(no subject)

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I really hate having to post here. I have a bit of anxiety issues and was hoping to just let this go, but many of my friends said it's really something that needs to be shared. I actually wasn't sure if it's even worth a beware, so I asked for the mods opinions first, to make sure I wasn't posting wrongly.

WHO: They have two accounts on FA, lil-ariin and ariin

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/lil-ariin/

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/ariin/

WHAT: A digital piece, full colour, two characters and a background.

WHEN: First payed on July 29^th, finished completely on September 1^st

PROOF:

Commission info he sent me

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin1.png

Payment sent

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin2.png

Giving his friend permission to approve progress

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin3.png

Explaining that I can only work with one person, since he gave his friend permission for approvals

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin4.png

Sending the friend the sketch

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking2.png

Approving the sketch with a minor change needed

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking3.png

Contacting about how I was having trouble and giving different options

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking4.png

Bit of a misunderstanding and just explaining what's going on.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking5.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking6.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking7.png

Got out of that funk and was able to ink it and sent it for a approval, both approving

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking8.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking9.png

Sent finished piece

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/viking10.png

Ariin now contacts me, no word from the friend.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin5.png

We start discussing things

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin6.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin7.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin8.png >> I misread what he had said here, my fault! I thought he was upset that only his character didn't have a visible diaper, not that he wanted visble diapers on the ground.

http://oi49.tinypic.com/10efryu.jpg 

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin10.png

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc453/sbneko/Do%20not%20Delete/ariin11.png

EXPLAIN: I'd like to state right away that I did do a few mistakes. I personally have always shown progress approvals, both the sketch and inks, this is to make sure that if I do forget anything, it can be fixed right away. When something is my own mistake and something small enough, I'll gladly fix it after the fact. Otherwise though, big things do really need to be asked in the sketch or ink stage. But this varies from person to person.

Ariin commissioned me for a picture. As I had others ahead of him, it took a bit of time before I could get to the sketch and make sure to send updates on that. On August 9^th, I sent the sketch for approval. On the 16^th I sent a reminder of approval. I no longer have the email, but may be able to find it by digging, but his friend, the other character in the image, messaged me to ask about the sketch, Ariin had left for vacation withought mentioning so. I personally cannot work with more then one person, as when I've done it before one would ask for changes, then the other and contradict themselves, because of that I work with one person who is responsible to comunicate for both parties.

In the end, Ariin contacted me, approved the sketch and gave permission for his friend to approve stages instead as he wasn't going to be back yet from vacation.

During this time, I had a really difficult time continuing on with the image. It's a bit difficult to understand if you're not an artist I think, but sometimes things just don't seem to turn out right and feel a bit awkward. I didn't want to give a bad picture or make them wait too long, so I gave different options and asked if it'd be ok. They went with re-sketching the same idea. After taking a break though I got out of that funk and was able to continue on with inking no problem and sent it off for approval. I realize this is most likely a big fault on my end and should have asked if they wanted me to continue or go with the re-sketch. I hadn't thought of it as I was already working on it and they did very much seem to like the sketch. The friend said they both approved.

I continued on and finished the commission. That's when Ariin contacted me. The screenshots have all the info for that.

In the end, I felt much too stressed to continue with it and refunded the background fee for things I had missed and couldn't fix and a bit extra for good faith.

I would like to say though that his friend was a great joy to work with and talked to me calmly, he seems like a really nice guy that just got caught up in the middle. He messaged me to tell me he did like the picture a lot. 

Comments

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

This post has been approved because the screencaps clearly outline his unreasonable behavior, however your "Explain" section is a little too emphatically self-critical.

You as the artist did your best to provide a service and it was his actions that were unreasonable, so if you could edit the post to reflect that - i.e. write a clear and preferably neutral summary of everything that happened instead of tearing yourself down and making excuses when you were not to blame - we would appreciate that, for the sake of clarity and making the post easy to comprehend.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Sure, that won't be a problem. I have to admit, I felt like it was needed because I was nervous I may have done something wrong. I'll edit it.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Edited! Do let me know if you feel anything else should be taken out or reworded.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Wait, was he expecting you to be psychic about the personalities? When commissioning art it is imperative to note any sorts of personality traits that are important to the character. It is not the artist's job to hunt down any information besides what is provided.

This beware is well warranted. First he handed the reins over to his friend, and then gets upset when everything is not up to par? And then he has the nerve to insult your business practices when he's asking for more than what was originally agreed to? No. Just no.

You did far more than you were obligated to, SB. I've worked with you before, and I know you are professional and to the point. I commend you for staying calm all through the end, because that transaction would have ended with "Sorry, but you approved all the stages. There are no edits as per my ToS." if it were me.

(OT: and my SO and I were just discussing how we need to commission you...)

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I have to thank my friends for that, especially Temrin. Having someone to talk to, especially another professional artist, really helps you stay in line, know what you should and shouldn't do, as well as help look over replies so that you don't sound rude. I very much suggest this for anyone who gets emotional easily.

And thank you very much for the compliments.

[magicalondine.livejournal.com]

Wow... I read through all those messages, and I could almost feel the stress coming on, just imagining myself in that situation.

I agree with Taasla. You did a lot more work on this than was necessary, just to appease them after they gave you a huge list of changes after it was completed. You're clearly very professional about this, but Ariin did not seem like they were really willing to work with you or respect your work process.

Beware well warranted... @_@;;

[trentxandrew.livejournal.com]

I'm just weird and get annoyed with silly things, but the part where he was complaining about you not knowing his personalty because you didn't talk to him and are now out the "wonderful" experience of his friendship just seems really rude and snooty. Like, REALLY REALLY rude.

[forsaken-malice.livejournal.com]

I'm still reeling from that personality comment myself... wtf

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I saw that, too and forgot to comment about it. I especially loved the part where he says email is terrible, haha, no.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

Oh goodness. This is kind of a clusterfluff. SB, he was being pretty unreasonable. Unfortunately, sometimes people expect artists to be more than a mere person. You have to be like a psychic art-making robot, but still retain a perfect personality. I've got anxiety too, and I'm pretty sure I would have ended this commission half way though D:
I'm sorry that no matter how much extra you did, they were never happy.

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

It didn't seem so bad at first and then I kept reading. The passive-aggressive (sometimes right out aggressive) tones, the bullying, the insults, etc. are just absurd and uncalled for. What does he expect an artist to do when taking commissions online? Telephone? If he expects it to be over a messenger that is not good for either party since it can lead to more confusion and downright creep behavior.

Also, rumors about you? What is this stereotype about baby fur artists? This last part is just pure curiosity though.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

All I could think of was he meant maybe Skype or IM? I mean, not many artists use those because they are reserved for friends ad commissioners sometimes that advantage of that.

[mekania.livejournal.com]

"I'll avoid ranting about how everyone were right about babyfur artists in this email. Just know that you have quite a rumor, apparently. sucks to actually see it"

Say what? Is he saying you have a bad reputation because you won't let people take advantage of you? You've owned up and fixed things you were wrong and some things you really shouldn't have had to do.

The "interesting business model" and all the comments about he wishes you got to know them before drawing/email not being great for commissioning really rubbed me the wrong way. Email is probably the best way to communicate. You have everything written and in one place so you can refer back to it if there are problems. Like say, a commissioner trying to make changes to things they were fine with in the first place (or an artist saying you never told them something you did, in the opposite situation).

Sorry you went through this. And if the worst thing they can honestly say about you is that when they wanted extra edits you refunded them for your mistakes? Then I think your reputation will be fine, regardless of his talk of "rumors".

[neiramarina.livejournal.com]

Eeesh. Beware totally warranted. You have a LOT more patience than I do, girl. I'm just shaking my head reading this guy's emails and all that nitpicking. Wow. =n=;;

[ocelotish]

I do feel as though there were a few things you over-looked in the description, but that doesn't excuse the commissioner's behavior at all. He was 100% in the wrong for treating you that way. However, on your part it doesn't read as sleep-over, and cetainlydidn't at first: that seems like a major issue. (There were some details you left out, but I think mood is a bigger deal than "mess of clothes.") You didn't do anything to deserve what you got in return, but I can see where he wasn't happy about that.

You may want to include a "basic personality" field. While you certainly can't be expect to be psychic, you can take steps to avoid it in the future.

Also, how much was the entire piece? I'm trying to get a scale of what the $30 refund means.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I do understand, it's something I need to watch for in the future. I think maybe I just sketch too quickly and don't realize I missed something, but it's also why I send approvals, just as a precaution. I think it's mostly because it was a lot of text for me, personally, so I just missed things as I working. Next time, I'm going to ask the commissioner to condense it to bullet point, or do it myself and run it by them to make sure I got everything important.


The piece was about 100. 20 being the background fee, so I refunded it in full.

[glacidea.livejournal.com]

oh god, I hate when people think they are instantly your BFF because they commissioned you. To me, email or PMs are the best communication because there is hard evidence of the transaction and IMs can be informal, plus I just don't like using IM, really, in general. You did everything you could and were professional. It's not your fault that the sketch was approved the way it was. They should have voiced their displeasure then.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

"I'll avoid ranting about how everyone were right about babyfur artists in this email. Just know that you have quite a rumor, apparently. sucks to actually see it"

If babyfur artists have such bad reputations, what about their overly critical babyfur customers? :|
Beware well earned.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

^This

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

Wow, beware extremely well warranted. His extremely passive aggressive comment at the bottom of the journal on his ariin account about the commissions he's waiting for makes yet another good reason to avoid him.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, great catch. I don't know if that was there before or not. I don't know where he thinks it's an artist's job to become bffs with clients.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you aired this out. Seriously well deserved beware. Blocking on all ends. :3

[ellonwye.livejournal.com]

'Please note that because most artists on FA seem to be complete morons, I will only commission or even accept art from people I know well. A lesson for the artists; GET TO KNOW YOUR FUCKING CLIENT. It takes you 10 minutes. You get paid for that. Lesson for commissioners: Get to know your artist or you will be gravely disappointed.'

Oh, honey. No.

[bobghengiskhan.livejournal.com]

The irony here is by all accounts if artists actually did get to know him as a client, they wouldn't be doing business with him.

[magnanimousity.livejournal.com]

I'd like to add that IrinaWylder (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/irinawylder) is another one of Ariin's accounts, for his alternate fursona.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

How do you know?

We just need proof here on AB, since sometimes people get mistaken for others.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

I love the part where they say they feel like they're being personally attacked because the 'mistakes' they're seeing are all in their character
Wow way to get way too personal about it? The world doesn't revolve around an artist's client. Golly.

[enter-data-here.livejournal.com]

Seems a bit messy on both ends, but he really should have been the one to take the reins on approval and not his friend - seems a lot of this could have just been avoided had he done so. Not your fault on that one. He seems overly sensitive though. While I understand his issues with the transaction/image, I didn't appreciate the little passive-aggressive barbs, especially toward your skill level. There was no need to get nasty about it.

I think you handled this very well, especially by admitting your mistakes and trying to fix them. I'm sorry it didn't work out between you two, hopefully both of you learned something. (For him, make sure to be more detailed and take things less personally.)

Not blocking, but he definitely deserves this beware.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Oh definitely. There's a few things I'm going to be doing differently in future commissions.

One thing I'm a little unsure about though, should I not allow someone to give another permission for approvals, even if they are in the image? This would stop this from happening, but I've also had no issues before and it's worked great over the years. It can also be difficult to wait for a very long time if the person is going to be gone long.

And yes, I would have had no problem fixing things if it was brought up better then this, they are my mistakes after all. Even better if I could have been told before finishing though. But I just honestly didn't think he'd be happy with me fixing only the things that were my mistakes.

[tropicalblaze.livejournal.com]

I don't think this person understands the meaning of giving a sketch approval. If he had so many issues with it, why didn't he speak up then? He did say the sketch stage was the last stage he had say in, did he think the artist could magically read his mind and draw all that without telling them?

I applaud you for going above and beyond for this person when I'm sure some of us would have said no unless more money was provided.

[pekoeko.livejournal.com]

Does anyone have a screencap of the journal posted? I went to look, but apparently he's deleted it, or at least I could not find it. I feel like that too, would be great evidence of his type of behavior to warn artists of his childish backlash.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

http://zenia.unixdaemons.com/ariin.png

It is here.

[10thdoktor.livejournal.com]

witnesses say the livejournal user was quoted to say, "HUWHAHH??" before their head exploded, more detail at 11

edit; okay now that my head is no longer reeling from the giant lists of things they found wrong with the initial picture

i mean, i can understand a couple of their points- like the mess and the lighting. but really? asian eyes (which as an asian i find incredibly racist, oval eyes automatically = asian? on an ANIMAL?), too-square knuckles, binky dimensions?

WHA...