Zippo is INSANE

[pocketbat-inc.livejournal.com]

I've worked with a lot of people over on FurAffinity without any problems. The user Zippo seemed okay at first when he initially sent me a note wanting to commission me. I asked him to please send me an e-mail with a description of what he wanted as well as ref pictures if he had any.

So he does this, all is good and well, but it's against my personal policy to draw animal genitals, and I of course reserve the right to decline any commission if I feel uncomfortable with the subject matter. Well, this was exactly the case, on both counts. So, first, I asked if he'd be willing to make a compromise with the genitals in question he wanted me to draw. He took massive amounts of offense to this and made a very snotty reply saying that he definitely would NOT make any such compromise.

So okay, no commission for him, whatever. I didn't really mind.

Then, I had received a rather offending comment on one of my pictures which made me write about it in my journal. I named no names, didn't point anyone in anyone else's direction to encourage flame wars or anything of the like. This was TOTALLY UNRELATED to my dealings with Zippo. However, he thought it was all about him and responded by attacking me. You can see what happened in the following link.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/138252/

Okay, so then I decide to just move on and I make another journal entry just about general commission stuff, I figure the bone has been buried, everything is well and fine. Boy howdy, I was wrong. Zippo sent me a message over YahooIM and the following conversation took place.

Zippo (6/4/2007 7:51:45 AM): you could have been a bit more kind about it >.<

Zippo (6/4/2007 7:52:13 AM): I dont call you a sicko for your tastes do I?

DroolingLupine (6/4/2007 5:53:35 PM): When the hell did I call you a sicko? That journal wasn't about you, you need to hurry up and get over it. You have a right to your own sexual preferences/fetishes, but I am not obligated to agree with them or to draw representations of them. I'm not going to discuss this any further with you. I was perfectly kind with you until you suddenly attacked me for no good fucking reason, so as far as I'm concerned you don't deserve any more kindness or courtesy from me. So fuck off, please.

Zippo (6/4/2007 8:46:37 PM): eh, you dont desurve my kindness. I literly opened myself up to you and you rejected everything I saught and stood for. Your ego-sidistic, overpriced, and I wish I haddent put all that wasted effort into my desc. you disgust me. If I had your address I would fuck up your back even more for being an asshole. So much for taking pitty on someone if thats what ill get in return. Computers are wonderful things, I can find you. I can find better talent elsewhere. go cry to the FA admins now and fuckoff

So I'm understandably pretty disturbed and upset, so I made another journal entry about all this. Not trying to drag out drama, but because, fuck...the guy just threatened me with BODILY HARM. I had to do something. The next link is that journal entry, along with crazy comments.

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/138661/

I already noted the admins and they said that while they totally sympathize, they can't do much in the way of banning him because he didn't say those things on FurAffinity, he said them using an IM service. So that kind of sucks, but I understand.

So, basically, I'm posting this to give everyone a heads up about Zippo. If he wants to commission you, make it crystal clear, as if you were speaking to a small child, what you are NOT willing to draw. Because if you let him type up a long description of what he wants, and it turns out to be something you aren't comfortable with, something like the above could happen to you.

Comments

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Yay for insane, over-sensitive would-be stalkers. O.o I'm really sorry you had to deal with that crap.

[lanabananaotter.livejournal.com]

That's not cool! >:[
Physical threats are way beyond the boundaries of good taste, and if the guy's actually serious, he needs psycological help.
Thanks for the heads-up... I'll avoid him like the plague.

[growly.livejournal.com]

Oh crap, thanks for the warning. D:
Y'see, THIS is why I'm closing furry commissions!

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

You are? Just art, or fursuit stuff too?

[wolf-nymph.livejournal.com]

My goodness... I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that you had to encounter someone who wanted to basically treat you like a prostitute with your artwork, and then proceeds to threaten you with bodily harm. I sincerely hope that you never run into such a person again. <3

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

dude, i dont understand what part of "has the right to refuse service for any reason" people don't understand. its not like you took the money and was like "mmmnope not gonna draw it, but ill keep your money tra la tra la". I hate this attitude thats going around that once someone pays you you are bound by law to draw anything they want regardless of how offensive you find it.

[pocketbat-inc.livejournal.com]

I never even collected payment from him, which makes all this so much more retarded. I mean, I can understand if I had taken the money and fled or didn't give a full refund or something, but NO MONEY was ever exchanged, so....I dunno. The crazy bug crawled up his butt and into his brain.

[blueroo.livejournal.com]

Zippo does not get a free pass just because he was was clever enough to IM you off FurAffinity. I promise.

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

I am so grateful to you for this. If he had ever tried to commission me to draw an animal or an alien penis, I would have said, "I do not draw them, Sam I Am." And then this would all have been me. ): But I'm still sorry you had to go through it...just glad I didn't. If that makes sense...

[zoom-gas.livejournal.com]

Holy shit, you've got to be kidding me. What an idiot. He is threatening you with physical violence over your refusal to draw dog cock???? Wow. I can't believe people like that exist.
Oh wait. Furries. Yeah, nevermind.
Anyways, props to you for keeping a cool head and standing by your guidelines. I'm also lolling pretty hard at "YOU'RE A PORNOGRAPHER, HOW DARE YOUUUUU".

[pocketbat-inc.livejournal.com]

I draw porn, THUS I DRAW EVERY KIND OF PORN.

SURELY I am the crazy one here for not following that unwritten rule. XD

[banka-flavored.livejournal.com]

Extremely upsetting -_- I usually don't get involved with drama-esque stuff (yeah right) but damn, he actually THREATENED you? Seriously, screwed up. I hope something can be done, he shouldnt be allowed to threaten someone and get away with it willy nilly.

[xothia.livejournal.com]

Is this seriously over drawing animal cock vs people cock?

[blueroo.livejournal.com]

This behavior is entirely consistent with Zippo's history. I have no trouble believing it. Zippo has been banned.

[fareme.livejournal.com]

Wow. D: That is horrible, I'm so sorry to see you went through that!
Thanks for the heads up, though, for the rest of us.

Sidenote: Anyone who lists 2600.com as their favorite website has got to be some kind of STUPID anyway. :P Ugh, what a poser.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

Actually, he appears to have been banned, perhaps for the comments he said in that journal. While your experience with him was pretty extreme, yours wasn't the first, and I feel like this ban was a long time coming.

BUT HEY. What do I know. XD

[felisepia.livejournal.com]

lol... woooooooow.

OMG, how dare you censor your own art!? For serious.

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

OMG FURSECUTION!!!!

This would have been sum good lawlz had it not been for the physical threats. Love it when the freaks get butthurt over being judged for their gross fixations.

*shakes head* I'm so sorry you had to deal with this guy. :(

[-wolfess-.livejournal.com]

Okay, at first I laughed (this is ridiculous right?), then I was genuinely scared when I read the last part.

I don't care how many people accuse you of dragging out teh drama people need to be warned about this guy.

[rakshepsaar.livejournal.com]

Oh my gad, your icon is hilarious!

[alaitallon.livejournal.com]

Wow . . . o_O I don't care if someone was the rudest person in the world (which you weren't, definitely, I think you handled it fine), you DON'T send them threats. Ever. Nothing you did (or refused to do) deserved being threatened by him. That's just . . . wow. I see a lot of strange shit in this fandom, but threatening physical violence to someone simply because they won't draw dog dicks is pretty far up on the list.

On the plus side, though, I've discovered your art through this. :D Very nice! I may have to commission you sometime (and I promise I'm not crazy like Zippo!)

[gamzee.livejournal.com]

Whoa. That's probably one of the most ridiculous and creepy commissioners I've read about on artists_beware.

And I wouldn't really say it was "mean" of you to post up a journal about what kind of comments you don't want to receive. I can see why he'd be offended, but you can't please everyone. You could say "damn" in a sentence and SOMEBODY would be offended, you can't predict such things all the time.

I just hope he won't act this way to another artist in the future. Wishful thinking :B

[xothia.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying this guy's behavior isn't apalling, nor am I defending him at all.

Please consider your professionalism. It is perfectly fine to have limits and preferences, and to state these clearly, but do so in a manner that is not rude or inflamatory, because it only makes you look ugly, especially when an outsider would not distinguish between your specific aestetic of the kink and theirs.

Think about this objectively: you say animals with animal penes is beastiality, but animals with human penes having sex with animals is NOT beastiality??? Pot? Kettle?

Not to get into TMI, but...

[filthy-animal.livejournal.com]

There is the "toony" side to furry porn, almost like Loony Toons or Sonic the Hedgehog, where it's "just different porn of toonish characters". It's just something else to look at for me other than real photos. Shit, I looked at Venom porn (Spiderman 3 Venom, you know?) the other day. To me it's just about having some variety. I like fantasy stuff sometimes-- and just because these creatures have fur doesn't change anything for me. I mean, they're having sex? There's a penis? Breasts? HEY I CAN WORK WITH THIS.

When you go the extra mile and slap animal genitals on these characters, it takes away from that "toony" feeling and jumps into a whole new fetish I just don't have.

I think there's a very thin line between furry and animal fetishes, and each person's opinion is different on this subject-- though that's my view.

[felisepia.livejournal.com]

Though this guy seems a tidge insane and I haven't dealt with anything that extreme, I can relate.

I refuse to draw animal cock too, it crosses a boundary with me.. I don't mean to be a prude, but there's just a few sexual things that I don't care to illustrate.

It's put a couple people off of commissioning me, but that's okay. Either they happily compromise, or they move on to someone else.

I'm sorry you had to deal with this though :/

[shadsdf.livejournal.com]

That's insane and creepy. Even moreso now I've seen Thaily's reply. I hope you don't have to go through the stalking yourself :X

[jurann.livejournal.com]

I feel that I just need to add in a couple points to all of this.

First, I don't really think this belongs in the AB community - this isn't an issue with a bogus commissioner or artist or someone who's screwing you out of art/money.

Secondly, PocketBat drew a VERY inflammatory and divisive line in the sand and did it in a very offensive nature, basically blanketing the entire fandom under the headings of zoophile and pedophile. That's not very polite, considerate or thoughtful and with as many people as are watching her, some serious fallout and drama can be PREDICTED.

Thirdly, when you draw furry porn for money, you do NOT have any "moral high horse" to ride over people who do or don't like this or that. That's like a circus clown calling a midget a freak. I'm not saying this because I disapprove of furry porn, but seriously, there are more people that think a furry porn artist is a zoophile than there are who think realistic animal-shaped cocks on anthro characters is. If you don't want to draw them, that is your prerogative and decision and it should be respected, however you don't have to be rude and throw around preachy blanket statements that offend large numbers of people in doing it.

Zippo certainly stepped over a line, and that shouldn't go unnoticed or untold, however I have a feeling that we're not getting the WHOLE story and that this post would be more appropo in a personal journal. Drama was called for and it seems to be ringing in pretty thoroughly. And so far it's been the fantards in the majority here, it won't be long before the "Fursecution Sharks" come around to start dropping F-bombs - there's blood in the water.

[pocketbat-inc.livejournal.com]

Thirdly, when you draw furry porn for money, you do NOT have any "moral high horse" to ride over people who do or don't like this or that.

So because I draw porn, that means I'm automatically completely immoral?

I never said ALL of FA was either zoophile or pedophile, I DID say that the website is full of people who ARE pedophiles and/or zoophiles, and I'm sorry but you can't tell me that's not true.

I don't get how, if I make a "rude" journal entry drawing a line about what I will or won't draw, I'm suddenly an asshole. While a furry could call me a biggot or "intolerant" and give me a longass rant and they're at no fault. I've found this to be the case looking at situations surrounding other people, and I've got to say this is ridiculous.

If I need to, I'll post up all the e-mails that were sent between Zippo and I. I was NEVER rude to him in our private coorespondances, and no, I honestly WASN'T expecting him to flip out and think it was aimed at him. I get WHY he thought that, but he was mistaken.

And as for a "moral high horse" I refuse to think that I am just as bad as someone who gets off to little children and animals, just because I draw anthro/furry ADULT porn.

And this isn't the first time I've made it clear what I do and don't draw. I've made it clear in old journal entries, I make it clear on all of my furbid auctions, so this didn't just come out of nowhere. I wasn't trying to start drama, I just feel very strongly about my right to refuse a commission because I'm not comfortable with the subject matter. I won't refuse a commission if it's from someone who has INTERESTS I don't agree with, the only time I will reject a commission is if what the person wants drawn is outside of my boundaries.

You would think that as much as "furries" get made fun of and ridiculed that their hides would be thicker than they are. x_x

But I'm honestly tired of arguing my point, if someone has their mind made up, nothing I say is going to convince them otherwise.

[duraji-synth.livejournal.com]

You know what? I really like the fact that you draw humanoid genitals. You seem to be one of the few these days that has such a limit, and I commend you for it!

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

Jesus. Can't the FA admins do anything about the death threat?

Anyway.. I prefer not to draw animal genitals, I useually draw human penises (sp?) on all my males. I've never had someone request a different type, but most people who have seen my art notice I don't really draw odd penis shapes.

[zoom-gas.livejournal.com]

they b& him

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

I must agree with several posters,

Now I'm not saying what Zippo said was justified at all however as an artist, how can I put this? It's not a good idea to shit where you eat. Posting public rants against people just because they personally prefer to have animal appropriate parts on an anthro rather than human genitalia is a slightly poor idea, posting it on one of your galleries where potential commissioners/drama whores are going to read it? Suggests something was lacking in the logic department when you chose to post it.

Keep the "omg how disgusting people like this" rants in a private journal, I'm not saying you shouldn't rant however it's both prudent and good business sense to think about what impact that rant might have depending on where you posted it. In a private journal where only your friends can see is a lot better than out in public on FA where it's blatantly obvious that some people are not only going to be offended but they're going to be loud about being offended.

I think Zippo was right to be offended however inappropriate his reaction is, you did offend him even if it was unintentional. By posting that rant no matter how much you insist it wasn't about him? It was nevertheless an attack on his personal tastes. You drew a moral line and implied anyone over the other side of it was a zoophile. That is not only illogical but it is going to attract outraged attention.

You have the freedom to rant but never forget that your freedom to rant grants a similar freedom to others when it comes to disagreeing with you. Personally I think it looks downright silly when someone spends ages drawing an anthro then tags on the human penis, I could understand having a penis that was half and half, but really when I see pornography with anthros that have human genitals, it just makes me think that the person wants to screw them but has given them human genitals in order to morally separate them from animals so they're "ok" to screw. That's just my opinion however.

Anyway, I agree Zippo's reaction was over the top and he shouldn't have threatened you. However you yourself could do with greater professionalism. You were rude and abrasive, you provoked Zippo both deliberately and unintentionally by just not thinking. Zippo might have a reputation for being like that, I suggest however you do not let yourself get a reputation for looking down on others for their personal tastes or for talking to people in that manner. Such reputations inevitably spread and do cost you business. Your journal on the matter of not drawing dog cock could have been a lot better written.

[ultimatekingrat.livejournal.com]

Thank you!