Sugarfactory

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Who: Sugarfactory

Where: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sugarfactory


What: Digital art piece, chibi, $10

When;
November 15th: Date comissioned, paid
November 20th: The artist tells everyone who comissioned her to remind her of what they comissioned
December 1st: After I asked the status of my artwork a week earlier, she says that she took a short break and will continue now.
December: Three journals in December state that her father has been ill, and will be returning home soon, so she has been very stressed out.
January 11th: Artist posts a journal says that she has gotten too far backlogged because of her family issues and will give everyone a refund. I tell her that I would rather wait, and she says she will finish my art soon.
January 21st: Since last contact,the artist has been taking many new comissions, and I ask why. she responds that she has been catching up on old comissions and will note mine to me soon. She asks how much I paid and my paypal. I figure this is to look through her records to confirm what I commissioned. Instead she gives me a refund, which I DID NOT ASK FOR. You may think I would be happy with a refund, but I did not ask for this. I want what I've been waiting for all these long months, my art. Artist appears to have given up at this point. She states that she was almost done but would rather just refund.
February 5th: Artist posts a journal saying she will be responding to everyone soon. When I complain that I only wanted my art, she says she will do a fullbody art piece and says I don't need to send the money back. She says that it is mostly done and just needs to be shaded and she will email it to me asap.
February 22nd: I am still waiting and have not recieved any art or response, nor has she posted anything new in her gallery. I'm done with this.

Proof:
Nov14 Details on comission: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/kaiakaichi/artist%20beware/nov14.png

Nov15 Payment: http://puu.sh/2cpQe

Nov15 Journal where comissioned: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/kaiakaichi/artist%20beware/comissionjournal.png

Jan11 Will have it uploaded soon: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/kaiakaichi/artist%20beware/jan11.png

Jan21 Note stating refund: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/kaiakaichi/artist%20beware/jan21-refund.png

Jan21 Refund: http://puu.sh/2cpPZ

Feb5 Will give art anyway: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/kaiakaichi/artist%20beware/feb5.png

Feb5 Shading to be done: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/kaiakaichi/artist%20beware/feb5-shading.png


Explain:
TLDR; Artist is constantly taking new comissions and getting backlogged and not finishing old art, would rather refund and start over. I did not want a refund, I just want the art I've been waiting for. Getting money back in my pocket does not satisfy the disappointment I feel for having waited to get adorable art from what I thought was a wonderful artist. I never even received a WIP sketch.

Comments

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

I do see that she's having trouble managing. Her most recent journal is very illuminating on her emotional state and there are other clients posting in her shoutbox.
I'm inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt here though, it seems you got your money back so you haven't really lost anything but time. Her attitude seemed to be pretty fair throughout the whole thing too

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

While I wouldn't have personally let someone wait that long before a refund, I would like to say that even if you didn't want one, it's better to get one.

It's disappointing when an artist cannot do the work for whatever reason, but it happens. Sometimes I need to refund people and I only do so when there's no way around it, this isn't something I do on purpose to slight a client. I've gotten people upset who would then badger me about it, but sometimes there is simply no other choice. What you want, and what an artist can actually provide can be really different, even if they are doing work for others at that time.

I'm not defending the artist, I'm only trying to explain that while really disappointing, it wasn't bad of the artist to refund. In fact, it can be much more proffesional to refund when you know you aren't able to do things in a timely, proffesional manner.

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

I can kinda understand that, but after making me wait so long, and teasing me saying, 'I'll post it up soon' week after week, just....no. Its very disappointing.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

What do you mean week after week? From what you posted, she said she'd have it posted on Jan11, she then refunded you on Jan21st.

Yes, it was a while until her note about posting, but it wasn't long at all until a refund was given.

I'm not excusing her, she has some things to work on, although like Timelapsedecay, I feel like things have been going on for her, rather then actually being a bad artist. Refunding was actually a good way for her to work on her backlog, since she pretty obviously isn't doing ok, rather then making people wait lonbger.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

These are my thoughts exactly. Can't excuse the long lapses between updates, but the artist has every right to cancel and refund clients

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Well, I may be exaggerating on 'every week', but i did ask for for updates every few weeks. It just seems like the problems was going on for so long that it felt like every week, trying to pull teeth that would never come.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Do you have any proof of that you could add in the post? I mean, saying once she'll be posting it soon is completely different from saying it multiple times, but the post only shows this happening once.

Although if you asked for an update and she gave one, not saying it'll posted soon, that's also different.

So which is it then? You just said you asked for updates every few weeks, then after said it felt like pulling teeth every week.

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

I asked her for updates many times, and she never gave one, just said it'd be posted soon. Never did.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I really think you need to provide proof of this. If you have proof, it helps shows that this artist didn't communicate with you, but as is, you've exaggerated, then said each week and then changed it to a few weeks, what's true exactly?

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I find it a bit suspicious that OP has exaggerated, changed what they've said and has not clarified when asked twice, and asked by another for proof of certain statements, yet is active and commenting on other pieces rather then this.

I will of course gladly apologize if I turn out to be wrong and proof shows everything said is true, but as is, it sounds like a case of making things sound worse then they actually are.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I'd like to ask that you provide proof of these multiple update requests, it would be nice of you to add them to further explain how the artist treated you. Please make sure and censor out the artists email/name in these screenshots, thank you.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Honestly, when an artist offers you a refund, take it. She's obviously showing signs in her journals that she isn't in the state of mind to continue the work as much as she wants to.

And on a personal note, I don't feel any free art should be held against her. The refund was given, and sometimes people can't get freebies out the door even if they wanted to.

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

In that case, she shouldn't have kept promising anything.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Well, of course, that goes without saying. Hindsight is 20/20 though, and like SB said, she did the right thing by refunding rather than trying to dig herself out of this situation by doing the work itself. It was already taking long, and whatever's going on in her life right now is probably not the best situation.

I hope she does get herself together to prevent these kinds of things from happening. I can feel for someone in her situation and understand where she's coming from. Especially on the bit about offering freebies and not being able to follow through on them as much as one would really want to.

I am sorry that you got strung along, however. I you're feeling very disappointed at the moment, but trust me, I'd rather see someone walk away with a refund they didn't want or wait very very long for art that they'd probably hate seeing by the end of it.

(frozen)

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I really don't understand why this is even here? You got a refund, even if you didn't want it, it's really not up to you. Yes, it sucks, but the artist is being responsible in giving them and actually earns them 'bonus points'.

Even if they said they would give you free art, it's not something that can be held against them. Freebies are just that, free. Nothing exchanges hands for them.

On an semi-unrelated note, I purchased a commission from this person and pretty much got the art in a day or two, I believe? All went smoothly and the artist was great to work with. I do not believe they are lying or attempting to scam what so ever.

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Please see below, and please mind our rules, thank you!

(frozen)

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I read that and I still, literally, do not understand. I will adhere to the rules and not question it again though, sorry.

(frozen)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Simply put: Because there is fault on the artists side and this may not be a one-time-offense. There is issues on both sides of the coin, but refunding after much time of promises and waiting and holding onto customers money does not wipe away the fact that the artists business ethics were not very good during this transaction.

It's just one of those posts that are borderline. I thought I'd try my hand at explaining it, since we did discuss this a lot in the mod comm. (Which is pretty standard for any post, really!)

Gonna go ahead and freeze this, since it's been explained by Kayla-la, and then myself.

(frozen)

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

I'm with teekchan, what actually is the purpose of this beware?

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

First, please mind our rules, rule number 5 specifically, thank you!

Second, we had a really hard time with this post. We discussed it for quite a while, going back and forth, and ultimately decided to tentatively approve it. Some things were done poorly on both sides, and we do agree that the OP should have taken the refund, but it doesn't excuse the artist from their own behaviour, in the end.

I'm freezing this here now that an explanation has been given to prevent further rulebreaking and going offtopic. If you'd like to discuss it further, please feel free to PM one of us!

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

While it does seem she is having some management trouble, it seems like she is well-intentioned and only trying to make sure everyone gets something to make up for any mistakes she's made. She refunded you and even offered you free art. You might be disappointed, but you've hardly been left out in the cold, even if she hasn't finished yet. It doesn't seem like there's any point to this beware.

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

Sorry about that ^^;

[familliaraver.livejournal.com]

Yea, you were refunded but I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. What happened basically boiled down to an interest-free loan the way I see it. I think the beware is warranted because it makes people aware because it leaves a paper trail for someone else to find before they give this artist money. You may get art, you may wait months and get refunded.

It is good you got your money back without much hassle, hope you find someone to make you cute art!

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Thanks. That's part of the point I'm trying to get across here that no one else gets.

[familliaraver.livejournal.com]

Maybe it also shows symptoms of a bigger underlying problem. A habit of taking on work to refund work that hasn't been finished yet and then take more work to pay bills. It looks like a quick dig to the bottom if one isn't careful.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Don't assume no one gets what you're trying to say. We allowed this post to go through -because- we understand your side of it.

However, there are actions you may have taken that could have helped your side a bit more. Do not be discouraged, because not everyone agrees with how you handled it. But do know, that we felt the beware valid enough to post it at the very least.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

This very much.

It's great that OP received a refund pretty painlessly, but that doesn't change the fact that they were interested in a commission and rather than playing the part of a banker temporarily loaning money out.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, even though you had a definite wait, the artist did give you a refund. They explained it early in a journal as to why, and at the very least did the right thing. You may have instead wanted the art, but now you can take the refund and instead put it towards something else, or another artist who may be more reliable.

Promising you extra art is usually a way to placate the customer, but rarely does the artist actually give the extra free art. You shouldn't expect it at all, and if they do it, that's great...but honestly I just wouldn't set your heart on free art. Not when the artist couldn't complete the paid-for art in the first place.

This does not excuse the artists behavior and lack of communication, however. I also see on her personal page that there are others inquiring about their commissions, so perhaps this is a pattern.

[kasune.livejournal.com]

I had a hard time understanding why this beware was posted, but thanks to the mods, I can see both sides of the court now.

My opinion on this matter is that freebies should not be held over an artist's head, period. They're free, and you're not paying for them, so they're not as important. The artist is not obligated to do anything for free (unless it is part of a sale, ex. "buy one get one free," "order a full color fullbody and get a sketch free.") I don't think any artist should offer free art as compensation for a long wait if they already have a backlog. It only makes things worse. Now, pushing that aside.

I'm sorry to hear that you didn't get the art you wanted, and instead got a refund. It is very disappointing, but sadly, it does happen.

I agree with you that her business ethics were not the most stellar, and that she shouldn't have kept making false promises. I believe that is why the beware was posted- the way she handled the transaction was poor. Offering free art to placate you was not the way to go, as well as constantly saying she will do something without backing up her words with actions.

She should have offered you a refund from the get-go, instead of giving you a refund and THEN saying "don't send the money back, it's almost done with your art anyway." Doing something like that opens a whole new can of worms.

Edit: Ugh, grammar. Sorry for the multiple edits.

[neen evans (from livejournal.com)]

I've had similar issues with this artist recently.

I paid straight away for a chibi couple commission from her way back in April. She drew the lineart for it & that was all I ever saw.

Some time later she posted a journal stating that she had to factory restore her pc & that she lost all her artwork on it (I've since been told by someone that this was an actual lie).

She posted a few journals some time after stating she was sorry that she hadn't be doing any work on commissions & saying she had a new job that was taking up her time etc.

So I sent her a note asking for a refund because I told her that waiting over 3 months was way too much. She replied saying she could get to work on it within the week & she would offer me extras as well.

The week came & went without anything & by this point, I realised it was just a deal sweetner that she probably had no intentions of completing.

So I asked for the refund again, she finally noted me back asking for my Paypal. She's had a week or so to refund me & hasn't done so yet, I've asked her about it also & haven't received a reply. I'm concerned.

How would I go about trying to get my refund back? Would it help if I took it up with Paypal?

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Sorry to say, I don't think you can get a refund through paypal now. I think they have a limit of a couple months to force a refund. If you don't get that refund from her soon, maybe post another artist-beware? It will get attention, at the least.

[neen evans (from livejournal.com)]

What do you mean they have a limit of a couple of months to force a refund?

Do you mean it has to be a set period before I can ask them to pursue a refund for me? Coz its been 3 months.

Or do you mean I only had 2 months in which I could have forced a refund?

If I don't get this refund then I'm not going to be as polite & kind as I've been with her. I've shown her far more courtesy than she's deserved from this.
I'll be fully naming & shaming her as many ways as I possibly can.

The irritating thing is that if I'm even lucky to get that refund at all, I will be out of pocket because the exchange rate has gone lower in these past few months so I won't be getting the exact same amount back off her.
This has made me extremely wary of who I commission now. I think I'll be checking on here more often before I choose to commission someone.

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Paypal's policies, I think, only give you a couple months to force a chargeback. So, your best bet is to contact the artist directly. They can just send a payment. I'm having trouble finding what the deadline is, but here's a link to the chargeback FAQ:

https://www.paypal.com/ca/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-faq

I'm sorry to hear that you've run into troubles with her as well :( at least she gave me a refund, but she still had bad business ethics. She's acting even worse with you, unfortunately. I really hope you get that refund and the satisfaction you deserve.

[neen evans (from livejournal.com)]

I already contacted the artist directly but I will try again & attempt to be more stern this time.

I'll have a read of that link when I get a chance.

Thanks for your help.

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear it.

[neen evans (from livejournal.com)]

Well I finally got my refund back.

I had to be a bit more stern with her but I got there in the end.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

You're better off simply posting a beware and advising your friends. Do it professionally, and continue to stay professional in your dealings with the artist, even if they are not with you and/or string you. Its just better that way all around.

Secondly, Paypal has a limitation regarding refunds of 45 days. So a little over 1 month. This doesn't go towards Gift payments, as those are not Goods/Service related.

If you paid via a bank card or credit card on your Paypal account, you could attempt a chargeback that way.

[neen evans (from livejournal.com)]

If I still don't get my refund by then, then I'll look into that.

Well my card is connected to my account so I'm guessing I did. I'll see if I can get it back that way.

Thanks for the advice.