Buyer Beware: Thera

[miimichi.livejournal.com]

I originally came here seeking advice on the situation, which can be seen here, but it was suggested that I still make the beware because of said person's behavior.

This is my first actual beware post, so I apologize if it's done incorrectly.


WHO: Thera


WHERE: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/thera/ Though everything happened here on this journal.


WHAT: One digital sketch.
Here's screen shots of our initial conversation when she first ordered the sketch. Though everything can still be read in the journal I linked above.
This is the finished commission.


WHEN: November 6th, 2012 until now.


PROOF: This is the paypal screenshot showing when she initially sent the eheck. 
This is the screenshot showing that the echeck failed to send.

I sent her a note about the failed echeck asking if she could send it again or perhaps have someone else do it for her.
She did reply to my note, which can be seen here, but she also commented on the original commission journal where the transaction took place. All of it can still be read in the journal linked above, but here are screenshots anyways.


EXPLAIN: I hope it's alright if I just copy/paste from my advice journal, if not I can edit it.

On November 6th, 2012 I opened for $5 sketch commissions and Thera wanted a slot. So we work out all the details, got everything settled and agreed upon. There was a slight bit of confusion on what she wanted at first, but we got that all worked out with no problems. She sent the payment, it was an echeck, and I started her commission. I finished it the next day and she was very happy with it. She even colored it and did a wonderful job at doing so. Now I've /never/ had any problems with echecks clearing so I really didn't think I'd have a problem this time. So like I stated, I did her sketch and finished it the next day. Now on the 14th, of this month, I got an email saying that the echeck failed. I sent a note to Thera asking if she could send it again or maybe have someone else send it for her. She replied saying she wasn't sure why it failed, but this was the second time it happened. She also told me that she wasn't sure why it failed because she had enough to send it, but paypal wouldn't let her send it until she added more money. So she asked me if there was anything else she could give me in exchange and I said no. With pretty large medical/dental debt over my head I really need every penny.

A little while later she replied saying that she tried to send it again, got charged a fee, lost $70, and told me to please let her sort out her "financial bullsh*t". She said that this wasn't her fault because she didn't know this would happen. Which I got kind of confused by because she said this wasn't the first time this had happened, but okay, I understand that things happen sometimes. So the next reply I got from her is a story explaining about the last time it happened and her current family/money issues.

I proceeded to reply with how I was sorry that her life was falling apart, but it wasn't really fair to me nor did it really concern me because I did the work they paid for, but in the end I didn't get paid. And that maybe she shouldn't commission people if her life is falling apart and she doesn't have money to spend.

Honestly at this point I'm trying to be understanding, but it's kind of hard because she's dumping all her life problems on me and they don't concern me. I don't even know her on a personal level. The first time I talked to her was when this transaction started and I haven't contacted her or talked to her up until now. Now from this point on she starts getting kind of nasty with me. She's getting angry/frustrated and keeps using vulgar language towards me when I've been trying to be as calm as possible. Maybe I came off as cold hearted or something, I'm not sure. I mean I do feel bad for her, because honestly it sucks when crap goes down hill, I know, but I've always heard that business transactions should be kept as such.

None the less, she tells me that all of this has happened in two days. So I go on to tell her again that I am sorry that her life is falling apart, but it doesn't concern me and she really has no reason to be so angry at me. She says she's not angry at me, that she's just upset in general, which is understandable, but really she shouldn't be taking it out on me. She should calm down and think about it before taking frustrations out on someone else. She has yet to respond to my last comment though.


I was originally just going to accept the loss and just take it as a lessoned learned, but she says she still intends to pay me. She said I'd have my money in three days, but we'll see. I won't hold my breathe or anything though.



I hope that's okay, I'm not very good at explaining things. D:
I can edit anything as necessary.

EDIT as of November 21th, 2012: I received a payment from taasla paying in place of Thera. I really appreciate it, so thank you again!
I guess this can be marked as resolved then.

Comments

[amocin.livejournal.com]

Dear god... Thank you for posting this, just seeing her rant is enough to turn a person away. You kept yourself very calm and collected even though, as you even mentioned, her personal life had nothing to do with your transaction. TMI on her part. Beware well warranted.


Also, I hope I am not the only one, but I got the strangest feeling while reading her rant that she may have been trying to pull a pity card so you can tell her not to worry about paying you.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's the same vibe I got. =\

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Nope. Not dealing with them. Thank you for posting this so I can block them. I fail to see how it's your fault or why you should care if someone managed to overdraft their bank account due to their own poor spending.

My favorite part is where she tells you not to take it personally. Um, you're the one they owe money to, I am not sure how you're not supposed to take it personally??

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

Vile behavior to say the very least and thank you for the beware!
If you don't get that payment, I'd send a request to the FA admins to have them take down the picture on her main ID.. since she hadn't paid for it.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

Also.. did you allow her to color it? It looks like she's edited the image at least twice now and I'm not sure if you gave her permission to do that.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

Oh. Um.

<_<; Hm. That makes me feel awkward as an onlooker. I would feel way more awkward and likely annoyed if I were you. You handled that better than I would have. I'm fairly sure.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

I don't know exactly how the echeck system works, but if it says that the payment is cancelled, wouldn't that suggest that the sender had cancelled it rather than it being rejected or failing to go through? I'd have thought it would say 'rejected' or 'bounced' if there was a problem with the cheque itself.

[tartii.livejournal.com]

Exactly what I am thinking. I would think paypal would say it had failed, not that it was canceled. Canceled indicates she withdrew it.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

All I can say is wow. Life issues happen and I can't fault her for that, however none of these personal crises she had are your fault so it didn't need to be made into your business. If finances are so screwy then don't waste your cash on luxuries, bottom line.

I'm a bit baffled by the fact that she took such an awful attitude with you, you definitely came off as being very reasonable over the whole thing while she pitched a fit at you over things that weren't your problem.

[tyrano-tiggs.livejournal.com]

I'm a tad confused...one day her parents are wiring her money to squander at the mall and the next they have to file bankruptcy over a $400 charge? Obligatory "well that escalated quickly" macro needs inserting somewhere in this post

[green fawks (from livejournal.com)]

Her parents have been in financial difficulties for years, but we had no idea that when her mom went to cash her cheque the bank would eat it whole. it wasn't even OUR bank. It was a total mixup that cost my girlfriend $400, has plagued this entire month for us, lost her friends and credibility over this issue. Nobody here has even an inkling of sympathy. I understand that art commissions are a cutthroat business rife with fraud, but I have already assured this person they will be paid in full, even twice as much as the original 5$ for her inconvenience. Be glad this isn't an actual theft case, not that she will ever regain her credibility after this.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

anyone grab screen shots of the journal before all the comments were hidden?

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

They are linked in the post.

[phoenixsrequiem.livejournal.com]

As far as I understand, the only way an e-check fails is if there is insufficient funds. Insufficient funds would explain the $70 dollar charge from the bank, but in NO WAY is that YOUR issue.

[therapup.livejournal.com]

And that's what happened. I was short a few vents. It's her issue in the sense that now she has to wait a bit for the payment. Not that big of a deal.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

If you go to her userpage, she has a flip out at the top of her profile about how you're going to get your money. :/ That's mature.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

You happen to screen shot it? Her profile is all blank now except her commissions and faves and one wall post x.x

[purpule.livejournal.com]

I call utter bullshit. The check was clearly cancelled on her end, and the angry "my life is over" antics are a way to get you to back down.

[green fawks (from livejournal.com)]

You are wrong. By the way, if I was going to rip people off in the furry fandom (as it is extremely easy to do) I wouldn't do it with $5 worth of art at a time. This is a perfect storm of shit that means this person will likely have to wait for their payment. But I guarantee she gets it. Don't you think that if she had a history of ripping people off you would have hear it before? She has a long history of being a user of FA and doing and buying commissions without an issue. Things just went sour this time.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but I'm getting a shitthatdidnthappen.txt vibe from her bankruptcy sob story. Along with the "cancelled" rather than "failed" payment and the fact she's still editing the art anyway, and is completely unapologetic and unembarassed (as most people would be)...this stinks.

:V - Hey honey have some $$$ to spend at the mall!
:C - I am a bad manager of money who kept getting overdrawn so the bank took all of my mall moneys mom and dad
:V - That's okay honey because we're bad money managers too and just realised we need to file for bankruptcy tomorrow and will lose our home. Never saw that coming!

[green fawks (from livejournal.com)]

It's still hilarious/sad to me that people will gang up and nobody has issued a single "Well, wait and see what happens" to this person. She doesn't live with her mother, she's lived with me on her own for a year. How will you all feel when I pay her? Her story is true, but also much too long to explain in one of these posts. The fact is that mass amounts of money were taken from her (an entire paycheck) when her mother cashed it for her bank, and collections agencies that have nothing to do with us took her money. She had every intention of paying her, and now she is losing artist credibility, friends and participation in the fandom she loves because people think this is somehow her fault.

[starinthegutter.livejournal.com]

"Yesterday I asked my mom to etransfer me 70$ to my bank account so I would have spending money at the mall"

Wow, life is hard!

It kinda takes time to fall into so much financial disarray- enough to file for bankruptcy that is... not just a span of two days- I'm pretty sure if her sob story was actually true, her mom wouldn't have had $70 to front her to spend it at a MALL, of all places. Come on.

Thanks for the beware, well warranted and I will not be doing business with this person.

[therapup.livejournal.com]

The 70$ was from my 375$ paycheck. It got eaten up by the fees when it was transferred into my account and the rest was eaten by my mom's bank account. My family has been in debt for years now and it's coming to a point where bankruptcy is being considered.


I'll post a screen shot of my bank transaction history when I get home to my computer to clear up any misunderstandings.

It shows I took out 5$ on three separate occasions. 10$ of that was for the last commission I got from Baka-Akuma and the other 5$ was for VanillaCrepe, but with PayPal fees that I didn't actually know about(I'm new to PayPal and just made an account only a few months ago)I was charged NSF twice, so the 70$ I wanted in my account to spend some on food at the mall then put money into my PayPal was taken. Then yeah, the rest of my money was taken from my mom's bank account along with whatever money she had. I still have to pay 13$ and some cents on my bank account to cover the rest of my fees but I'm getting paid this Friday so I'll have money again in a few days. Until then I have nothing.


I closed my PayPal account after all this and I'll end up using my boyfriend's again like I used to and now that I have learned this I can fix my mistakes. I've bought several commissions before this one and the payments went through just fine, but this was different and it was only because of a few cents that the payment didn't go through.

Also over the last few days when I haven't been working and when I've had access to the computer I've been trying to do livestreams to take a commission and to pay her back, but just my luck no one goes to the streams. I wait at least an hour before shutting it down but yeah, so far no one is interested. I've even tried some pony streams for people on MLPchan and such and still, nothing. I'm going to try again tonight but I can't be sure anyone will come

I've been doing my best to resolve the situation, i even got my more sane level-headed boyfriend to try and explain what's been going on, but no one seems to want to listen to him and instead want to just be all grumpy and critical of the situation.

My FA is blank because I'm leaving the fandom.

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

She sounds like she's under the age of 18, or at least doesn't know a lick about saving/spending money. And her behavior/responses to the artist are inexcusable.

Beware well warranted.

(frozen)

[theblackdragon.livejournal.com]

i like how 'green fawks' goes back and forth between pronoun sets.

(frozen)

[therapup.livejournal.com]

I like how this comment isn't relevant to the beware and is a personal attack of sorts.

Back off and keep on topic.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

I find it hilarious she's using a colored version of it as her ID, as if it belongs to her or something.

[therapup.livejournal.com]

I did actually pay for it but the payment didn't go through SO I've been trying to fix the situation beat I can but of course soon isn't soon enough.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Beware well warranted. Their attitude there and HERE is atrocious. They clearly have no understanding of what their rights are to the image they seem to have 'tried to pay for' by uploading and editing it. Yeesh.

[therapup.livejournal.com]

I asked permission to edit it and the payment failed so I'm getting money to resend it. I don't see the problem. I'm cooperating as best I can.

[miimichi.livejournal.com]

I haven't been online in the past few days, so I've asked her to take down the artwork until it's paid for. I had to leave a comment on her page because it seems she has disabled the note feature. Even though it did work the other day.

I took a screenshot just in case she just deletes it.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1723/booop.png

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9200021/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9200094/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9200149/

She has this image posted in her gallery three times. I have them linked here for your convenience.

[therapup.livejournal.com]

HERE YOU ARE you insufferable vultures. Mother dearest repayed me the money that she lost not even 5 minutes ago.

http://www.imgur.com/D6eBN.jpg

Please allow 5-7 business days for the transactions to clear and for the payment to be sent.

Also, I'm not the only one here that needs an attitude check. Holier-than-thou attitude is at least twice as bad as how much of an asshole I typically am. Especially when this was an honest mistake with no ill-intent, I just fucked up royally in how I told her what was going on. Didn't think that was enough to be crucified by your critiques.

/Furries/

VanillaCrepe, how much money do you want? 5$, 10$, 15$, 20$, name your price. Whatever you want.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

You're basically just confirming everything that people have said here, by this post alone.

Good job.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

Wow.

This probably would've been able to blow over a lot easier if the person in question would just lose the victim mentality.

Life is hard, things happen. That doesn't mean you have to air out your dirty laundry for everyone to see, and that doesn't mean that you have to play the "WAAAHHH MY LIFE IS SO HARD" card when people call you out on poor behavior.

[therapup.livejournal.com]

WOULD you kindly stop with these replies? I'm not getting on with a victims complex I'm EXPLAINING WHY and at the same time FIXING what I did wrong by trying to take commissions and going to my job. But hey, mom gave me back my money so it's all good.

You just completely misunderstand everything that's gone on.

Yes, I'm an overly emotional bitch of a person that freaks out when things go awry, but I have the best of intentions 100% of the time and I think it's wrong of you to assume anything but that.

(frozen)

[therapup.livejournal.com]

And for the record, no. I am not a bad person to accept a commission from. Just ask Skulldog, Baka-Akuma, or anyone else I've commissioned in the past.

This is a one time thing and the post was not needed.

(frozen)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

That's enough.

[pekoeko.livejournal.com]

Eesh. I was wondering when name-dropping of previous commissions would start....

That aside, sugar, we are not 'insufferable vultures'. I've read, re-read, and then read again every comment on this page to check everyone's attitude and the only one with sour grapes here is you. There are a FEW instances of a little high and mighty preaching, but for the most part, this community is pretty impartial and moderately tempered.

I WOULD LIKE TO PUT OUT THERE NOBODY IS QUESTIONING YOUR HARD TIMES AND THAT IT IS A HORRIBLE SITUATION. I am truly sorry if these things are factual, and that everything snowballed away from you and your mom. Banks tend to do that, which sucks but life goes on unfortunately. It's great you're trying to pay her in a timely manner.

It doesn't negate the fact that in a business where fraud is prevalent that the OP isn't entitled to worry about payment/use of art she made without payment. But honestly, that's not the thing that everyone's getting upset about, or it doesn't appear that way predominantly.

The thing that people are getting upset over/saying this warrants a beware is your personal attitude. Your unprofessionalism as a customer over a business transaction makes other artists not want to work with you. Artists are just as entitled to refuse to work with difficult/high-strung customers as customers are entitled to refuse art from a bitchy artist even if their work/previous reputation is MOSTLY good.

In all reality, your life story/what was happening to you, while unfortunate, was an inappropriate way to respond. It's nobody's business but yours, your boyfriend, your family, and perhaps a few close friends you need to vent to about the situation. Certainly not something you explain in detail to either a business partner nor an online community who is not disputing your intent to try and make good on your debt to the artist, but on your attitude.

Also, if you read the previous advice post, the OP didn't want to post you here for the five bucks/financial woes. They simply wanted advice on how to deal with your outlandish behavior properly and professionally. Community members ASKED for a beware post, so that they may steer clear of a potential client that comes with issues. You've proven everyone right by coming and losing your temper immensely.

Again, I'm sorry things have been hard for you, truly I am, and I'll offer prayers for your family like I do most hard knock situations, but that doesn't excuse that this is a business transaction and you acted unprofessionally both to the artist and the people who were trying to point out what the REAL problem was for you, so you WOULDN'T have this issue again and end up on here again in the future for 'losing your temper and having a bad day' again.

Also, calling people 'insufferable vultures' who 'crucify' you makes other kids not want to play in the sandbox with you.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

The thing that people are getting upset over/saying this warrants a beware is your personal attitude. Your unprofessionalism as a customer over a business transaction makes other artists not want to work with you. Artists are just as entitled to refuse to work with difficult/high-strung customers as customers are entitled to refuse art from a bitchy artist even if their work/previous reputation is MOSTLY good.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

eta: whoops, fixed the html bork!

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

That escalated quickly lol. +1 blocked. Sorry but emotions/life issues/your own personal problems and work transactions don't mix.

If I walked into a McD's and starting rampaging on the cashier about how my car just ran out of gas, and I'm so stressed over my finances and that I just am so high strung with my life, and then proceed to order and my card declines and my burger is sitting right in front of me. Guess what? Cashier is going to look at me and take that burger away until I hand them the cash for it. Doesn't matter if I'm the worst off person in that building. A business transaction is just that. Nothing more, nothing less.

Next time you have issues such as this, don't drag your life long woes into it, tell the artist, payment should be on the way and leave it at that. Live and learn.

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

... Wow. Just wow.

It's not often a commissioner leaves me speechless, but just, yikes. Where do Thera and Green Fawkes even get off thinking this sort of attitude is acceptable? Thera's behavior in the OP's screencaps were bad enough, but this just dumped a whooole lot of "Do-Not-Want" icing on an already very unpleasant cake. Also not sure what the artist name-dropping is supposed to be doing for her in this case? Now she's just trying to drag other artists down with her as shields for her and her boyfriend's atrocious behaviour.

Beware very well warranted, especially after these comments. All this talk about personal attacks and crucifixion and vultures, blatantly ignoring the fact that this is about her piss-poor attitude and not over "just $5" really just paints Thera as the type of person I don't see any artist ever wanting to deal with. :/

[sintocat.livejournal.com]

Holy moly - I checked only like two days ago and there were 20 comments - now there are 100+.

The commissioner, Thera, shot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly. And then set it on fire for good measure. She just can't see what the issue is. It's not about the $5 check failing, these things happen, it's the way you handled it. Stomping on the ground and throwing leaves in the air when people are trying to help you is NOT the way to solve an issue.

I can only hope she learns something form all of this - but for my own sake I'll never, ever, accept a commission from her. :/