Advice: Ask for refund?

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

EDIT (4/15/2012): Edited the times I stated to make more sense. 
I've also decided to ask the artist about a few fixes. If the artist refuses, I'll just take it and go. I'm not going to refund on the final icon, because it was a gift for my friend who really wanted one (I was only going to ask for a refund of mine, sorry if that should have been stated earlier). 

(I'm going to be keeping names to myself in this because I'm merely asking for advice, not posting a full beware). 

A little under a month ago I commissioned an artist for 3 animated icons: one for me and my boyfriend, and one for my friend. My friend didn't have a reference of her new fursona at the time, but I sent one to her once she posted it (was after I paid). 

Here's the few notes we exchanged about it: http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm177/Loveless_Neko3/firstnotes.png

The icons were 7$ each, so in total I paid 21$. Here are the paypal records here: http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm177/Loveless_Neko3/payment.png

And then I waited. I saw that she was kind of quiet for a few days after I had paid her, but then began posting stuff again. There were a few icons, so I just thought "oh, icons she owes, I hope she gets to mine next!" About a week after I commissioned her I finally noticed that she had a list for icons specifically in the bottom of her journal, and I was #2. I was hopeful they would be done soon. Then she started posting icons that were not for the person ahead of me in the list. They seemed to be from people whom commissioned her a few days or a few weeks later than from when I commissioned her. I kind of shrugged that off and waited to see if she'd do mine after the person in front of me. A little over a week ago, the person in front got both of their icons done, so I figured mine were up next. I waited the following week and she did post icons: But icons that either seemed to be gifts or other commissions. 

Finally, I decided to note her, and after I did she decided to post my icons: 
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm177/Loveless_Neko3/postdateproof.png

I would be excited but...These icons were not what I was expecting. The quality is quite a considerable amount lower than most of her other recent icons, and these look quite rushed as well. The animating is also a little less of quality than her usual stuff, and on my boyfriend's icon a frame seems to be out of place. 

Here are links of them animated: 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41364521/icon26-1.gif
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41364521/icon26-2.gif

Not only that, but my boyfriend seems to really be erked with the coloring (which I agree is fairly sloppy compared to her other things), and there are some aspects about the characters that are wrong (like the left ear on my fursona is suppose to fold forward, small things but kind of hard to miss for me).

The way she replied to my note also rubbed me the wrong way: 
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm177/Loveless_Neko3/responsedate.png

She seemed to want to make it sound like I was hassling her or something...But this is the first time I've contacted her through this whole thing. She also posted them only after I made that note (which is why I underlined times in all these), and I did note her my friend's reff way back in the beginning. 

I'm awfully displeased with her service and the finished product. I will not be commissioning her again, but I'm wondering if I'm in the clear to ask for a refund? I don't want to make the artist upset with me, but I'm just wondering if anyone here thinks it's justified? If you think I'm over-reacting, that's a fine answer two. I'm just torn between sucking it up with something I don't feel I paid for, or being stubborn and asking for my money back.

Comments

[gargoylekitty.livejournal.com]

Might be wrong, but I think asking for a refund is a bit much. She did produce the work* and most of the stuff you mention about the time it took, which doesn't seem too horribly long unless she said it could be done sooner, seems pure speculation(ex. "...seemed to be...") and exaggerated(re: waiting a few more weeks. A month has four weeks. If she went quiet and then started posting and then you waited a few weeks... yet, it hasn't even been a full month).

* Beside that though, have you even voiced any of these concerns to the artist? I think it best to give her a chance to fix the matter.

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's why I thought perhaps a refund was a bit too much.
I wouldn't normally be concerned about the icon having taken a month, it was mostly that she was doing quite a few other icons that didn't seem to be in her commission list.

I've also updated the times to be more accurate and precise, I'm awful at determining time spans.

I was afraid to at first because the artist seemed quite peeved with me, but I'm going to ask anyways.

[shiftergoddess.livejournal.com]

After a quick search and look see through her gallery, i will agree that the quality of your icons in comparison to her previous ones is pretty obvious. They do looked rushed.
I'm not entirely sure you can ask for a refund of the two icons you've got. If she hasn't started the third icon you can probably ask for a refund of the $7 for that one since you're displeased with the two you've already received.

Not a pleasant situation but i do think it's a little odd that you had to prod her to get the icons and they looked rather rushed. :|

Edit to add: it does look like there's an extra frame for you boyfriend's icon. Unless she was going for an odd looking ear twitch?

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm going to ask for a refund. The final one I really won't be, since it's a gift for my friend and she really wants it.

I'm deciding to prod at her a little, thanks for the advice!

And yeah, he noticed that too. I'm not sure what that's really for, it seems more awkward than anything to me (I think it may have been an accidentally added frame).

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Also agreeing with the others, asking for a refund is a bit much. I'd call it off as a loss and move on. Sometimes artists don't always deliver top quality art. It's unfortunate but true, and the fact that it was barely off of their normal work isn't that big of a deal IMO.

I'm not sure if they did the 3rd icon you paid for, if not that is refundable. but not the two already produced. But that's only my opinion.

Edit: Also chiming in with possibly asking the artist to fix the issue. I know the commissions were cheap but if they genuinely messed up something you requested or color issues then they could be obligated to fix it? But also agreeing with the buyers remorse, your sorta out of luck if you don't like the final product.

Also your exaggerated time span leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

The advice is right, she did give me the product so there really isn't means for a refund.

They haven't done the 3rd icon yet, but its a gift for my friend and she really wants one, so I won't be asking a refund on that one.

Well I'm going to ask (I was afraid to ask at the time because the artist seemed upset, at least from me view) but I'm doubtful.

And I'm sorry, I'm horrible at determining time spans. I've edited it to make the time more precise and correct.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry you felt the results were unpleasant but I'm sensing a bit of buyer's remorse here. Have you asked her to fix this issue? I do see the extra frame issue but that's such an easy fix.

The turnaround time was less than a month...from the dates i the evidence the deal started the 18th of march and ended the 15th of April. That's not *that* long a wait for something animated that is not done from a template. Not working in order is not a mark of a bad artist if she didn't keep you waiting forever--4 weeks is not that long. It is certainly not worthy of the description of the passage of time you gave.

I also looked up the artist in question on FA (I searched "double icon" and it was the first thing to pop up) I really didn't think that the coloring was different than her norm--this one is lit on a sunny day outside so isn't as detailed as the ones with several light-sources. I didn't think it was that messy compared to her normal work.

I think asking for a full-refund would be over-the-top. For a $7 dollar icon drawn from scratch with less than a 4 week turn-around-time I feel you got what you paid for.

[linksage.livejournal.com]

Seconding this.

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

I was afraid to ask at the time because the artist seemed upset with me. I'm also doubtful about a fix, because I saw another person whom commissioned an icon, and asked if they could made a 200x200 size. The artist said no, so I'm doubtful.

I wouldn't have been as bothered by it taking a month if it wasn't for all of the other icons she was doing in that month's time that weren't on her icon commission list. It just bothered me. I also edited the times to make more sense and to be more precise. I'm awful at estimating time spans.

It may just look somewhat messier because it's a larger size than most of the other icons, but I still feel they were rushed (that's merely my opinion, though).

I'm not going to ask for a refund, but hopefully she'll be up for some fixes. If not, then I'll just take it and go.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Why can't you ask for fixes?

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

I was afraid to ask for fixes at the time because the artist seemed upset with me. I've decided to ask them now, but I'm doubtful.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

I'd ask her if she could at least correct the ears changing color on some frames because that should be simple enough to do. I also wonder why the ears even change color at all; they seem to move like symbols so it's making me think it was tweened.

To be fair though I've had colors messed with publishing in flash. Usually it's because I had some sort of transparency in a symbol or something. If the artist is using flash the program can get fickle on publishing.

[linksage.livejournal.com]

I assumed the artist was trying to show a shadow being cast during the movement; although it should have been an animated shadow moving down in that case--but you're right, it's a simply fix, and if it was something they were trying that just didn't work out quite right I wouldn't think they'd mind changing it.

Adding the fold to the ear however would be a bit of a pain at this point, but if it was something that was clearly a part of the character (and not easily mistaken for posing in whatever ref was given), they might be willing to fix that as well. It's worth it to ask, at least.

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think maybe the artist was using photoshop, but I'll ask about that, thanks!

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

It's not even necessarily a flash issue, but a .gif issue. It doesn't utilize the full spectrum of colors and will often ruin images because of it. :c

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

imho a month is not long to wait for art at all and I agree with those saying you should get a refund for the third icon you DON'T have yet. The fix for the ear is easy. I'd suggest just asking for that and letting the rest go

Editing to add: I think it's important to consider that skipping around the list is a normal thing for artists to do. I do it often to get the stuff that's easiest out of the way. I agree that the work you got wasn't very good, that's the artist's fault

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

It wasn't the month thing, it was mostly the other art posted that wasn't on the list. And I can understand that, but most of the icons she posted weren't ever posted on her icon list. I personally think if you're working from a numbered list, you should work down that numbered list so people don't have different time-waiting spans.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I checked out the original submission. I do think it's a little unfair to comment how much you love it, ask for no changes, plus lie that you think the animation is nice and then turn around and post this, even though it's not a full beware. While I understand you weren't sure how the artist would take it, it's still a good idea to at least give them the chance to fix anything missed.

Making mistakes doesn't always mean the artist is bad. I'm a bit forgetful when it comes to things I don't draw often, even if it's on the ref. A good example is glasses. I almost always forget them, but if you just let me know I'd add them straight away.

*I may have missed if you actually asked the artist for fixes, forgive me if so.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything that wuvvumsoc and sbneko said.

I want to add that I don't see anywhere where the artist was upset with you (short, but nothing that would indicate to me that they're upset). You're pushing your own uneasiness onto the situation, when you should have just been honest with them.

If you write them now and they're upset, they'll have good reason to be. :|

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I -can- see why they thought the artist was upset, but I think it's more due to how they write. Checking their page, they just have a blunt way of speaking, almost emotionless? It gives me the impression that their first language isn't English, but I could be completely wrong!

But yes, I could see being put off by that reply.

[theblackdragon.livejournal.com]

No offense, but nowhere on your ref sheet (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5294085) you provided to the artist in question does it specifically state _that_ ear is to always be folded forward/downward -- to be honest, it just looks like an example of how her stripes look on the back of the ear. If it's truly that important to you that _that_ ear be positioned a certain way (to the point where you're considering asking for a refund, even), you may want to spell it out on your ref sheet so that no one else takes liberties you don't want them to take.

That said, i'm not seeing the missing frame in your boyfriend's icon...? It's not a smooth animation, but twitches aren't smooth actions to begin with... or have I missed the actual problem somehow?

[linksage.livejournal.com]

On a somewhat amusing note, it does seem a bit odd to specify that she had 34 Ds but not mention the ear. <_<

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I think everyone said what needed to be said, but I'll just say this: For all future commissions that you buy, make sure to let an artist know of any problems immediately. Most of us will be happy to do any changes/ fixes that need to be done in order to make customers happy. Saying how much you loved an image and then turning around to say how much you're dissatisfied is the best way to really make someone upset with you. You're not even giving the artist a chance to fix the issue.

Also, with small details like hair facing a certain direction and ears always being flopped? Make sure the artist knows, especially if these are going to be issues that makes you want a refund. =\ I rarely draw hair on my own characters the same way twice, so as an artist, I am liable to not follow a ref sheet's hair style to a T unless the client specifies.

[tunavoice.livejournal.com]

I'm in agreement with SBNeko here. It IS unfair to the artist that you would post this behind their back, regardless of whether or not it's a full beware. It would have been better if you told them about the issues with your icon immediately and were straightforward. A_B is public and they could see this post, thus leading to issues that could have been prevented.

You should never be afraid to bring up issues/fixes with an artist- the only thing is you should always do it politely, and in a reasonable time frame. Most artists will be happy to make their fixes and see it as a mistake on their part! I can't tell you in the last ten commissions I've got how many fixes I had to make that were totally my fault. The commissioner said politely right away, "Hey, you forgot this!" and I'd fix it in a jiffy. I even forgot an obvious marking on a commission, and the commissioner and I got a laugh out of my forgetfulness. It's really not a bad thing if you bring it up calmly.

If the artist turns out to be upset (to me it doesn't seem they are) then try to be calm and polite throughout the transaction no matter what. Artists will always remember pleasant and understanding commissioners. :)

Pardon if any of my typing/writing is off, it's early.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

It's happened before where I forgot to sketch in the glasses, they reminded me so I'd get it done while inking, forgot again! It's a running joke between me and a repeat commissioner since I usually forget his glasses almost every time. But I certainly add them straight away as soon as one of us remembers.

[werewolfofwater.livejournal.com]

She did the work and you didn’t even ask her to change anything, so she doesn’t owe you a refund at all. Honestly I don’t see anything the artist did wrong here. Maybe it’s a bit lower quality, but you told her how much you loved it, so why should she think you don’t?