I really need advice please

[miimichi.livejournal.com]

This is my first post here, I comment sometimes, though I usually just lurk. I really just want your opinion/advice here before I decided on anything. It may not even be a valid beware, which is why I'm here asking.

I opened for $5 sketches, this person grabbed a slot, and they sent an echeck as payment.


Now I've /never/ had any problems with echecks clearing so I really didn't think I'd have a problem this time. Well I went ahead and did their sketch and they loved it, even colored it. Now yesterday, the 14th, I got an email saying that the echeck failed. I contacted said person about it and they told me this wasn't the first time this had happened. They also told me they're not sure why it failed because they had enough to send it, but paypal wouldn't let them send it until they added more money. So they asked if there was anything else they could give me in exchange and I said no. I then asked if there was perhaps someone else that could send me the money until they get it worked out and again they said no. With pretty large medical/dental debt over my head I really need every penny.

A little bit later they replied saying that they tried to send it again and they got charged a fee and lost $70 and told me to please let them sort out their "financial bullsh*t". They said that this wasn't their fault because they didn't know this would happen. Which I got kind of confused because they said this wasn't the first time this had happened, but okay, I understand things happen sometimes. So the next reply I get from them is some long story about the last time it happened and their current family/money issues with this bit added to the end "I'm sorry I can't send you 5$ for a picture but my life is falling apart."

I proceeded to reply with how I was sorry their life was falling apart, but it wasn't really fair to me nor did it really concern me because I did the work they paid for, but in the end I don't even get paid. And maybe they shouldn't commission people if their life is falling apart and they don't even have money to spend. At this current point all they keep doing is cursing at me and getting angry. They also mentioned that all of this has happened in two days.


I think it's important to mention that I'm not friends with this person, this was all just a business transaction and nothing more. I've never even spoken with them before this commission took place or after, or at least up until now.

Now what I want to ask about it, is should I just count my losses and move on? I mean it's only $5, but still. Or should I post a beware so other people can just watch out of this person? Either way I'm out $5 so it doesn't matter, but if this isn't the first time it's happened, it could happen again.

This was definitely a lesson learned either way.



Thank you in advance!

Comments

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Honestly, if the customer hasn't paid you AND is being belligerent and pitching a fit...then yes, I think that's a valid beware.

If they are so insistent on not giving the small amount they owe you, then certainly I'd make it known they are a dead-beat-buyer and may be inclined to rip off other artists.

E-checks are annoying for me, because they look like payment has been made but in truth it's just holding the funds until they clear. So it forces me to wait to work on the image - I put a No-Echeck clause in my TOS because of this. (I had several customers try and get art before it cleared, very scammy!) So next time if you accept one, definitely wait until payment has cleared!

[fuzzwolfie.livejournal.com]

This sounds really bad. I would definitely like a full beware. I'm sorry this happened to you!

Can you open up a paypal dispute still? I would do so immediately. It doesn't matter if you charged $5 or $500...you still didn't get paid for your work.

[chickadoggy.livejournal.com]

Yeah I'm with the other 2...definitely make a beware. There's nothing about this that doesnt send up a red flag to me

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I would beware them. You were out $5, and that's still money that is owed to you. You could also potentially keep someone from being out far more than $5.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

If it was a true one-off incident, they'd be trying to get you yoir funds immediately, not shooting off excuses or getting angry at you. Red flags everywhere, so this is beware material.

[teacup-werewolf.livejournal.com]

Yeah my instincts tell me that this feels really scammy.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

I'd say post a beware and in future, wait for echecks to clear before starting any work.

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

this. always wait for them to clear

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

I agree with the others-dispute this through Paypal if you can, and post a beware. Even if there was an unexpected problem on their end, that doesn't excuse belligerent behavior and that's not someone I'd want to do business with.

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

Yikes, if they're as bad as you say they are a beware is warranted for sure. 5 bucks or 500 bucks, it's still money you're owed for your services!

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

Post a beware! It isn't that the eCheck failed or about the amount, it's that they're being rude and show signs of monkey business.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I'd say post them as a beware so other artists know them by name and let them get a tag in the community.

[kaelstra.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a full beware to me. They not only didn't pay you, but got nasty and are cursing you out because of it? Definitely a bad customer people need to avoid. All over $5, too? Ugh.

I'm sorry you went through that.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

An Echeque for $5 kind of sounds a bit dodgey from the start. I've had a couple of people pay me with echeques but it's always been for a large amount i.e above £50 so it makes sense they want a little time to move funds about etc. If someone doesn't have $5 available at the start, that's not the best sign.

I think the usual advice for future is the usual "don't work until actually paid" or "watermark work until paid" tips.

As for the situation, they haven't ignored you (yet) which is the usual scam trick. Though taking the stress of their life out on you isn't on and I think from the summery of your responses the points have been fair. It night be worth having a look at the comisher's favs, seeing if they've comished anyone else and contacting the artist to see if they've had a similar problem.

If you're not able to resolve the situation, the person starts ignoring you or continues to be abusive then a beware is warranted, even if it's just a warning not to do work until paid by the person.

[gen.livejournal.com]

I'll chime in.

It's simple. You performed a service with the expectation of payment. You were not paid. Thus, you were robbed.

File a claim.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

If it's "only $5" all the more reason they should be able to find a way to pay it if they really wanted to :P
Yes I think a full beware is warrented if they don't stop giving you 'tude and start giving you a payment plan

[miimichi.livejournal.com]

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions, I appreciate it! As for waiting for echecks to clear before starting work, well that's a lesson learned.

It seems that she still intends to pay me, she said I'd have my money in three days, now why she felt the need to tell me all about her personal problems is beyond me. She could have just as easily told me that I'd have my money in a few days and I would have understood, but okay. None the less I'll keep this updated. If she never pays me I'll most likely make the beware, if she does pay me then I'll probably just let it go.


Edit: Though if you guys think I should still make the beware because of how she was acting, then I'll go ahead with it.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

I think you should, please, make the beware for her behavior.

It's not okay to curse at an artist like that! D:

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

That behavior definitely sounds beware worthy and as a member of the mod team I'd happily look over your post if you wished to privately show details and have it 'evaluated' etc before submitting it to our queue.

[miimichi.livejournal.com]

When you mean details, do you mean like all the screen shots, or just make out the whole post and show it to you before submitting it?

[miimichi.livejournal.com]

I went ahead and submitted it, though I did forget to add a cut to it.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

This ain't gonna be a popular opinion but if they pay you within the stated timeframe I'd say do not post a public beware, unless

a) dealing with this was so bad you'd never work with them again or

b) you have other reason to think this is a recurring behavior
(vs someone who's still learning to manage money and accidentally overdrew something then freaked out on you - which I will readily concede is not something that most people will mess up on even once and I feel it's a personal style choice how hard to be on them for that), also

c) of course if they don't pay you in 3 days it is time to post the beware, let them know about it, and tell them they can make themselves look better by owning up to it and paying you, and that it will then be marked as resolved

My logic behind this is customer relations - no don't let customers abuse you but of course if you'd be willing to take this person's business again (provided they actually pay you) and/or business of people like them then you probably don't want to call them out publicly.

Naturally this is all moot if they don't meet their new deadline - post away in that case! (lol did I say that enough?! )

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

Wait a tick, if this person has a paypal, why didn't they just use that? Surely it has to be simpler than an echeque? Idk anything about echeques, though, my bank doesn't do those.

My life is falling apart too, but I don't unload the gory detail on an artist I've commissioned who isn't already a good friend. Even if they are, I talk to them about personal things outside of the actual transaction.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Echeck is through Paypal. Instead of pulling the money straight from your bank account, Paypal pays via an echeck which has to clear from your bank.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

If this was through paypal (kinda?,) can't you get them to help you out? Five bucks isn't a huge amount of money, but you've done the work and deserve payment.

[mgsfriedchicken.livejournal.com]

DO A BEWARE. This person sounds like bad news and people should know.

[green fawks (from livejournal.com)]

Hey, I'm Thera's boyfriend. Just so you all know, she isn't lying, nor does she have any intention of stealing from this person. Paypal has a long time history of being a company that slams people with hundreds in NSF fees over little mistakes. The fact is that she went from fine to very negative in this bank account (the one linked to her paypal) due to errors on the bank and paypal's parts. Because these issues often take weeks to work out, there's no guarantee she will have her paypal up in time to sate your thirst for blood. If you haven't heard of these issues before, refer to www.paypalsucks.com for some horror stories. Now, back to the issue at hand. She's been trying to make some money by doing streams, but you likely shot yourself in the foot by not waiting until you were certain you wouldn't get your money because now people are avoiding her streams she made in attempt to get your money because of these posts on this site. Now, when she DOES pay you, all the fine people here who you mislead by jumping the gun over a crisis we are having (which she was honest to you about because she is in tears about not being able to draw and buy and sell art) will continue to ostracize her and have her tagged as a thief. So, thank you for that. Don't worry, you'll get your pound of flesh. I will personally see to it that you receive your 500 cents in full as soon as possible. I wasn't fully aware of this issue until now, but I intend to end it.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Once a situation is resolved, we mark it resolved. No one has called your girlfriend a thief, and I highly recommend the both of you take a peek at the following document we've made for those featured on Artists Beware: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/494658.html

Being featured here is not a death sentence. I am the moderator who approved the post, and I did so not only because of the money situation, but because of the behavior of Thera.

I recommend you take a step back before breaking any community rules and making yourself look hasty and foolish.

[green fawks (from livejournal.com)]

Point is, her being featured here prevented her from making money and paying the person back. That's all.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I highly doubt that this post has affected her business. Not everyone on the internet reads Artists_Beware. Nevertheless, you are coming in as an emotionally charged 3rd party and not improving the situation.

A calm explanation from the person in question on her post would do better.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Not that it would matter if it had or hadn't. She could always apologize and fix the problem instead of having her boyfriend come in guns ablazing. People are making their decision to avoid her based on her behaviour on display, not because AB told them not to.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This is an advice post. Thera's name was not dropped here yil you yourself outed her in here.

And unless Thera magically lost all of her queue in the what? Two three hours before the actual beware was approved... Shenanigans and histrionics.

Don't put these exaggeraions out there. Helps no one especially her.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Sate our thirst for blood? How incredibly, ridiculously overdramatic.