Commissioner Beware: Touya_Vulpes

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

WHO: I am an artist that goes by Ritz_Bitz on FA. I was commissioned by Touya_Vulpes on FA.

WHERE: During my livestream art session.

WHAT: I was livestreaming $10 shaded headshots done traditionally. People could have them laminated and mailed for $1 more. He was the first to order and got his art that night. 2 days later, on December 5th, I recieved an email that the funds were on hold and I needed to take action in the resolution center. I responded saying "He got his art that night, its intangible goods but he has the file already so I cannot offer a refund". Today, the 19th, I got an email saying the payment was reversed and given back to him. Turns out I'm not covered as a seller of goods unless the item is shipped, so he was able to make a claim he never recieved it and I lost my case because I couldn't ship this intangible good.

WHEN: Livestream took place on December 3rd and he recieved his art the same night.

PROOF:





EXPLAIN: When the hold was placed, I was confused but figured something wasnt verified with his account or such. I didn't contact him at this point, I answered the case in the resolution center and waited. Today I got an email that the payment was reversed, and I saw that the $10 had been sent back to him from my account. Upset and irritated, I noted him about it and he said "Oh I've been having issues with paypal for the past couple weeks. I don't know what it is." I told him he needed to resend the money or I was gonna delete the art and go through paypal for a resolution. He acted slightly irritated, saying "*sigh* fine just delete the art". I already completed the work, so obviously I wanted to be paid for it. I called paypal and spoke with their customer service.
It turns out he filed the claim that he never got what he paid for, and I had no defense with it being 'intangible goods' that I did not ship. This is why I lost the case.


I DID get my money back, however I am extremely displeased with the way the commissioner acted, trying to get his money AND have the art. He has been blacklisted now and I have changed my commission policy to having all the work I do shipped out so I can protect myself.

Comments

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Approved, but could you please either turn your screencaps into links or insert an LJ-cut (http://www.livejournal.com/support/faq/75.html) into the body of your post?

Thank you.

Mod Note: Do not make "cut this plz" comments.

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

Can you tell me how? I'm still learning the site x3

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

oop, nevermind found it. ill fix it now

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

Ohhh nope. Blocking. That is just really horrible behavior. I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, no. Thank you for this warning. I've blocked him.

[copper-curls.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the warning; definitely blocking him.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Blocked. I don't understand why people think this is acceptable behavior, let alone lie about it. I'm glad FA and AB are working together now, because if this pattern continues his membership should probably be revoked.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

...I'm kind of confused how it's intangible goods? You said you were doing them traditionally. If you took a picture of what you drew and showed it to them with a link that he gave you, shouldn't that be tangible? And if you posted a journal about how they would only be shipped for the extra buck, linked that.

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

Art is considered intangible cause you can't physically hold it. In this case, all he got was a file. He did not want it to be sent to him so he didn't pay for shipping.

The info about $1 more was in my stream submission, which I deleted after the stream ended :c

[snapcat.livejournal.com]

This is not a chargeback. There is information missing in the seller's account but from the looks of it, it is a failed bank payment. It looks like the artist received an instant payment then the payment was reversed 2 days later. To me it looks like insufficient funds on the buyer's end. There is no way to file a chargeback 2 days after a payment is made. Paypal will not allow it. I worked for PayPal for 3 years in the fraud department so I know what I am talking about.
If there was actually a case with a case number, she could have taken a screen shot of the resolution center with the case ID number which would clearly show if it was a Dispute or a Chargeback. Since this was not done, thats why I can only deduce that it was insufficient funds on the buyer's end.

[blaze-ignitus.livejournal.com]

There's a very significant caveat to that though: the OP was informed by PayPal that the person filed a claim that he never received the goods and thus a reversal was made. This was not a case of insufficient funds. This was a deliberate attempt to commit fraud against the OP. The commissioner lied to PayPal stating they never received goods when they did. They filed a claim. The commissioner was greedy, wanting both the art and money.

To quote Gene Wilder: "it's all there, black and white, clear as crystal!"

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

I've seen Paypal still give a seller funds in the case of ISF on the buyer's side, if the buyer has backup funding options that are connected to a checking account. The buyer just ends up getting spanked with a banking fee unless Paypal's changed things from when I witnessed this happen.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Would you happen to know why they issue an investigation if it would be a case of ISF? It seems kind of odd to do that.

(frozen comment)

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't art be covered if you marked "services" rather than "goods"? (in the case of digital or un-shipped art)

(frozen comment)

[ashleyvsdestiny.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't get how it's 'intangable'. It's not like PayPay is never used to pay for SERVICES as well as goods. I'm really puzzled how this 'intangable' thing works and no one on AB has ever reported issues like that.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Le blocked.

Not sure why he said he wasn't commissioning after you, unless he meant you specifically? Because he has plenty of commissioned work in his gallery and I doubt he'll never get another piece ever again. Makes me wonder how much of that is paid for though.

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

sorry for the late reply.

I told him "you shouldn't be buying art from people if you already know your account 'has an issue'" and he said basically "I'm not buying art from anyone else either until i figure this out" yet there were transactions timestamped after mine of him buying more art.

[lem0ntrees.livejournal.com]

I've always paid for non-shipped art as Services instead of Goods to avoid problems like this.

[amocin.livejournal.com]

Pretty much this. If its not marked as Services, then it asks me to ship something, and so the commissioner can always say that it was never shipped... with Digital art... not much to ship there.

So an easy way to avoid this mess is to always request that they mark it as Services. If you get their payment and there is a ship request next to it in PP, refund it and ask them to do it again properly.

[draekaar draconigenae (from livejournal.com)]

I call bull on being unable to prove shipment. If you sent it by email, you have proof that you sent it by screen-capping the email. Manymanymanymany things are transacted through paypal that are "intangible goods", any groupon for example, or a steam game. Are they going to tell steam that they have no way of proving that the game was sent to the user? of course not, they have transfer logs, and it's a huge fsking company.

If you ask me, art shouldn't be an exception. I could go to paypal right now and say I didn't receive $25 in steam money the other day when I paid for it. Or, someone could say they didn't receive their farmville cash on facebook. I'm sorry, but they gave you a completely stupid reply.

[sushidragon.livejournal.com]

A few years ago I was on the losing end of a chargeback despite providing screenshots of communication from the buyer that they received the (digital) item and were happy with it. I didn't have an all-powerful tracking number and so according to them I had no proof the item had been sent. I then received more messages from the buyer gloating that they had received the item and their money back. It was infuriating.

[lainmokoto.livejournal.com]

Blocked, thank you for the heads up!

[shinmaxwell.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the heads up..blocked!

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Okay the Paypal shenanigans aside,

A) Buyer still seemed flippant over this as the OP had approach them for an explanation.

B) Everyone in this community is very familiar with the excuse of "issues with paypal" and its usually code for "scammer".

[bazeelphooka.livejournal.com]

We are taking steps to investigate this matter on Fur Affinity. I cannot give details, but I assure you I will do what I can to ensure this is not a habit with the user.

[blaze-ignitus.livejournal.com]

OP, you stated "it turns out he filed the claim that he never got what he paid for." Do you have any screenshots of Paypal informing you that the commissioner filed a claim stating as such? This would cement your argument without question

[scribdoodles.livejournal.com]

She said she called them about the issue and they told her that he filed the charge back. There isn't a screenshot of this lol

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

WTF? Usually when someone purchases a DIGITAL item through Paypal, Paypal refuses to send them a refund. It's always been in their TOS that you cannot file/win a dispute on a digital item.

Although technically, he's paying for your skill, not the file itself. You provided your services, so they shouldn't be able to refund it either way. :P

I guess Paypal changed their TOS since last I looked, or just doesn't give any shits (as usual).

[bazeelphooka.livejournal.com]

OP, Have you gotten any contact back from this user recently, trying to make things right?

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

nope, no further contact from him. It doesn't look like hes responding to ANYONE that he did this too for the last couple weeks.

Suspension

[bazeelphooka.livejournal.com]

This user has been suspended from Fur Affinity as of 30Dec2012, due to chargebacks on multiple commissions from multiple artists. They state that their card has been reported as stolen, and that Paypal will fix it. They will once again be allowed to use FA after settling with the artists they have not paid.

Thank you very much for the information.

Re: Suspension

[ritz-bitz25.livejournal.com]

thank you for the update.

It's hard for me to believe the 'stolen' thing after all this though.... if someone stole his card, why would they buy art of HIS character under his FA name?

Unless he meant that they were issuing the chargebacks themselves, in which case.... can't he just reverse them?