as an artist.

Also, while he didn't always respond or reply right away and while it did usually did take a little prompting, he would eventually reply. I do think it's true he is bad at procrastinating but I don't think it's necessarily on purpose.

I've been impressed by the fact that he always managed to be polite in his messages and in person. He also surprised me with a free quick sketch at MFF2011 of my character as a sort of apology for the delay. It wasn't something he had to do but I really appreciated the sentiment.

Afterwards, after more waiting he was still taking to long to reply so I did ask for a refund which he did give without hard feelings.

Anyways, I happen to know he has been on vacation since Further Confusion (not sure when he's supposed to come back though). Learned about it about two weeks ago when I contacted him for a refund. I'm sure this has affected his ability to reply to messages to some degree. I did suggest it would help if his customers if they knew how long roughly he would be away for.

I do admit that I have felt frustrated with Gideon on account of the sporadic nature of his communications. However, like I said, in the end, I think he is a well meaning person who just bit more than he could chew. And as I said, he was always very courteous in talking which was greatly appreciated.

While I can't speak for him, I'm sure he'll reply to you eventually if you keep reminding him (not every single day but say weekly if it's been too long) and I'm sure he'll work with you to get your issue resolved.

Whether you want, trust him enough, and are willing to wait for your work, that's really something you have to decide. Worst case, I'd say ask for a refund and that way Gideon doesn't feel hounded and you don't go crazy trying to figure out what's going on and when you're ever going to get your work. I think the best thing to do is just commission him for at-con commissions in the future.

Anyway, in my case, I'm glad I was able to resolve things with Gideon and I feel it was resolved on a mutually fairly good note for which I am also glad. :3

But yeah, I do sympathize with how you're feeling having been there myself. Best of luck!

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

So in short, if I want to avoid a situation like yours; having to " nag", hostile in AB post, constantly seeing "but he's a nice guy" excuses without seeing results, don't hire this artist. Got it.

[featheredragon.livejournal.com]

LoL, well, it's true I can be verbose. x3 (Plus, I like explaining back stories.)

I suppose I could have summed it up like you did. I just really try hard to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I think you'll be fine hiring him at cons; just no take homes.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Out of curiousity (it's been almost two months since the "I have one month" post), did he ever actually do the comission, or did he pull his usual trick of promising to get to it and then disappearing again as soon as the heat died down?

[jd blaze (from livejournal.com)]

Nope. It was one thing after another, from computers going bad to animals dying to just plain old ignoring a person on AIM.
The reasons he's giving are starting to feel like the boy who cried wolf here, I don't know what to believe.

[stormydragon.livejournal.com]

Sadly, that's what I expected was gonna happen. I just kinda wanted to make sure that if anyone else comes looking up here, they don't get the impression the issue was resolved. I'm going on five years of waiting now, and have given up ever getting anything. Just want to try and keep other people from making the same mistake.