Kovu The Tiger

[p4ve.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I've been putting this off for a long while, hoping that things would clear up, but they haven't.

May 18, Kovu Tiger requested a full colored, shaded, image with a BG for his now ex-mate.
May 20, I finished the sketch, and he said everthing was great. Later that day I gave him my PayPal, which was what we had agreed on, only to find out that he didn't have it, so I gave him my mailling adress so that he could just mail me a money order. Told him that after I got payment I would finish the image. HE said that he had mailed it out and would let me know, two days later I still didn't have any word so I sent him a friendly reminder about it, he replied with somethign about money getting tight and so he couldn't pay right away.

June 1st, he asked to get the sketch again, because he deleted it or something, so I resent it. After which him and his ex broke up. After which he brought up not paying for the commission, as it was a gift (Which was just a picture of himself) for his mate, and they broke up so it was pointless. I told him that he still needed to pay for a digital sketch, and he eventually said that he did want the image finished completly, so he would pay for that.
June 5th, Kovu was in a chat room, talking about not paying because he didn't have to pay if he didn't want to. After a long debate, which involed him telling me I "Finished the image too fast!", amung other things, my boyfriend straydog, stepped in and said that I should give him till July 5th to pay.

July 5th rolled around and I still had not gotten a check in teh mail, so I confronted him about it. His reply was that he didn't want to so he didn't have to.

Then today, I talked to him about it again, in which Kovu stated "I'm not using the image so I don't have to pay you for anything."

I've just giving up on this, as he's clearly imature, and I just can't stand seeing "But I'm not using it!" or, "Well my family are cops!" So I just wanted to give a heads up to everyone, do not draw for this person.

Comments

[growly.livejournal.com]

*bashes head against table* This is why you don't start the commission until you have PAYMENT!!!
Seriously, about 40% of cases here could be avoided if everybody did that.

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Or give seriously shoddy scans of the undersketching to be sure things are right.

[growly.livejournal.com]

Eh, I don't even do that. If I haven't been paid, I have no obligation to do anything for them.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Heh, even when I HAVE been payed, I never give out good-resolution images until the very end.

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

I’m with you on that. I want to see some cash before I put any work into an image. You’re not a charity, and dishing out free sketches before asking for payment only encourages thieves.

[crssafox.livejournal.com]

That method is fine, but if someone decides they suddenly don't like your work, don't be surprised if you never get paid for the sketch. Some people don't mind not being paid for a sketch - since they're supposed to be quick, and not have much detail anyhow - and probably nine times out of ten you'll have the commissioner pay you and you'll be able to finish up the entire product.

But like I said, don't be surprised if you never see any kind of payment for a sketch you've already done, if they decide they don't want it. However, one thing you CAN do with a random sketch (and a way to potentially make some money from it) is to finish it up - perhaps color the character differently than originally specified - and either sell the finished image, or put it into your portfolio as a practice piece. :)

[fiercereaper.livejournal.com]

What about getting payment for the sketch first, kindof like a deposit? You get paid for your work, and then the sketch money goes toward the main comission? That way you get paid for your time, and the comissioner feels like they're getting something too(aside from arts!).

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'll learn that fact until something along the lines of someone not paying happens.

Actually, I started doing sketch-pay-finish because someone(s) still haven't sent me their payments for finished commissions. One I was SURE would pay me. I trusted her wholly, as she was a friend of mine and of my ex (with whom I am still friends).
$50 that I still don't have and she's already given the finished thing to her boyfriend. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/xainy/Krysfinished.jpg
Fifty fucking dollars. ._.

Sorry I'm venting to you. XD

[growly.livejournal.com]

Sunnovabitch... I am so sick of artists in this fandom being taken advantage of.
People always get indignant when they're told that *gasp* the artist's time, effort, and materials are actually worth something! How can this be??? Isn't an artist's job to gift us all with free little masterpieces whenever we ask? And to beg, bother, and harass said artists until they give us exactly the picture we're imagining in our minds down to every last detail? xP

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

lol, yah. :E I hate it when people have an exact picture in their mind and with WHAT THEY GIVE YOU and no more, you are expected to create AN EXACT REPLICA of what they see in their head.
*not a mind reader*

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Speaking of commisions, did you mail our badges yet?

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

Yah speaking of...I kept putting it off, really I have no excuse...but kind Growly donated some money, so I will be able to laminate them! They WILL be sent out this week. I promise promise promise. I think I'll actually get them laminated tomorrow, and perhaps mail them right afterwards. I've never had lamination done before, so I don't know what the rules are on that. The plastic does dry immediately, correct?

At any rate, mailed either tomorrow or the next day, and they'll get to you the day after they're mailed, I believe. They'll be laminated and in your possession soon! (:

[duraji-synth.livejournal.com]

The problem with that, though, is when you get people who take your money and NEVER GIVE YOU ANYTHING. I've lost $20 and $32.50 on two different artists who have owed me a commission for almost two years now... which is why I NEVER pay in advance before I at least receive a simple gesture sketch.

[growly.livejournal.com]

At some point, one party is going to HAVE to trust the other.
If an artist has been doing business for a while and has built up a good reputation, I think that should be enough to go off of.
Do your homework and research before you commission. I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences, but that really is quite rare to have happen.
I am MUCH more likely to trust a well-known artist who has been doing commissions for a while, than some random commissioner I've never heard of before.

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

I will admit to sometimes putting things off. I have had complicated commissions in the past that have gone on for a year, but after that, I refund or finish. No one yet has asked for a refund, so I haven't had to do that.

This community has also helped me to get off my ass. I see people get on here for being late or people saying that they hate people who can't follow deadlines and now I do my best to finish commissions fairly quickly.

But! Commissioners also need to understand that when I (this may not be true for other artists) take many commissions at once, like I did for my fiance's bday, I can't crank them all out one after the other in a couple weeks. Then I get horrible art block and can't draw ANYTHING. So I do a commission or 4 and then I take a break and hang out for a couple days playing WoW and such and then continue with the arting. :3
So far, I think I'm almost done with most of my commissions. Still have umachica's thedrgngrl's and wulfsiege's and to finish Tanith's, of course. Then on to yours and the gifts/trades that I owe. *sigh* Probably I'm forgetting someone but I'll remember later. lol

AND about the badge I owe you. I think we're getting them laminated tomorrow (thank you SO MUCH for your generous donation *hughughug* You restored my FAITH in the human race. XD) and probably sending them off tomorrow and if not, then the next day. I wondered if you wanted me to wait to send your badge with your other full picture or if I should send it with the other badges. (:

Sorry about all these long comments to you. P:

[growly.livejournal.com]

Hehe, it was no problem. ^__^ I would not mind getting my badge now, I'm going to a con in 9 days (and counting!)
Still have my address handy?

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

OOH! Then I'll definately send it this week so you can have it for the con!
If your address was sent with your paypal payment, I definately have it.

BTW, I LOVE your icon you've been using lately. It's a cute style. (:

[growly.livejournal.com]

I don't think I sent my addy... I will note you on DA with it. :D

And thanks! jillarts did it for me a while ago.

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

Okay thank you! (:

[duraji-synth.livejournal.com]

Both of those artists had done commissions before and had never disappointed anyone else. Both artists said AFTER they took my money that my idea was very tough to draw and that it would take a while. Both artists have yet to show me a single sketch.

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

June 5th, Kovu was in a chat room, talking about not paying because he didn't have to pay if he didn't want to.

*throws rocks at him*

Ugh this is definitely why no one gets good quality art until they've paid.

[shimmerhawk.livejournal.com]

What a retard. You did a commissioned sketch for him, and he NEEDS to pay for it. It doesn't matter what he WANTS to do. How old is this guy?

In the future I would recommend not starting the art until you've received payment, or if you want to show them progress pics before getting full payment, watermark the hell out of it so they can't steal it.

[growly.livejournal.com]

Maybe the watermark can even say something like "this sketch has not yet been paid for" so that if they try to repost it anywhere people will call him out on it?

[drake-anaya.livejournal.com]

When I was doing quick and cheap commissions, the sketches all came at low resolutions with "COMMISSION SKETCH COMMISSION SKETCH" or something similar until I got the moneys. I recommend this to ANYONE who doesn't take the full money upfront. Personal commissions or large contract work alike. "SAMPLE" "NOT FOR REPRODUCTION" "NOT PAID" - all good ideas.

[shimmerhawk.livejournal.com]

Great idea!

[witchiebunny.livejournal.com]

If he's the person I know..

17 or 18.

[growing-rose.livejournal.com]

No offence meant, by why send him another copy of the sketch he "lost" after he had been kind of off about paying you in the first place?

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Oh his family is cops so he doesn't have to pay for gay furry porn?
Send the sketch to his father and see what he has to say about that ;P
In fact, add a few tentacles and dicknipples before you do ;P

Otherwise you can still sell the sketch as a "finish this sketch!" commission or finish it and sell it as a completed image.

[dirtylittlelie.livejournal.com]

LOL YOU SAID DICKNIPPLE

[shadow-5tails.livejournal.com]

I don't do commissions, but I've been burned on art trades after the other party broke up with their partner or similar. It seems to be a common pattern, sadly. Relationships end, and it's usually saddening when they do, but hard-hearted as it may sound, I don't think unconnected third parties should be left out of pocket because of it.

I'm beginning to suspect that a "partner clause" would be a good thing in commission terms & conditions - something along the lines of: "If the commission is for, of or to be given to a romantic partner of the commissioner, the commissioner agrees to pay the artist irrespective of the status of the relationship at completion of the commission."

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

Nice idea, but if someone's not going to pay, you can write all the clauses you like, but they ~still~ won't pay. Money upfront is the safest method, even if it's just a deposit to cover the sketch work.

[shadow-5tails.livejournal.com]

*shrug* As I said, I don't do commissions at all, so it's a moot point for me. Some people, however, feel there's a point to having terms up on their site/contracts/what have you and if that works for them, good luck to 'em. And I can see there potentially being a proportion - however small - of the people that don't want to pay for an image in the event of a breakup, who feel that since they've agreed to a slightly more formalised business transaction they have to see it through. YMMV.

On the other hand, there enough tales in this community of artists who take money and fail to follow through on their promises that some commissioners might feel justified in being wary of artists who demands money up-front. I like the 50% up-front, 50% on completion approach in theory, but for anything other than effortless PayPal-style transactions it -will- turn people off, particularly once currency conversion fees and the like become involved.

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

Many valid points. Though I’ve always asked for 50% for the sketch work, then the remaining 50% before I’ll start the colour work, *or* the full 100% upfront. Though in return I offer continuous WIPs and work in close communication with my buyer. I’ve not once had a commissioner dash off with any of my artwork for free, yet ^_~. So I’m content with the way things are running at the moment. My best advice for any buyer is to go for an artist with a good honest reputation and quality commission work (I know many good artists, but the moment they do commissions, they just knock out any old rubbish D= )

[growing-rose.livejournal.com]

That's so ridiculous. I had commissioned a friend of mine to do a picture of my boyfriend and I at the time cuddling. Then what happens? Next time I talk to her, we'd been broken up for over a month.

Hell yeah, I still want the inks she finished! It's still a nice picture, the boy and I are still friends. Even if we weren't, she was nice enough to offer a whole new piece/finish that piece and add something extra on top. Another friend of mine who has a commission for me finished of us also offered to completely redo it.

Really people, it's not that hard! If you break up, talk to the artist and the artist will hopefully be understanding and try to come to an equal compromise for you. I certainly would offer to do something new if it was just at the sketch stage.

[schnee.livejournal.com]

A perfect example of how not to behave as a customer. >_> Thanks for the warning!

[witchiebunny.livejournal.com]

Is this guy also known as cool kovu, or full blood lion?

[p4ve.livejournal.com]

I doubt its the latter, He's a tiger, with ram horns. O_o

[growly.livejournal.com]

Off topic, but I love your dead tanuki icon. xD May I snag it for my boyfriend (he's a tanuki)?

[p4ve.livejournal.com]

More tanukis D: Nuuuu, I was teh only one for so long.

But sure, go ahead.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

You know I recently met a Kovu the Tiger at an anime con in Lafyette. I wonder if he was the same guy. Where is this Kovu from?

[p4ve.livejournal.com]

He says he's from FL, but his IP says he's from VA. So I dunno, never cared enough to ask. But he's a chubbish guy short hair glasses ai think, wow that narrowed it down. XD