Beware: Sashatanaka/Marilyn/Danielle and Terraformer/Jordan

[salty-dog.livejournal.com]

Im not really happy about having to go as far as posting here, but im not really sure what to do anymore with this situation. :c

WHO: Sasha_tanaka, Marilyn, Danielle Rogers and Terraformer, Jordan

WHERE:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sashatanaka/
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/terraformer/

WHAT: Sold an original piece of artwork via auction on FA in November 2011. Buyer paid via Paypal and was friendly. Artwork was shipped and confirmed delivered. January 2012, charge-back issued saying payment was not authorized and payment for the artwork was taken back as well as a case opened on Paypal. Buyer says they did not initiate charge-back. Submitted evidence to Paypal of valid transaction and proof of delivery. Weeks later got another email from Paypal saying charge-back went through. Called paypal via buyer's request and Paypal said that they are working with the credit card company to show that it was a valid transaction but will take 75-80 days before the credit card company will get back to Paypal. I gave the buyer two options with two weeks to do one of them, either send the original artwork back or pay me the money owed. Buyer says they don't have money to pay me the money they owe but they are getting a tax refund check and that they'll have the money on the 28th of February which is 6 days outside the two week time frame I gave.

WHEN:
November 1st, 2011 - Artwork bought and paid for.
November 8th, 2011 - Artwork Shipped.
November 12th, 2011 - Artwork delivered and confirmed via delivery confirmation/tracking.
January 24, 2012 - Email received from Paypal about buyer issuing chargeback and that transaction was not authorized. $55 taken out of my Paypal account.
Febuary 8th, 2012 - Chargeback authorized by Buyer's Paypal and Credit Card company + $20 fee for this on top of the $55 that was charged back. Paypal talking with buyer's Credit Card company but will take 75-80 days for any word from buyer's credit card company. Gave the buyer two options and two weeks to do one; either send the artwork back to me or pay me the money owed ($55).
Febuary 14th, 2012 - Buyer says they won't have money until 28th of Febuary which is 6 days after the two week deadline.


PROOF:
Last year (2011) at the end of October I did an auction on FurAffinity for the original artwork I did in traditional mediums (seen here: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4716757/) of a Cheshire Cat. The winning bidder was Terraformer (the boyfriend) and Sasha_tanaka (the girlfriend). I mainly spoke with the boyfriend via note but he was talking to me about the original artwork for his girlfriend and she was the one who would be sending me the money via paypal. This was back on November 1st of 2011. Here's a screenshot: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/CheshireCatBought.jpg

The final amount for the original was $50 + $5 for shipping, making a total of $55 to be sent to me via paypal. Great. All was good, got the payment and confirmed the shipping address. Here's a screenshot of this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/1.jpg

After that I created a label via paypal with Delivery confirmation service; screenshot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/2.jpg
Proof of delivery:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/ProofOfDelivery.jpg

Come January 24, 2012, I got this alarming email to which I responded promptly with the above screenshots, info and tracking information (showing the artwork had been delivered). Screenshot of the email: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/3.jpg

Here's my correspondence with the buyer and his girlfriend after I got that email:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/NotePart1.jpg

I waited for paypal to update after I gave them evidence of everything. Its been a few weeks but then I got an email today (Feb 8, 2012) with this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/4.jpg

and this in my paypal (with an additional $20 fee tacked on to the $55.):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/ChargebackDisputeFee.jpg

I noted Sasha_tanaka again about this. I called the Paypal number she gave me and Paypal said they have submitted all evidence of a valid transaction to her credit card company and that basically it will take 75-80 days before the Credit Card company will get back to them. While I was on the phone the representative was able to reverse the $20 fee but im still out the $55.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/NotePart2.jpg

I told her she has two options and initially one week (agreed to max of two weeks) to do one of them or posting everything up on Artists_Beware:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Ultimatum.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Ultimatum2.jpg

I got this note (Feb 14, 2012) saying she can't pay until after the deadline I gave her.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Update.jpg

Since she told me that she will not be able to pay and seems unwilling to send the artwork back by the deadline I gave her, I am now forced to take action - make a posting here to A_B.

At this point she has the original artwork for free and Im out $55 and the artwork. Im not really sure what to do at this point. I've been trying to give Sasha the benefit of the doubt but im getting to my wits end. I would just like to get the artwork back or the money im owed for the original artwork.

EDIT 2/16/2012
I received this note today:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/8.jpg


EDIT [2] 2/16/2012
She sent me an echeck via paypal a few minutes ago:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/Echeck.jpg
along with this note: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/9.jpg

EDIT [3] 2/17/2012
A journal that Terraformer posted about the situation:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/Part1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/Part2.jpg

and I received this note from Sasha;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/10.jpg
I never received the email she's referring to. I have posted everything I received and sent. 
I felt this was also relevant: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/salty_dog/Beware/Journal3.jpg 

Comments

[growly.livejournal.com]

Only way they couldn't afford to pay you back is because they spent the money they got back, which suggests they purposefully initiated the chargeback and knew full well what they were doing. That's really, really low. They are now banned from my FA, thanks for posting this warning, and I'm sad this happened. :(

[conigliomannaro.livejournal.com]

You're right, I was thinking the same. If they never meant the chargeback to happen, they would have the original 55 in their account from it, and would just have to send it back. This does seem fishy and very low, and I'm sorry for OP.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Agreeing w/ Growly and blocking as well. Beware well warranted. I hope she follows through with the funds.

[mekania.livejournal.com]

That does seem quite shady. I don't think paypal/credit card companies randomly chargeback without contacting the account holder even if they think a charge is suspicious.

However, is it possible that the $55 is still in limbo while paypal and the credit card company figure things out? Meaning neither you or your client has the funds yet? I would seriously get on the phone with paypal and see whats happening, don't wait for them. Also see if you can get paypal to give you the number to the credit card company and see what answers you can get from them.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

The first set of messages claims that their grandma told the bank to do a chargeback.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Well, I was going to believe a word she said to you, OP, but I don't. Simple fact is she admitted her bank was Chase. I know it has been a few years since my incident with Chase happened, but I can certainly tell you it doesn't go down the way she claims it does.

I had a card through Chase, and if/when shady items went through my account they called me to authorized the transaction. It was a simple "press 1" if you authorized this transaction, "press 2" if you did not.

I actually did have that card stolen and did have to issue a chargeback to get my money back. It didn't happen randomly. Chase gave me that automatic call first, and when I hit "2 for no", I got to talk to someone and we went over my transactions. Someone tried to charge $200 in NY city or something like that, and I live in Texas.

What I am saying in a round-about-way is that chargebacks are issued only by the account holder. It isn't a random thing done.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

agreeing with this, my dad uses chase and this is how it went when he once was being charged $100 out of the blue and it turns out someone SOMEHOW got his info. but he was able to decline and talk to someone about it.

[ariakitty.livejournal.com]

This is all really suspicious. If I were you I would ask for a post-dated check from the buyer kind of as a promise to pay. I don't think she understands/cares that this is theft.

Is there a way to file a paypal complaint on them? I mean, she claims not to have the money in the bank... But initially it was paid for with a credit card through paypal. You don't NEED money in the bank to pay with a credit card.

I totally don't buy the "I shared a paypal with my grandma" bit. If she was, then her Grandma would have known what "paypal" was on her credit card statement and not issued a charge back.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

Heck even my credit union called me about suspicious charges and paypal has done the same! And they were fixed promptly and so on within minutes. I'd call paypal, explain again what happened and then request a payment from her of $55 to her paypal.

Beware well noted. I'll be adding her to my block list along with him.

[merlin-the-wise.livejournal.com]

Echoing what everybody else said, there was a chargeback so they got the money yet so why are they making you wait until they get the money? Definitely something sleazy, there.

And that note they just sent you today... absolutely disgusting! How dare they try to paint themselves as a victim while threatening to withhold money that they owe you! And trying to make you delete this post because... trying to get the money they took from you is exploitation? Ugh! Beware well-warranted! I'm very sorry you had to go through this.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

Oh wow.
She probably doesn't realize you're *not allowed* to take stuff off A_B
"You BETTER take it off!" It sounds like a threat! Bahaha.
Beware well warranted, thank you for posting this. I've seen her around and I'm glad I saw this first before encountering her more personally.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

If she doesn't care what anyone here says, why does she want it removed so badly?

Regardless, posts on AB can't be deleted. So yeah.

[kashmere-horse.livejournal.com]

Woah sorry this happened to you!

The last note is pretty rude too o_o
I hope she's still going to give you your money even if she realizes that it cannot be deleted >>'

[nightmare-chan2.livejournal.com]

That note from her today just strengthens the beware for me. Especially when her boyfriend encouraged her to keep the money - glad you put a beware on him as well.

Sorry you're going through and I hope it all calms down. I have to agree with Kayla that if it didn't matter to her then she wouldn't be so persistent to get it removed. I think it's a good thing she doesn't want to purchase artwork anymore considering that a lot of people will be wary of her after a post like this and a note like that!

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Well she went out of the frying pan and into the boiling hot lava with that one. Especially because after her last journal AND this note stating she was going to shut off her PP because she wasn't going to BUY anymore - why be upset you're here? You're no longer going to be a consumer in this market, right? Then it shouldn't matter if you're here.

Also, posts in this comm are not to be deleted so she's basically shit up a creek.

You all are mis judging Sasha

[lightpawz.livejournal.com]

I am a fursuit maker who has been commissioned by Sasha. She paid promptly with no problems. I also have stayed in touch with her since then and she is a kind and honest person.

I honestly do not think she did anything purposely and anyone who accepts PayPal being a furry is taking a risk of payment interruption.

Re: You all are mis judging Sasha

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

She may have handled business better in the past but those screenshots pretty much tell the tale for this transaction.
It didn't happen for you, but it happened for the OP, and Sasha handled it poorly.

[copper-curls.livejournal.com]

Up to today, I was thinking the commissioner maybe wasn't as well organized as she might be, but that last note - particularly the bit wherein she contradicts what she wrote in one of her earlier notes, that she and her grandma had a joint account. Beware well-warranted. If ever I find myself doing commission work, I'll remember not to accept anything from either of them.

Re: Live Journals - Harassment Policy

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

Uh oh, internet police.
I don't see this as harassment at all. ALL OF THIS could have been avoided by sending the piece back. $55 is a lot, but $1.50 is just... way reasonable.
You also seem to be ignoring the way Sasha is threatening Carowyn with chargebacks on money that rightfully belongs to the OP.

Edit: Okeydoke this is clearly not gonna go anywhere so I'll stop, haha. I'm gonna avoid this side dish of drama now.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

To Sasha: Your language is really appalling to this artist. Claiming that she has not kept her word when you would have broken deadline anyway? You should have just mailed the piece back in the first place.

Secondly, if anyone is harassing you over this entry, like I told your friend lightpawz - my email is xaidezignz@gmail.com. Give me names and screencaps. I'll handle it.

To Salty_dog: Do you want me to mark this as resolved now

[salty-dog.livejournal.com]

No it is not resolved yet. Since the money is still pending (echeck). I'll update once the echeck clears. Thank you.

[kalika-tybera.livejournal.com]

That most recent note is just awful, I can't believe she's threatening you and making herself out to be a victim. Does she not realize that you live off of your art income? You shouldn't have to wait 3+ weeks to be paid back the money you should have already had, it's not your problem so you shouldn't have to pay for it in losses.

You've got no money and now no art, so she's essentially stolen from you, she has no right to threaten to not pay you at all just because of a well-warranted beware.
She's been added to my blacklist and banned from my FA.

[pekingfoxie.livejournal.com]

The edits, holy cow. Terraformer´s journal is completely unnecessary and they are all (Sasha, Terraformer and the fursuit maker) making this whole thing a lot bigger and more difficult than it actually is. They could have handled this calmly and can only blame themselves for drama and stress.

I will never understand that how some people can think that coming here to "defend" the person being posted about or posting journals to FA and talking about the person´s problems (no income, being pregnant etc.) will help anything or anyone? How are the person´s problems even relevant? OP´s screenshots prove that this transaction was suspicious. Sasha bought a product and owes the artist money. If Sasha has no income and cannot really afford to buy art then she shouldn´t buy art. Nobody can blame the artist for that. And sigh, AB is not a drama community and we are not here to bash people. It´s frustrating that so many people view us that way because we sided with the artist and "didn´t give a shit about Sasha or her troubles". The only thing that matters here is that Sasha owes the artist money. The artist is not being a bad guy by demanding the payment that belongs to her. If Sasha refuses to pay she is stealing and that just isn´t right even if she had no income or was pregnant or whatever.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

...Wow, really?

Why is it always the entire A_B community that gets flak when people disagree with a posting? Everything's always fine and dandy until something someone doesn't agree with pops up.

Forget about how many people it's prevented from doing business with scammers and how much of a useful resource it can be and only look at it as a place to ruin people's reputations and businesses. How many people have come in here, admitted they were wrong, fixed the problem and have had things get better for them because they've shown the maturity and initiative to make things right on their ends without throwing a temper tantrum, posting journals and being whiny.

Really, some people need to think about how their own actions make them look, because if Sasha had come in here, calmly explained their side of the story and done what was right by the artist (paying up what was owed or resending the original), no one would have had anything really negative to say about them. But no. Nope! Can't do that!

I... Honestly can't think of anything intelligent to say after that. Like, really. I'm really a mix of confused, angry and somewhat amused. o.O

Edit: Wow, really? Some of the comments on that journal are downright nasty. Like the cute little string from CaseyLupus.

[(Anonymous)]

Amen.

Also, even if someone had had a good experience with Sasha (the fursuit maker who came here to defend Sasha) it does not undo Carowyn´s bad experience with her...

I once commissioned an artist who was later posted about to AB twice. In the comments there were many people who stepped forward and reported that they had been scammed by said artist too. I was surprised to see this because my experience with the artist had been pleasant. They were friendly, produced the art in less than a week and the quality was nice. But my good experience does not undo the fact that so many others had had a bad experience with said artist.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

LJ user lightpawz is now permanently banned from Artists Beware for going back and deleting comments. Screencap featuring most of the deleted comments. (http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3530/artprintbewareupdatecom.png) Unfortunately it does not include the threat of reporting the community to LJ Abuse for harassment of himself and Sasha.

[copper-curls.livejournal.com]

Um... this party wants just this entry deleted? Or the entire community? I realize that either way it's not going to happen, but... wow. I really can't think of anything to add to that; there's some serious misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of a_b if that's what they're looking for.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Well! Goodness gracious.

Here's the thing.

It should have gone like this: "Man, I'm sorry I screwed up, I'll send you back the art until I can properly pay for it again. *sends art immediately, possibly buys it back later, AB entry is marked resolved and everyone forgets about it*"

Instead we have, let's see... Threats about reporting AB, threats from Sasha about 'not fucking with her' (what is this, middle school? Are you going to track the OP down and beat her up?), hissy fits and tantrums from not only Sasha and Terraformer, but a random whiteknight they felt the need to send to fight for them, constant demands to immediately delete the entry before it's actually resolved, constant 'I don't care what they think!!''s except they clearly do if they're this angry and foaming at the mouth about it, lying (the grandmother joint account thing), and attack journals.

Somehow, this was the intelligent, mature thing to do. Yes. I hope that works out for you two.

The sad thing is, I can believe the whole thing was a mistake. I don't think they were trying to steal from anybody, I just think they didn't take the whole issue very seriously until it came up here. That was bad of them. But it's not the original issue itself that matters now and has ruined their reputation, it's entirely their own reactions and constant threats and attempts to bully the OP into removing the post. They themselves have done far more to hurt themselves than a single beware like this ever could have on its own. I know I wouldn't have even remembered it a month from now normally, but I sure will now!

But denial is a powerful thing.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I also want to add if you two read this, it's not too late to turn this around. You don't HAVE to keep behaving this way. You can still fix it by backing off, apologizing for your behaviour, and just leaving it alone.

I mean, I doubt you will, but if you wanted an actual solution, you could. People rarely have the strength to do it, but it is an option. You can also keep doing what you're doing and ending up on people's blacklists if you prefer, though!

[keaalu.livejournal.com]

I'll never understand why people would rather post comprehensive rants from a distance, on a site where they'll quickly be lost or deleted, instead of come here and dispute it, where EVERYONE can see and there's an actual record of the argument.

If they're so insistent that the artist lied, why not come here and say so?
I'm not saying it's the case here, but it wouldn't be the first time the person the beware is about came in, calmly stated their point, and the OP turned out to have just been lying or bearing a grudge of some kind.

The other thing I don't understand is the way Sasha keeps saying the OP will come out worst because "Paypal knows what you did!"

...What DID the OP do? Apart from try and get their (rightfully earned) money back after an accidental/fraudulent chargeback?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Sasha seems to consider it 'exploitation' (I think she means extortion) to have this AB up here while the OP waits on her money. I think in her head it's 'She wrote this to get money out of me!' as if she somehow didn't actually owe that money. To be honest, I'm pretty sure she's just been riding entirely on her emotions over this post and hasn't actually thought anything through.

Anyway, she might think paypal will side against the OP over said 'extortion'. What I'm confused about is why do they keep bringing up Paypal and how it hates furries and is terrible if it was the bank that did the chargeback?

[mekania.livejournal.com]

WHAT. They are taking what to the authorities? I hope all those comments about how they were going to file another chargeback AND keep the art because that's theft.

There are a few things they're right about:
1. they never said the grandma and sasha had a joint paypal account, it has always been a credit card charge back not a paypal dispute

2. you did in fact get an email from paypal on the 24th giving a 10 day period for you to submit evidence. Neither of you have proved that you did/did not submit evidence.

Things that don't make sense to me:
1. they stated that the joint account was closed and they no longer have account with Chase, why would they now be doing charge backs to 3 month old transactions on a closed account?

2. In my experience, when there is an investigation going on and the bank sides in your favor they lend you the money through the duration of the investigation and if you win you keep the money, if you're lying they take it back. But this still begs the question, if the account is closed where is the money going? This is a bank/credit card dispute, it would not go back in your paypal.

3. Was your account ever frozen because of this? In that ever so charming journal rant the guy says all the artists accounts were frozen because of this and you never thanked Sasha for deigning to fix a problem she caused (and regardless of her Grandma doing this, it's her fault). It doesn't make sense that paypal would freeze accounts over a charge back, usually they just take the money.

4. Which brings me to: this is her fault. She keeps blaming the bank when she should have informed her Grandma of the charges she was making on an account that was not her sole responsibility. TBH, I don't understand why someone with a joint account would not go "hey, maybe those were by the other person I share this account with" before flagging the charges.

The initial situation could be taken as a big misunderstanding (I'm still skeptical) but their subsequent deplorable behavior has made this beware well worth it for the both of them. They need to realize that that list of his about the reasons they can take action is completely bogus. Extortion? Really?

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

Actually, Paypal itself acknowledges Point #2 under your list of things the commissioner is right about.

In screencap Beware/4.jpg the very first line states that Paypal is using the information that the OP sent them to dispute the charge back, however, the credit card company already issued a reversal of charges that debited the account and resulted in the additional fee.

[trentxandrew.livejournal.com]

My brain is still hung-up on the "authorities" part of her last note. I can't tell if she means actual police, FA authorities or AB authorities. I mean, either way it's not going to end in her favor but that "threat" is just too annoyingly... bizarre? Actually this while situation is. It could've been solved so easily.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Considering the journals made by Sasha's SO and their fursuit making friend lightpawz (who made a big mess of a very quiet LJ post), they're 'disgusted with' this community, and are supposedly filing harassment against A_B. We're not the authorities they're coming to.

So I am assuming, since Sasha and Co feel that Sasha is being extorted- they're going to the Police, and possibly taking the issue up with Paypal.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Sasha posted an apology journal. While it's still a bit inappropriate because there's still whining about how you should've waited until the payment deadline to post them here (which makes NO sense considering at this point she'd said you weren't getting payment by the deadline anyway) it is the most mature thing to come from that side.

Of course that doesn't erase the tantrum she and her fiance threw over an artist just wanting what they're owed, but it's a start.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Also the assumption that all the OP needed to do was just wait like everyone else. Which I think is an awful thing to tell the artist to do when they have neither the money, nor the art, meaning no collateral insurance that things wouldn't go sour any further than they did.

I'm glad to see her apologize, if only the rest of them would follow her example.