Help! Paypal chargebacks!

[fetalstar.livejournal.com]

Hey guys!
This is just me asking for some advice on something.

Tonight, I was issued two chargebacks (as of right now) from one of my commissioners. I've already e-mailed her, asking what's up. Her Paypal was hacked back in April, and her bank chose to ignore her list of false charges, and issued chargebacks for ALL of the things. She told me things should be straightened out in a couple days.

My question is, what should I do about it on my end?

The only options Paypal gives me on the "Resolve Chargeback" page are:
"Provide Shipping Information."
"I can provide evidence other than proof of shipment."
"I can provide proof that I refunded the payment for this transaction."
"I will accept liability for this transaction."

I have 10 days to put in my response... but... I'm not sure which option I should choose, if any. I'd like to copypaste the email she sent me, explaining her situation, and let Paypal review it, but I don't see anywhere that I can do that.

Do I even need to do anything? If she gets things straightened out in a couple days, will that fix it?

Fortunately, it didn't take anything out of my bank yet, and my Paypal account just has a negative balance. But I'd like to.... not have a negative balance. XD

Comments

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

Having the same problem so will be watching this thread for advice as well. :/ Sorry you're having to go through it also.

Edit to add: I've actually delivered part of her commission [1/5 pictures are finished and a couple more are sketched]. Do you think PayPal would accept that as evidence and refuse the chargeback?

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I don't know if Paypal keeps a record of charge backs and if it will affect you in the future, but if not, can't she just pay you again?

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

She told me if she couldn't get the chargeback reversed, she would re-pay everyone somehow, even though she's broke.

And I'm wondering how she can be broke if she's getting all the money back from the artists she paid. She should have the exact right amount to pay everyone back...

[keaalu.livejournal.com]

I've never had the misfortune of experiencing it, but doesn't Paypal issue a fine if the chargeback goes through? So even if the person pays them again, OP is still out $20 (or whatever it was).

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

don't "accept liability" ! they'll refund the money and slap you with a fee

If I were you I would wait a few days to see if she does straighten things out, and if not give paypal a call

[mosasakkine.livejournal.com]

I've worked with this customer a lot, and as such, the chargebacks on my account equaled near $600.

She has posted a journal on her FA, if that helps. Though I think Paypal has an option in the dispute to explain the situation (at least it did for me when I disputed a chargeback on something back in November). The buyer would be able to see your explanation and agree or disagree with it. I think if everyone did that with each of their chargebacks, it should speed up the process. There are real people on Paypal's end that review this stuff, so if all of the responses were along those lines, it's more likely they'll take notice.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Oh my gosh, Mosa. I am so sorry. I hope that gets cleared up, because that sheer amount is devastating.

[ocelotish]

I would 100% show what you've got. If you've got a current email from her paypal address saying "You shouldn't be charged-back," send that, along with any other confirmations that you have. You want to show that the work is done and that the person actually commissioned/wanted it.

You may want to ask her to send an email explicitly stating "I purchased [x] intentionally from you, fetalstar, I have [received it/know it is in progress] and am happy with that. I do not wish to issue a charge back against you because I am happy with the work you have done and commissioned you myself. The hacker is not responsible for paying you, I am."

[mosasakkine.livejournal.com]

It would be a bad idea for anybody to state what the transactions were for. I know we all should know better, but most of the work was definitely adult in nature, and if even one person just slips up or paypal decides to look deeper into what was purchased, a whole lot of us who are involved could have our accounts shut down. Best to just have them mention in their email that they intentionally made the purchase (with included paypal transaction numbers), and that it was not in any way fraudulent.

[funkicarus.livejournal.com]

i know this may sound really foolish and old fashioned, but in my experience, calling paypal is the quickest way to resolve issues that aren't covered by the choices on their site. they may give you an address to forward the information to or something.

a real human tends to understand more than their automated sorting system, y'know?

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I was chargebacked $450 by the same person, and there's a few other artists getting massive chargebacks right now.

[thatonejackal.livejournal.com]

I've been hearing about this lately, a friend of mine was chargebacked $165 for his. I hope this all solves ASAP

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

I'd call paypal asap. I've never had issues with customer service over the past 4 to 5 years and they have always resolved things wayyy more quickly over the phone then anything else.

Explain what is happening to a representative and tell them you are a freelance artist and was paid for digital art. Don't say a word more. That's legally all you have to tell them. Let them know about the e-mails and the situation. They will tell you how to file your dispute. Once you choose an option they give you, it will give you a window where you can copy and paste your evidence and dispute the charge back claim and then it's in paypals hands.

If paypal favors your claim, they should credit your money back into your account. They might even give it back before the claim finishes. But that's more up to them on that part.

But make sure to call as soon as you can and speak to them about it. The sooner the better.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Found out who it was, thankfully I wasn't hit (Unless they have an alternate account or two) Hope this all gets sorted for you guys, and them especially. I can see this as very frustrating.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I just posted that the buyer accidentally did the chargeback. Obviously worded a little differently but still.

I'm out $100 with the fees, and a lot more, if I can't get that money back asap. Hopefully paypal settles it because their account has so many accidental ones.

I don't want to think it's a scam, since there were great to work with, but...

[lemon-dip.livejournal.com]

I too was affected by $90 fees included. It's horrible having this happen again. However I will give the buyer the benefit of the doubt. I am the sole breadwinner of my household so every cent is incredibly important, but I am ok for now.

I do need to know though how I should go about this. I see some people mentioning that I ask her to write an email to me stating she did not intend to do a chargeback?
The art I did was for an adult image.

Sorry if the question was already answered. I am just unsure what to do at this point and situation as it is different from my last.

[ocelotish]

The more people who say they're getting charged back, the odder this seems. Are we sure the person in question isn't just suffering buyer's remorse or running short on funds?

It's sad when 5 people are out $30 each, but seeing there are 6 people on this post alone, many out of money in $100 range... that strikes me as fishy.

Has this person been buying art at this pace for a while? That's a lot of money to be spending at ~$1200 a month (which is ballpark what we have here alone). Even if the person were spending ~$200 a month in commissions (still a lot), that's $1000 extra out of thin air. It just seems veyr fishy.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing. There are so many artists with such high numbers, I'm wondering if this buyer didn't have a case of "whoa, shit" once they realized how much money their commission purchases added up to.

The stolen-card story is possible, don't get me wrong - it just seems suspicious.

[pandacat-magic.livejournal.com]

What's going on here? I don't even recall this person commissioning me; and now I'm -$30 dollars on my paypal. :\
I haven't even BEEN on my paypal since I started working.

I'm just.

Why is this even happening.

[fetalstar.livejournal.com]

You can't be issued a chargeback for something you didn't receive money for. Maybe you just don't remember. :X

[familliaraver.livejournal.com]

I've heard of like 3 other people in the past few days. To me, it sounds like someone got ahold of their parent's credit card or parents gave them a credit card for expenses maybe school related and the parents found out about all the charges and art then issued charge backs.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I don't think that's the case. She even offered to pay me part of it back right now, and I'm sure she's done the same for other artists. It looks genuine.

Last time this happened to me, it WAS a kid who stole his parents credit card. That was last year and he barely paid me the second half back about two-three weeks ago.

[the-sushi-ushi.livejournal.com]

I also got hit with the chargebacks ,but I'd like to state that she was an excelent commisioner! She offered to pay whoever she can back. :3

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Do you know if she's actually paid anyone back?

Mine resulted in an emergency in which I needed the money asap, and despite her saying to note her with such, I was ignored (Notes/email were read, but never replied to)and had to ask for help from another source.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

This is just so odd....Why can't paypal just fix the bloody account? They know the account was hacked, would it not be easy (in theory) to just straighten things back up. The records should all be in their database....

:( Hope it all gets straightened out soon for you guys who were hit and for her.

[fetalstar.livejournal.com]

It's an issue with her credit card company, not Paypal. The hacker used her credit card through Paypal, so it was the CC company that reversed the charges. Paypal is just a middleman in all of this.

[mekania.livejournal.com]

I'm really really confused by the commissioner's recent comments. The credit card company won't reverse the chargebacks, ok. But since the credit card is cancelled they want nothing to do with the her but she wants to try and come up with a payment plan to pay back some of the artists every few weeks? Does that mean the money from the chargebacks is being kept by the cc company (presumably because of an outstanding balance, though that is just me speculating.) and she will not be getting any of it back?

The commissioner seems nice but I don't know. This all seems really weird to me. I know things can be different with different companies but I've had two instances of false charges from different card companies and both times *I* had to prove how the charges couldn't have been me before they would do anything about it. And they required specifics on the charges/dates.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I'm confused as well. When an artist disputes the chargebacks, shouldn't they be able to answer those disputes and say "okay this is a legitimate transaction", and stop them from going through at all?

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Okay, so....I'm confused about a few things as a whole, and maybe someone here can answer.

First, the paypal disputes. When paypal initiates a dispute, it gets sent to the seller, the seller disputes it back, and it gets sent back to the buyer for their response. Why isn't she answering them and getting them resolved? It's been over a week already.

Secondly, she canceled her card before this was resolved. Why? And she's saying for artists to accept liability (and potentially get feed) and she will get the money back and pay everyone back quicker. Then in one of her journals, she says it will take her a long time to do so because she makes $8/hr at a part time job.

Thirdly, why hasn't she sent emails to all the artists stating that they were legitimate transactions to send to paypal as evidence and get it resolved?

And lastly, how did she not notice the hack when it was ongoing? Wasn't she still commissioning artists during this presumed hack period?

I just really don't know what to think of this whole thing. I really want to trust her, she's really a sweet person and amazing client, but I'm out such an exorbitant amount that I have no idea what to think and with all these things adding up against each other, it feels like the Candywolfie episode all over again.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

If the card issued the chargeback, it should work like this:

Card takes money from Paypal in the chargeback
Paypal flips out because they lost their money, takes it out of the sellers account AND asks about the reason.

Card holder in this case doesn't seem to have the money, and that's where I personally see the disconnect.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

She just paid me back $436, as an update. If I win the disputes, I'll be sending it back to her (I couldn't accept liability since I fought the chargebacks).

[mekania.livejournal.com]

Im so glad you got your money back! Lets hope this gets settled with evryone else too!

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

So the chargebacks went through, and I got feed for six of them so far. I called paypal, and some of them have been reversed but the person I spoke to said they might not do them for all of the chargebacks.

So wtf am I supposed to do exactly...? I had 12 disputes, at $20 each that's -$240. They reversed 6 of them, so I'm going to end up feed -$120 if they decide not to reverse the rest.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Oh, and they told me that they normally fee $75 to the seller per transaction?

I dunno if the person I spoke to was new and reading by the book or what. I'm confused.

[the-sushi-ushi.livejournal.com]

I know many people have probably forgotten about this case ,but I thought I'd update everyone with what happened to me. Instead of accepting liability for the chargeback ,I instead showed proof of shipping. However , I still lost the dispute. Paypal bearly gave me a week or two to figure out how i would pay them back before sending collections on me (money is extremely tight). :/. One of my family members helped me out. I'll be owing them the money rather than paypal.
Please, anyone with a negative balanace please take care of your paypal stuff. I didn't even know paypal was going to send me to collections for that owed ammount so soon. The lady on the phone was pretty rude about it too ,ugh. Just watch your account and take care of your stuff. The very first thing she asked for when I answered the phone was for my debit and/or credit card numbers so she can take the money out of either. :/.

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's a huge bummer. :( Sorry you had to go through that.