the art or the artist

[kuwaizair.livejournal.com]

so I don't mess up anyone else's posts I will come with an inquandry.

I am asking you, the artists beware community this.

even if someone is a good business person, good artist, is it good/ok/right/best to aviod someone or tell others to hate them and their work over their persnality.

take an instance of me and fighting. people don't like my work and myself because I fight, or I tell disney-knock off artists they ""aren't artists"" (aka like a good art school is going to look at your portfolio with awe and amazement when its full of your purple lioness fursona hugging your favorite pokemon)

thus those who've I've "hurt so much" now say I am a sucky artist, with that now I wonder if its the person many like, or buy.

You never like the work without the person and you never hate the work if you love the person. You'd never tell your "soul sibling" that their stuff is bad, if an anime artist and their work looks like the stuff in "Shin Chan", as opposed to wonderfully shaded and thought out mega anime works. You don't do that.

so here I am wondering how you'd take it, if someone were to want to deal with, on a busness sence or when it comes to a theme of "so and so is an art theif you'd be stupid to praise them, all they do is filter copyrighted photos", would you all support "don't like/comission so and so, they are icky poopoo meanie heads lets run them off the intertnets!"

this is artists beware, should you tell others to be warey over somthing like this and support the ideas of "so and so is mean hate them and tell everyone their art sucks lulzz"

ah well, we'll see.

Comments

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

well..ive never heard of you so your rep is clean as far as I'm concerned, but I know that personally i've been put off by artists because of their personality, but i dont tell people to not commission them because of it, I mean its just one persons opinion and all.

But I do have a list of people I would never do a trade with/commission because theyre such jackasses I'd rather just not deal with them. But do I chide people for sending them money? No. Not at all.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I am of the firm opinion that bad artwork speaks for itself, and that to say anything bad about a competitor is shameful (this is why I hate commercials!)

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Critique is one thing, but even that should only be given when it is asked for in this fandom (trust me, I've learned this the hard way many times), and even then, you might want to ask "do you want to know what I REALLY think?" before dishing a crit out.
But never say "you are not an artist". That isn't helpful or polite and will make others think you're a total bitch and avoid you.

So no, there is no need to try and badmouth someone if they haven't done anything wrong and just have piss poor art.

[joecifur.livejournal.com]

I hate to break it to you, but if you act like a jackass, whether it's right or wrong for people to dislike you and spread their opinions about you, you're going to hurt your business.

The solution is pretty easy. Either don't care, or quit acting like a jackass.

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I agree with this comment.

Especially when commenting on people's art online. If someone is perfectly happy being a disney knock off artist, let them be happy being it. no need to be a jerk and tell them that they'll never amount to anything. If someone did that to me they'd get an earful.

[kassichu.livejournal.com]

I don't care if you kick puppies while wearing steel-toe boots in your spare time. If I like your art and your business sense is fine-tuned, I'll buy from you.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

I loled at this comment more then I should have. XD

I'll try not to dither about your faulty assumptions.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting to.
I'm assuming someone is talking shit about you behind your back and you're worried it's going to damage your reputation and cost you customers?

I've had some people badmouth me behind my back, hell there's probably people doing it right now but in general the reputations of these people speak for themselves so I'm not too worried.
I think it helps that I try not to be an ass*. If I think someone's art is too one-sided I don't tell them "like a good art school is going to look at your portfolio with awe and amazement when its full of your purple lioness fursona hugging your favorite pokemon"
I tell them "This is just my personal preference but I'd love to see you tackle different subjects! Have you ever considered drawing X?"
As for bunk accusations of art theft, no accusation is going to go very far without proof, so that's really a non-issue.

If you think your reputation is overshadowing your skill as an artist you might wanna re-examine your behaviour and wonder if your bad reputation is deserved?

I certainly wouldn't commission an artist I knew was an asshole even if he treated his customers like gold. That's just not the sort of person I want to give my money to even if their work makes Dark Natasha's art look like snot flung on canvas.
And though I wouldn't go out of my way to dissuade others to boycott said asshole too, if the subject of that person came up I wouldn't be shy about sharing my personal experiences.

In short, stop being a dick.

*

Re: I'll try not to dither about your faulty assumptions.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

Speaking of reputations; Thaily, you scare me. D: lol.
*runs away before she gets beat by Thaily*

[vogeldrache.livejournal.com]

I had a hard time understanding what you were saying in most of this post. Lots of run-ons and jumbled thoughts. :x

But I think it's possible to admire someone's art while still disagreeing with their personality. Take __(name)__ for instance. I fervently believe she is a psychological and emotional danger to others as well as herself, and needs serious help. However, I also think half her art is quite impressive. *shrug*

Would I ever do business with her? Absolutely not. Even though I like some of her stuff, I would not choose to support her with my money despite getting something beautiful in return. This is because I disagree with her as a person, not as an artist. I advise my friends to be cautious when dealing with her, but if they honestly like her art, they're going to buy from her no matter my opinion.

As an artist, if I disagree with someone's art, I simply avoid it. That's easy enough. A few of my friends from the old days now draw hardcore anime crap. I really hate it, but that doesn't mean I don't want to talk to them or that I think they're bad people. I would never go around saying "SHE DRAWS CRAPPY ANIMU LET'S ALL HATE HER GRR." Why would anyone say that? D: I simply don't visit their page. *shrug*



As for your "fighting" practices, I think that's kind of rude to randomly show up and publicly comment on people's work so negatively like that, especially if they're not asking for critique. That's not exactly good people skills. Even if they're being stupid and deserve that sort of response, it's not polite at all.

Maybe people just don't like you as a person. Maybe they like your art separately, but they denounce your art anyway as revenge for giving them so much trouble. Sounds like a whole bunch of internet dramaz to me. What did you think was gonna happen when you commented on people's work like that? =/

[allytha.livejournal.com]

....honestly, if someone goes around bullying other people, they're not as professional as they make themselves out to be. You can't go around with the attitude that people should put up with you because you're talented, organized and promp on the business aspect. So are a lot of other artists, and many of them are nice and polite. Why on earth would someone want to go to the jerk if they can go to someone with a nicer attitude that's just as talented?

[kuwaizair.livejournal.com]

is acting like a "teeniebopper" more professional?

[stolenmilkcrate.livejournal.com]

As joecifur said, acting unprofessionally in even a pseudo-professional business is going to net you some detractors. Some folks won't care that you start crap with other artists, but those artists you are bothering can make others aware of what you're doing. And, well, Disney-style art is very appealing to a lot of people, so you might end up making "enemies" in rather large circles.

Personally, I do not enter into commissions with people who are known for being jackasses to other artists. Why? Because if something happens between us (whether accidentally, on purpose, or just perceived) when I'm doing business with that person, nothing is stopping them from doing the same to me that they've done to others. *shrug*

[featherlady-jt.livejournal.com]

Personality and behavior affects reputation. Reputation affects popularity. Popularity affects sales. It's a cause-and-effect thing, and a matter of professionalism. Your level of courtesy and professionalism will always affect your audience's opinion of you. That opinion will make or break your sales. The simple fact of the matter is, art is one of the biggest word-of-mouth businesses out there- so if one is known for bullying others, that word gets around, patrons' opinions are formed, and it WILL affect that person's business.

[bluedrake.livejournal.com]

People hate me, im'a jackass, they spread rumors and gossip, and I still get money and commissions. Fuckers.

[vogeldrache.livejournal.com]

While I disagree with that kind of attitude, you are a good example of what I was talking about in my initial post. Artists like to think internet karma/reputation will take care of the jackass artists, the "bad ones," but that's not how it works at all.

The terrible truth is, if someone honestly likes a person's art, they're going to pay them for it regardless of how much of a douchebag the artist is. Regardless of what other people say and warn and etc. Sometimes the art is more powerful than the omgdramaz.

Artists_Beware, how often do we see posts about some poor kid getting royally screwed over by a well-known artist? How often do we hear that so-and-so has a bad attitude and poor business ethics, and yet people are still shoveling money at them? While reputation is important on the internet, some people, unfortunately, exhibit an immunity to it.

But I will say what you do on the internet means nothing in the real world. In the art industry, clients and bosses will not tolerate a bad attitude. As badass as some people think their art is, if they rub people the wrong way in the industry, they pay for it dearly along the line.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

...okay I really have no idea what you just said in your post. Can anyone clarify/translate for me?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Basically, what they said is this:

I'm a jerk to other people. Now other people are saying things about me behind my back. Will this hurt my business?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

There are a few artists that I semi-follow whom have horrible attitudes towards other people. Having opinions on other peoples' drawing style is fine, however how you deliver that opinion matters.

As others have said, the way you act towards other people does affect your sales. There are a few excellent artists out there whom I will never do business with simply because of how they act outside of their commissions.

To me, when it comes to people who act professional in commissions but are jackasses to the general public, it makes me feel like they're putting on a front for the sake of money. I don't like that feeling. Sure it sounds weird, but I'm sure other people feel the same way I do.

[kuwaizair.livejournal.com]

so in order to be loved and get comissions I need to brownose, ass-kiss, give gift art, buy from others and endlessly praise the other people and call them my best friends. while acting like some teeniebopper?

because thats how you win.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

I know quite a few artists with very shitty reputations, or piss poor attitudes. Sadly, if their art is rocking, people still commissions them, reguardless of the fact that their rewarding bad behavior.

I guess this is the part where I ask you why you think its cool to be a bad-ass? Why is it important to be opinionated in a way thats imature? Etc. etc. There are people who have commented here who I see on many communities, who are opinionated, and hard-asses, but their not exsactly jack-asses about it.

All I want to say is - grow up. If you feel the need to be all bad ass and OMG OPINIONS still, you have alot of matureing to do, and taking commissions might not be a great idea for you at the moment.

[banrai.livejournal.com]

As long as I've known you, you've had a bad attitude toward others. And I wonder, why do you come to places like this and ask these questions. Of COURSE being a jerk to others is going to hurt your business. No one wants to buy from someone who thinks they're an art god/goddess and stamps on anyone's art that they don't like.

You get commissions by being polite, and having good artist-relations. You get your name out by being friendly, and when people see how friendly you are, they will want to be your friend. That's how you earn a reputation.

[banrai.livejournal.com]

Case in point: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Kuwaizair


stop doing all that stuff, and you'll get commissions.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Personally I think it is rude for you to tell anyone their art "sucks" because you happen to not like their style or think it is a Disney knock off. You should try to be constructive in all your comments about other artists work, and if you've earned a bad reputation for it that is harming your business, serves you right.
Your business is hindered or effected by how you conduct yourself on a personal basis, so if you are rude to other people all the time, that is going to rightfully reflect poorly on you, even if you have a spotless commision record and are an amazing artist.

[wyna-hiros.livejournal.com]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I can think of a few artists I enjoy the work of, but would never ever even buy a print from them, just due to knowing how horribly they treat other people. But, I wouldn't tell anyone 'don't commission them'. That's up to the person wanting to buy art. My personal beliefs are things I won't force on other folks.

Now, let's get to the point. I've told you time and time again, YOU are the one hurting your own commissioner image. You complain and whine about 'needing commissions', and make off handed reference to wanting to charge people $2,000 for things. You are scaring away people. You need to take a breath, and stop making posts to DA, and other public places with your art, about OMG you NEED commissions.

Costumers don't need sob stories, and they sure as hell don't need smartass comments about wanting $40,000 for full rights.

[featherlady-jt.livejournal.com]

"
Costumers don't need sob stories..."

You hit on a very important point. Patrons don't want to feel sorry for you. They want you to successful as an artist. They want to own art from those whom they feel have the potential of making something of themselves. If you present yourself as professional and successful, then your chances of becoming successful and maintaining that are MUCH higher. Granted, my genre of artwork is different from what is the main thing here, but I am pretty confident that this is true no matter what fine-art genre you persue.

[digitalis.livejournal.com]

Let me take this one step further. Beyond all internet/deviantart shitfits, there is working as a professional artist in real life, as your day job, in something like video games, film, merchandising, fine arts. These industries are made up of a very small group of people that shift around, from game company to game company, from merchandising to visual development, etc.
It's one thing to be an anonymous internet asshole, which is unprofessional behavior and IMO I'd lay off that, but you piss off the wrong recruiter or art director or hiring manager and they will tell their friends, and you will be screwed.
May want to keep in mind too that the 14 year old with his lion king persona and pokemans art may indeed go to art school, level up and end up in a position where he can keep you from a job. Just sayin'.

[vogeldrache.livejournal.com]

True dat. :o

[mercae-killar.livejournal.com]

I have never told anyone not to do business with certian artists, but I have found myself decideing not to even really follow the art of some, simply due to the fact they were rather nasty to others, and these were artists I had greatly admired beforehand. But that's my personal opinion, I would never tell others not to deal with a person based on how i feel about thier attitude.

IMHO

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

I think it's not possible to completely seperate oneself from one's art, because in order to sell or get that art out to people you often have to interact with your customers at least to some degree. Having read previous posts of yours and some of your other journal entries, this is the advice I have, take it or leave it:

- Please make the effort to type and spell properly. The first and sometimes only impression people will get of you as a person or as an artist is by your online written word. If you don't write properly, it makes you look bad and it doesn't inspire confidence in either your intelligence, your work ethic or your abilities, artistic or otherwise
- Let the petty drama go. Let people copy Disney or draw dogs all the time or whatever it is that bothers you. Stop visiting websites like that, stop complaining about it publically where anyone can see, because that sort of drama sticks out in people's minds.
- Stop making fun of just about any artistic fad or habit that other online artists have, stop taking any opportunity to take pot-shots at other artists because it shows you have no respect for your fellow artist and that again makes you look bad.

To be honest, from your posts, you give an impression of laziness and surliness that turns me off and I definitely wouldn't want to buy art from someone who gives me the impression of attitude like your posts do. People don't want to contact an artist about a commission and worry they'll get bitched at or quoted an insanely-high commission fee.

Do some research about what pricing is out there but also be realistic about the skill level of others when compared to yourself. Some artists are always going to make more money than others, it serves no purpose to be upset about it if people don't want to pay the same amounts for your work.

But definitely work on your people skills because they are your foot in the door and what will make the difference between a customer going "Wow I am never buying anything from them again!" and "Wow they were really awesome, I'll have to keep them bookmarked for later!"

Re: IMHO

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

She's been told this for years, sadly.

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest here.

Who the hell are you and why do you think you have the right to tell others their art sucks because it's based on an established art style?

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

Let me elaborate:

Kuwaizair is one of the few furries who has earned a page on Encyclopedia Dramatica. That takes a lot of effort, and I don't mean 'good' effort.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Your english is pretty poor for a 26 year old. Your typing is your first impression, think of it as appearance for the web, if you apparently can't be bothered to type neatly? Other people are less likely to bother to take you seriously.

I remember you, you were the one who wanted us to tell her it was okay to trace because you omg couldn't get to somewhere to take the reference you needed. So as far as I'm concerned, you already have a black mark without me really knowing what your attitude is.

I think you're full of crap quite frankly, why are you worrying about disney knock offs and other people when your own work needs for you to spend time on it. Let's face it, you still have much work to do before you can lecture other people. Worry about your own work first and the work of others another time.

Ever consider that maybe people are dissing your art because just maybe you need to work on it? Or maybe people could have other reasons for disliking you?

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

Some might say that this is justice, and that it's just what she deserves; but you do not need to stoop to her level to make an example.

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

I'm having a little trouble following your post and the point therein.
But the art and the artist go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other.

If it's business an artist is looking for, then they need to have appealing artwork and not act like a total unprofessional prat. It's not a complex formula.

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

Ku, I don't think you're going to get a great answer just because a lot of the folk here don't have the time to get their lulz from reading your Encyclopedia Dramatica page and learning everything they can about you. They're not going to be able to give you a better answer than those that know you, even if only through that little sliver.

This said:

Of COURSE having a 'reputation' is going to get you in the ass. Snogger's stuff is fine, but to hear her is a complete turn-off. In the case of someone like you who appears to have earned their page (no offense, but it's pretty obvious when the page is up for lulz and when the page is up for drama), it's going to hurt you more than if I were to make the same remarks, because I'm still virtually unknown.

... yet, but that's another matter entirely.

Your personality, like as not, is going to come through in your art. It's just that simple, and doubly so if you're trying to earn commissions.

[zyleeth.livejournal.com]

Pardon my nosiness, but I poked around your Deviantart page. You said this on your featured piece:

"rude, snide and harsh critisim are not welcom in any way, keep your maw shut if you cannot say anything kind."

Its just kind of interesting to see you say that, then say here that you insult the work of others yourself.

To answer your original question, I personally would not commission someone who I heard was a jackass. Is it always right? No. But generally, thats how society is. Unless you make a drastic change in the way you present yourself, its kind of hard to see a future for you in a profession that is just about 100% working with people.

[kuwaizair.livejournal.com]

oh yeh I need to fix that sarcasm dosne't translate well on line they say.

see I put that there because I see lots of very very very loved and good internet artists put comments like that, or "no critismism because I was so sad and almost killed myself over this drawing" and they get the world.

so I figure I'd copy them

you know like "if you steal my image i will kill your pets" descriptions little girls use.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

i know of your reputation, and honestly, 9 out of 10 people aren't going to know Alpha/Ku and your shenanigans ....

and i like your work but i've never exactly gotten a friendly vibe from you....

still, it wouldn't stop me from buying from you because you are talented.

the self depreciating, EVERYONE HATES ME shit is what would turn me away.

[kuwaizair.livejournal.com]

wow thanks. its just It has driven me mad for years, even when i was nicer, or more cheerie people never jumped up and down like mad druged monkies over my work, called me "a god" or such gigantic words of praise others get (undying inspirtation and such)
I need to do stunts to get people to admit.


so I wounder what it took for those people, even if their work isn't super steller.