Looking for Advice about Seeking a Refund

[thegrackelknows.livejournal.com]

I'm looking for advice about a problem I'm having with an artist I commissioned. I commissioned this person for eight different pieces of art, equaling almost four hundred dollars total. Only three of these commissions were completed. Recently, my paypal was hacked and my credit card information was stolen and used. I gave my credit card company a list of the fraudelant charges, but they made an error and filed chargebacks on every transaction on that card since february, putting holds on several artists' account, including this artist. I informed all of the artists that, since I won't be getting money back from the credit card company for several months, I would pay them the money that was taken from their accounts if they were in desperate need and couldn't wait.

This artist informed me they needed the money for bills, as paypal took the money that was in their account and put it in the negative. I paid them the money I had originally given them because I didn't want them to be unable to pay rent because of my mistake. They then told me to give them the money that had also been in their account, which was more than I had given them for the commissions. I refused and they did not mention it again. They then asked me to pay for the fees that paypal hit them with. I told them that they just needed to call paypal and explain the situation and they would not fee this person, which is what other artists hit by this had successfully done, but they informed me that paypal said that wouldn't work in this person's case. I do not know why and directed them to some of the artists that had gotten the fees taken off.

Recently, this artist got a job and made a journal stating they would give refunds when they were financially secure. I asked them if they could put me on this list since they were no longer in dire need of that money for rent and I could use it to pay off someone else. They contacted me back saying to just let the credit card company handle it, since I would probably be getting the original money back from them. I explained to this person that I didn't know if the credit card company would give me all of it back and even if they did, I want a refund of the second payment I gave them, that as it stands now, I paid them twice. They noted me back saying that it was up to paypal or the credit card company to give that money back, that I didn't pay them for anything let alone twice. They did say that they would give it back if they needed to, but that I should wait for everything to be resolved through the credit card company, but I won't be seeing any money from them until around november, maybe later.

I noted them back saying that I don't mind if the refund isn't immediate, I would just like to be on their list of people to be refunded and tried to explain more clearly that I did pay them twice, it was just that the first payment was taken by a third party and that I want the second payment back when they feel financially comfortable. They noted me back saying that they didn't think a refund would be any time soon, but they would see what they would do.

Then this person noted me again, eight minutes later, detailing the bills they needed to pay as an example of why I won't be getting my money back any time soon, which is fine, I have bills, too and I understand. But they then stated that their other commissioners come first because they have been 'oddly patient' and 'deserve the money fair and square', that even though they hadn't started on my commissions, that money was still rightfully theirs. I'm sure that they didn't mean for it to sound this way, but I felt they were insinuating that because I was looking for a refund, and that I needed this money back because my credit card company screwed up, I should be penalized or I didn't deserve any of my money back.

I don't mind that they won't be able to give me a refund immediately, I mostly just want them to understand that they do owe me, either through art or my money back, but so far, it looks like they think they don't owe me anything. I'm not putting any of the screenshots in this post because I'm just looking for advice on what to do. Should I wait for my credit card company to resolve everything or try to further explain things to this individual? I just want to make sure that this 390 dollars doesn't disappear through misinformation.

Also, I apologize if I did this post wrong, this is my first post here.

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I'm not fully sure I understand. You paid for work, your CC company yanked back all those payments, so you paid this artist again to make up for what was taken, and now you want a refund on that second payment from them even though for them, it's the 'only' payment they actually have for work completed? Because I would not say you're owed a refund in that particular case.

Or is it that you just want a refund for the work that hasn't been done yet? Because that's fair, and they certainly have no right to keep money for work they haven't done. But if that's the case, your CC issues are basically irrelevant.

So could you please clarify?

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

This, I really don't know what's going on in a lot of this. Clarification would be GREAT.

[thegrackelknows.livejournal.com]

Yes, basically I was looking for a refund on the work that was not completed. I informed the artist that I would not be looking for a refund for the completed art. The problem is that I paid for this uncompleted work, and this payment was taken, but not given back to me yet. So, I'm out twice as much. I just wanted the second payment I gave refunded, since the first is in a kind of vacuum with my credit card company.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I get the whole "I paid 200% of the value of these commissions"? Did you pay half up front, get some of the work, and paid the other half? Or..?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Okay, I understand a bit better now. You definitely have the right to demand a refund for uncompleted work and essentially cancel the remaining commissions, as long as you pay for what you HAVE received.

If they refuse to comply, you have every right to post them here as a proper beware.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

It's not the artist's fault you're out of that amount twice though, so there is no need to keep bringing it up. They are not sitting on a double payment and everything that happened was beyond their control.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

In addition to this, your CC company will be (eventually) giving you the "first" payment you made to the artist, since it's currently hanging in limbo. Currently, yes, you are out "200%" of the original cost, but it won't stay that way.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

From what I can see, the OP only brought it up once, and then clarified when the artist claimed the OP hadn't paid *at all*.

Either way, I don't see why the OP needs to wait until the CC clears up to get a refund for work that has not been/will not be (according to the artist) completed, and HAS been properly paid for outside of the CC mess.

It's not going to magically get the refund back, since the CC company has nothing to do with the second payment.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I think the waiting is more just in case anything weird goes down since the CC situation still seems a little unstable.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Yea, but the CC situation, at this point, has nothing to do with the artist not wanting to do the rest of the commissions and not wanting to refund the commissioner for work that will never be finished.

Artist was paid in full. Artist says they no longer want to do any commissions and will refund people for what isn't done. Artist refuses to refund this person (no idea why, maybe just because it's such a large amount).

Right now, the artist has money for commissions they say they won't complete. Why should they be allowed to keep that money?

Essentially, everything involving the artist and the CC chargeback is DONE. The money was already removed, they were already repaid by the OP. The CC company is out of the picture for the artist, completely.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

My personal opinion is that you both need to wait until the cc/paypal have decided who to award the funds to, and work from there.

At best you're entitled to seek a refund for the work not yet completed, but I personally would be wary of sending any more funds back or forth until the original issue is resolved.

[copper-season.livejournal.com]

If the credit card company releases the funds, will it go back to you or to the artist?

I can see the artist's point of view with this also. They have had the money taken from their account and also lost money because their account went into the negative. I would wait until the issue is finally resolved with the credit card company and then ask for the refund for the unfinished art.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

So you paid, and that payment was returned by the CC company, then you paid again.
Now you want the artist to refund you from that second payment which was received, for work which will go unfinished?

Is that it? What's the problem exactly?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

The problem appears to be that the first payment is in limbo, so the OP is essentially out double. The artist doesn't want to refund the unfinished work it seems as it'll... affect their Paypal?

I think I'm reading it right.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Uh, if the first payment was reversed by the CC company, then the CC company is responsible. Not the artist.

[trentxandrew.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit confused as well. So you paid 400$ for 8 drawings but only have 3. Then the credit card company caused a clusterfuck. The artist needed to be repaid sooner than the credit card company could release the funds so you repaid them the 400$ again. You are now cancelling the remaining 5 drawings and would like a refund for those. Is that right?

Are they trying to ignore your request to cancel these drawings so they can continue with the commission to keep the money? Or are they thinking they don't need to draw the rest or refund at all?

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why everyone is confused.

OP commissioned artist. Artist finished three of eight pictures. The CC company messes up and chargebacks tons of people, the OP offers to pay the artist back the money that was owed and removed for the commissions.

Artist then says "hey guys, I got a real job so I'll be refunding everyone!"

OP asks to be included for the refunds for the five incomplete pieces of art. I don't think she was asking to be reimbursed for the original payment and the second payment, just the money owed for those five incomplete pieces.

Which, if the OP is who I think it is, then I know who the artist is, and this isn't the first time she's been posted here.

Edit: I removed a curse since I dunno A_B's policy on language.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

This is how I understood as well.

[mekania.livejournal.com]

This is how I'm understanding it as well.

That the artist believes the commissioner doesn't deserve her money back because of the chargeback situation is not cool at all. OP should definitely be refunded the money for the artwork the artist won't complete.

I said a lot about this situation before but since I can actually say it to the OP I'm going to take this opportunity. I hope this never ever happens again to you but if it does, I suggest paying the artists who finished their work first and cancelling any commissions that haven't been started on yet. It's completely not your fault that the artist is doing this to you now, but it may have saved you some headache.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

Well if the artist is who I think it is, this isn't the first time she acted like the client didn't deserve their money back. And it's a shame that she hasn't fixed her behavior.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's what I figured out as well. I guess the artist is holding the fees against the OP? If that's the case, it's not the OP's fault, and Paypal has been happily giving the fees back to people.

OP, if the artist refuses to refund you, I would issue a beware on them. Your second payment is still legitimate.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

The artist should have called paypal again the next day. I had to speak to a second person to get all of mine reversed. The first one said they would only do it for one or two and that it was against their policy.

[sorethumb.livejournal.com]

You haven't gotten back to many of these responses, so I'd break it out like such: A spreadsheet denoting money paid to the artist.

(100) 100 - Commission for XXX
(150) 50 - Commission for XXX
(200) 50 - Commission for XXX
(250) 50 - Commission for XXX
--- etc---
(370) 50 - Commission for XXX
(0) - 370 - Paypal Hack Chargeback
(370) 370 - Repaid the above
(320) -50 - Commission work completed
(270) -50 - Commission work completed
(220) -50 - Commission work completed
(220) 0 - Amount for remaining 5 works that will not be completed that needs to be refunded.

Or such.