Horrible commissioning experience

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

Edit: I can understand that I over did it with too much info...so... gonna try to remove a lot of it to make it more clear ._.; I did want to include my own mistakes to make this a bit more fair and understanding. Sadly, it also seems that without the stuff that happened in journals, it just makes it seem like I'm a total jerk @_@; I cut it down to mainly where I had the main issue. If this is STILL too much please tell me!

Also, to clarify, for those who saw the original cap on what I had asked for, it was a discussion on the commission's subject and such, rather than directly what I wanted. Given the subject and a few other things, I wanted to make sure the artist was up to doing certain things in general. I really wish I had recapped things though...

Who: Originally EmotionalMasochism, now Toxic-0verdose on Deviantart.

Where: Deviantart.com, at http://toxic-0verdose.deviantart.com

What: This is where it gets risque. I asked for three commission sketches that asked for the same concept but asked if I could use their artist's characters.

Part of the problem is I never did try to clarify everything 100% in one cleaned up note, but, it was an oversight since I thought they understood it quite clearly enough.

When: We agreed on the commissions on August 17th, I paid the 18th, then, when she specified she couldn't do the original because of my character, I changed it on December 2nd. Then we fell into an argument on the 1st of January. Her sister brings it up again on the 5th of January after neither the artist nor I talked to each other... Which is where it went really bad. She finally finished June 16th.

Proof: http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/2.jpg Showing the amount paid, and how many sketches there were to be.

Explain: To avoid any further drama, I'm mainly going to link to the screen caps of notes and the conversation I saved. The problem I have really is just the attitude they had with dealing with the situation. They ok'd everything, but then decided to change parts of the commission after I already paid and I had to change the commission from what I wanted original to something else to fit their needs. I only changed it once for myself after paying for it, but after trying to reword the commission concepts again. 

I have to admit, this is my messiest explanation for a commission, and I do jump around a bit. But they never asked for clarification after I was done or asked me to reword it then. They also ok'd something with their characters but after doing so told me specifically that "It's their characters" to when I wanted something changed (due to it conflicting with what I asked for), things they did not bring up before :/ I understand the character is their property but not giving what the commission asked for and telling them no left me with quite a sting, as well as something I didn't ask for, and thus, didn't pay for.

This is going to be quite a few screenshots, so be prepared:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/3.jpg This is the note I had after a disagreement on a journal(which I can not find due to the de-activation of her original account). I was upset because I kept stressing a higher number than 2(I thought it was 4 before, but I sent her a note showing it was 3 before this one).

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/4.jpg I overreacted a bit on this. With all the "support" talk, it has to do with the reference to the many times I was trying to help the person coup with dealing with the other commissions and how the commissions were originally a "please commission me because I am low on money and need it for understandable needs". 

And this is where the real problem starts. http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/5.jpg her sister(who I had no clue was her real sister at all) started being aggressive after the whole problem was over. 

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/6.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/7.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/8.jpg

And this is where it really goes down hill: http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/9.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/10.jpg  I was able to salavage the "sorry" over the original main cause of the incident: http://comments.deviantart.com/1/277266217/2350088985 I over reacted and threatened her with posting up about this here, but, obviously because of me actually saying it, I never did.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/11.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/13.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/14.jpg Just a small blurt in between all the drama. I'm not 100% sure if this is necessary, but whatever.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/15.jpg they're right about that. I don't have the original ref (it's pretty horrible), at which point they probably should of threw my money back at me or waited for a better reference(Which I said I would work on, and I did at least finish something quick to help out with the weak ref I gave before). Admitly, I probably should of done the same.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/16.jpg (keep in mind this is my note sent rather than a reply to mine sent from her) I was trying to state a complaint over how one thing looked because I figure I might as well try to get one thing right even if most people would ask for a redo all together over what I got. I personally just wanted it to end at that point, even if I got what I did...

And this was the response: http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/17.jpg as well as my response. I was very upset over even the lack of acknowledging something was off.

All in all, the point is merely to warn you about my experience. It's not something I wish for anyone else to deal with. I would try to ask for her to redo my commissions, but as I said before, I just wanted to end it. I have also been blocked by the person on DA after the stream incident, even though their scrap account has remained unblocked to me. For the sake of not causing more drama, I do not plan on commenting or noting on there ._.; Not unless some one has a brillant way to make her understand about the condition of the sketches.

I tried to contact her via an alternate method. Honestly, I shouldn't of bothered with this, knowing full well of their attitude.

Only kept a few in here to make this less messy.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/artistsbeware2.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/ab6.jpg

Sadly, there are also parts that are left out due to the fact that I can not recover parts of the conversation that was left on the original account in her journals.

I should also stress that one should check out her Terms of Service journal before commissioning: http://toxic-0verdose.deviantart.com/journal/ToS-303537342

This is also a response to a commissioner on her scrapbook account: http://toxic-scrapyard.deviantart.com/art/Commish-Sketch-292380919 I would also like to note the quality of this unfinished sketch to my own "finished" piece.

Lastly, one last thing that upset me is that it took over nine months for the commissions to be finished, and in between these, she had countless streams, maybe one dedicated to finishing commissions. This is a quick cap of a few of them in her journal: http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l310/BaneTK/Toxicproblem/joinmes.jpg

Just to quickly recap, this is more of a warning than anything. At this point, I don't believe there is anything I can do get something closer to what I wanted.

Comments

[tunavoice.livejournal.com]

Her attitude in the stream... good god. Capslock and yelling galore.
And they're 18 years old?! They REALLY should know better. Beware well warranted.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

This is an absolute trainwreck, and I tried my very best to follow along. I see a commissioner who can't seem to make up their mind on what they want and give concrete answers. Then there's an artist who involves outside parties in their business transactions.

The both of you were very much wrong. I'll admit I couldn't read the stream chat, but if it is anything like the notes, I get the idea of what was going on.

You should have taken your refund when the artist was done. Your sketches look bad because they already made it more than clear that they didn't want any more to do with you.

Some may disagree with me, but I see the artist as the "less wrong" party in this whole circus.

[tunavoice.livejournal.com]

You should have taken your refund when the artist was done. Your sketches look bad because they already made it more than clear that they didn't want any more to do with you.

THIS this this. I agree so much even if the artist displayed a really awful attitude. I can say they had a reason to display it, but it was still unacceptable for them to go off on the commissioner like that.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Oh without a doubt. The best course of action for the artist would have been to cut ties immediately and issue a refund. But the fact that the OP went into the artist's stream to drag it out just seriously creeps me out for some reason.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

To be quite honest, I couldn't even read most of what was here. Both the OP and artist's responses were giving me a headache. This really does seem like a situation were the fault is on both sides.

[deejthistle.livejournal.com]

Some may disagree with me, but I see the artist as the "less wrong" party in this whole circus.

I agree. I think the clincher for me was confronting the artist in her stream. The OP knew (given the dA notes) that this artist has some trouble with professionalism/her temper, so putting her on the spot by prodding her in front of her audience/customers is in extremely poor taste, IMO.

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

On a business level though, can you honestly say that it's a good idea to do a rush job because of your distaste with some one?

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

You should condense this down to "important" or "relevant events". A lot of this stuff is unnecessary and hard to follow. I can hardly make heads or tails of whats even really going on, outside of a lot of drama on both ends

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Also - OP you are ridiculously unclear about what it was you wanted.

Every note you sent is riddled with emoticons and rambling about your
interests, and less about what actual image you are looking to get. You need to be clear and concise when you commission, because going back and forth the way you did will get these exact same results. It's very confusing to read your notes and grasp what you were going for. And on top of that, you admit you don't have very good references.

It's a pity the artist became so angry with you and lashed out, but I can see where her frustration began and why. I personally would have never taken your commission, or had refunded you right off the bat. It's best to just let this one go and try not to be so overly descriptive next time. Try to give the artist a good clear vision to work with, give them good references and don't confront them in a public stage like livestream. Keeping it professional and to notes would be best.

Your behavior had a lot to do with how this turned out, I think. It'd be a good idea to listen to whatever advice you get here.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

Feel free to ignore this advice if you wish.

1. It really does make it so much easier on the artist to have all the information in one or two notes, not 40 (really?!) Fandom artists make so little hourly as it is, it's quite unreasonable to expect them to dig through that many notes on top of that. I think part of her frustration with you was that you were costing her a lot of time, and time is money. Your indecision over what you wanted literally ate up her time and cost her money.

2. When doing a business transaction and even moreso, when having an argument with someone... cut the stupid emotes. I'm sorry but all the owo's and /D's or whatever you were using just muddy the waters. I could understand using a couple here and there, I often use a few smilies myself, but the sheer amount of them make you seem not only unprofessional (of course the artist should be professional, but so should you, it's a monetary transaction), but also inflammatory. You will not win any internet points or make any friends when someone is extremely pissed at you about a serious issue and you come back with a bunch of owo's.

3. Next time it really would be better to not ask an artist for art at all unless you have your refs and info in hand. Otherwise you're asking them to be on pins and needles waiting for you to hurry up and make up your mind, and it didn't sound like you were in any hurry to accommodate her need for your ref.

Fault on both sides, but I'm addressing yours moreso because I think you can actually improve. Artist seems like a bit of a lost cause with their anger issues and all.

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

I actually had the refs ready originally. The problem is that the artist decided that the one character was too hard and I had to switch to something else, and the only character that fit wasn't complete at that time. I was stupid in not just demanding a refund at that point.

And yeah, I definitely could use some advice on improving my overall communication honestly. I'm already taking a lot of this to heart.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

This is really just making me want to not work for the OP, ever.


Also, a suggestion, although it may not apply for every artist. Don't tell an artist to 'don't worry about it, take your time'. Artists (well, me) want to get things done and off their list so they can either open more slots, or relax and take a break. making us (again, maybe just me) wait is extremely annoying. is why I don't accept commissions unless they can pay and get me all the info within a day or so.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I just read the stream caps and wow... From what I gather, most of her attitude is warranted. f I had a commissioner like OP, I would refund and tell them I cannot work for them, the artist obviously should have just blocked him and continued the stream but, she may not be an adult, or maybe not as experienced. It's not an excuse for her behavior, but still.

Also, the "Well I was going to give you more money" comment is extremely bad taste, and a very bad attempt at blackmail.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

I agree with the others that you could have been more concise about what you wanted, and should have had your refs ready. (Though I can understand why you hopped in to commission the artist without being ready, considering the artist had some sort of money emergency, from what I gather from the notes).

That said, it's on the artist to make sure they are clear on what you want, and what they will/won't draw. And if you had such a difficult, confusing commission description that she couldn't handle it in a professional manner, she should have just canceled it and refunded you. Involving her sister was also a poor move.

[xenafox.livejournal.com]

Every bit of this gave me a headache. Some things the artist said had me scratching my head like "what?" or facepalming, but OP I think you just came off confusing and demanding as hell. And agreeing with people about the emotes, those were adding to my headache for sure.

[mgsfriedchicken.livejournal.com]

Yeah no. You just posted a beware of yourself, unfortunately. Agreeing with everyone else, you should've had your refs ready so the commission wouldn't be so confusing. I would've refunded you.

[iinkwell.livejournal.com]

Ugh.
Migraine impending.
Personally, I would not work with EITHER of you.
She's childish and rage-filled with a doberman at her heels ready to snap at anyone who crosses her funny, and you're demanding and convoluted.

Bullet points might help you out in that department, but as an artist I HATE when someone sends me a billion notes on the same thing. Do it in one or two, or I will simply stop reading and just refund you right there.

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

Convoluted is a tad harsh, don't you agree? At least, given the matter of discussion and the fact you're conversing with me anyway.

Regardless, we were discussing commissions, rather than me just constantly adding on and on and on and on. I think I should add that to the entry for clarification.

But yeah, I plan on using bullet points and I've already gotten into a habit of re-clarifying exactly what I want if any changes or discussion was made. It's gotten to the point where if I wanted something different I would just commission them to do the different thing too. It does seem rude to ask an artist to change in the middle of something they've already agreed upon.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I realize it may be upsetting to you to see your own conduct be scrutinized, but this community looks at the conduct of both parties and it reflects poorly on you to retroactively try to hide it by editing your post. Please return the removed information so that the post is in the form it was approved in.

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

I was asked to condense it by other people, as well as simplify it. My co.duct is still present, and admitted to. It's... Hardly my best moment.

[werewolfofwater.livejournal.com]

?????

I can't even follow this, tbh, it's just written so incoherently. I'm not sure what you're even complaining about besides maybe her attitude, but yours wasn't exactly all peaches and sunshine, either.

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

I do not think I can edit it anymore than I have. I will try to rewrite this but I will need to check it over with moderation, I believe. I am also considering condensing tje screencaps but I want to avoid being one sided.

[poofypjs.livejournal.com]

I hate to bother over something that may sound trival, but could you pinpoint how I was being too immature(I guess would be the word). I admit we got into some scuffles, but I didn't exactly go out for heads here.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

I cannot locate a link to the finished work anywhere in this mess.
I can also barely tell whats going on in this entire post. :\

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

This entire post is a huge clusterfuck. It's not clear AT ALL what you were after, either in the commission or this post, and all I can suss out is that there was a disagreement and you two yelled at each other, and then her sister got involved and there was more yelling.