Lack of Communication

[wyndsong12.livejournal.com]

[Edit] Its the opinion of most people here that mouldred is a decent and some times generious commissioner, he just doesn't have very good communication skills. And on top of that it seems I didn't give him nearly enough time, as most artists seem to give much more time before payment is due. In my (limited) experience I've either gotten a quick payment or none at all. Where it seems he's had a few misses, he does pay for his commissions. I'm posting this there so in the event someone does wonder about him as a commissioner they find this and not get the wrong idea about his slow communication. Its still my opinion his communication in his emails could be a lot better. I'm glad for all the comments I recieved, they point more toward him being a decent commissioner and not a deadbeat bidder.



Hello, this is the first time I'm coming here with anything. I don't take a whole lot of commissions, but lately I have been getting a few requests. I figured the best way to go about it would be to run an auction on Furbid. So on 12/18/07 I started a ten day auction. The auction was over the 28th and won by Moldred for $101.

http://www.furbid.ws/cgi-bin/auction/item.pl?item=232340069

It was at this time I went into his feedback. He/she has hundreds of positive feedback, but a hand full that say there was no communication at all, and that they were a 'deadbeat bidder'.

I sent them an email the same day, congratulating them on winning my auction and asked them politely to send me information on what they wanted. As stated in my auction anything over $100 was negotiable as far a content.

Email from me:

Congratulations on winning my auction!

As the final bid was over $100, we can negotiate what you would like. Please let me know what you had in mind.

Also I am in the process of purchasing a new computer. I have a computer capable of doing sketches and lineart, and by the time I need to do coloring and shading I should have my new computer. Just FYI.

With no response by 12/31/07 I sent another email. Now what I read in his/her feedback is sending up a red flag. I set them a deadline before I would move on to the next commissioner:



Good Morning,

 

Just trying to touch base with you on the commission auction you won. I'm still up for it, but if I do not get any kind of reply/payment by January 5th I will have to cancel the commission in favor of moving on to the next person.

 
TheDonkeyDog

On January 1st I finally recieved at email from him/her:

I've been trying to pay you on paypal but I keep getting
"This recipient is currently unable to receive money."
WHY?
I'll work out what later in the week.
Thanks for your patience
~o0~ moldred ~0o~


I was a little put off by this, as I didn't give them my payment information. I don't ask for payment until after commission details are worked out. I replied the same day with this:

How could you do that if I haven't given you my paypal address?

You still have until the 5th.


The next day, Jan. 2nd I recieve this:

I was using
Thedonkeydog@gmail.com
If you want to get paid why wouldn't you give me your paypal address?
Why didn't you include it with this message?

My idea for a picture is
Ripper the tigress
[Links for referance]
And/or Sneak the calico
[Links for referance]
Being attacked by a jello monster like
[Links for referance]

That can dissolve their clothes but not their bodies and has.
Outside or in a ruined castle or old mine like
 [Links for referance]

(ignore the Martian!)
[Links}
what do you think?
Thanks for your patience
~o0~ moldred ~0o~


My reply:

I forgot to add it. I figured you might have made some kind of reply before trying to make a payment. I found your first email to be a little rude, so honestly I was a bit put off and hastily sent it.

I will need to sit down at home to go over all the pictures. A jello monster sounds like fun to render, so I'm thinking it will be a good idea for a commission. Confusion with emails aside, this sounds like it will be a fun commission.

Due to its complexity, and some problems at work this may take me a while to finish. (a month or more) I do commissions on the weekends, as I work a lot of over time on weekdays. So if all if this is ok, feel free to send payment to selinavann@gmail.com

I'm thinking maybe everything will be alright in the end, and wait for the payment. It never comes, so today on the Jan 5th deadline I cancel the commission.

I send this email today, as the deadline was up and no payment was made:

As I still have not received payment, I am forced to move on to the next commissioner. I am officially canceling this commission due to lack of communication and no payment by the stated deadline. Please understand there are others waiting in line, and your slowing down not only mine, but their progress as well. Please DO NOT send payment, as it is too late.

Later in the day I recieved this reply:

I don't understand. You finally give me the paypal address after weeks of back and forth and then cancel the commission? I don't get it.
Why can't you do some other work first and then do mine? I don't understand that either.

Then I sent what I hope will be my last email to this commissioner:

I gave you a deadline and you missed it. If you had the money, it shouldn't have been an issue, and would have been sent by now. I take on only one commission at a time for my own sake. The lack of communication in the beginning and your inablity to make the payment by the January 5th deadline are big red flags for me. And as an artist (as well as other artists) I reserve the right to deny commissions.

Now, I did set a short deadline, but they did say they had already attempted to send a payment. Wouldn't that mean they have the money? It shouldn't have been a big issue. If it was an issue some kind of communication should have been made to state that. If my deadline was unreasonable, something should have been said. I can't stand people who yank my chain, there for I set myself up for a fall (unless of course I know the commissioner personally) This was a case of mistrust and lack of communication.

Comments

[alaitallon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've had some communication issues with this guy, too. I, too, sent him a "Hey, you've won my auction" type message after he won one sometime back, and after several weeks of no response, I also told him that he had a certain time period to at least contact me or else I will move on.

He finally sent references, but once I sent the colored pic to him (he approved the sketch rather promptly, which was helpful), I never heard from him again. No "This looks good!" no "Oh, yeah, pretty much what I had in mind," not even a "Thanks!" even though I threw in a free sketch to compensate for the amount of time I had to take (due to finals and the like). Not a peep.

So yeah, I don't blame you for canceling after no payment. I don't know how much time you gave him between giving him your Paypal info and your deadline for payment, but the communication issues were enough to turn me off from wanting him to commission me again. :\

[growly.livejournal.com]

You have to email him 2-3 times to get a reply, usually. But if you push it, he WILL reply.

[alaitallon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I figured as much after my interactions with him. It's just kinda frustrating to have to feel like I'm nagging someone just to get a reply for something they wanted in the first place. :P

[growly.livejournal.com]

If you do decide to work with him in the future however, he is very easy to please, doesn't ask for a lot of unreasonable changes or anything. And he tends to bid high on artwork :)

[oolong.livejournal.com]

i had a similar situation a while back - the email address i use for regular communication is slightly different than the one i use for PayPal, and because I can't get PayPal to close my stupid old account or withdraw the money that's in it, anything sent to that first address gets trapped in there. despite my writing three times, 'once you've gotten a chance to look at the sketch and come up with any changes that are needed, please send the first half payment through paypal to mypaypal@address.com (NOT myemail@address.com!!)' i still ended up with a client sending the money to the wrong address, and I didn't have the balls to demand the rest of the fee, since it was an honest mistake and it was either me being out $25 or him. guh! that's only happened once out of my last 20 PayPal commissions or so, though.

for those clarity issues, i think the best thing to do is in your original auction, and in the very first email you send, detail every step of the process, explaining what they need to do and what you will then do in response, so if they screw up you can just point and be like "sucks to be you, learn how to read buster" and avoid any possible misunderstanding. just write it all up in a text document and copy and paste - it's better to write stuff that's common sense or that they should already know than to assume and put yourself at risk of a "but you didn't tell me that" situation. like a contract for under-the-table work of sorts.

however, in your particular case, it's pretty fishy that they claimed the payment wasn't accepted, yet they wouldn't send the money to the correct address once you gave it to them, nor did they give you any good reason that they're delaying payment. maybe a scam artist, but more likely someone who just doesn't understand how commissions work and has only had a couple of people (the ones leaving negative feedback) deny their commission for not following the correct procedures. a lot of artists are desperate enough that they don't hold themselves and their clients to a reasonable level of professionalism and such, and instead say "oh it's okay, no problem, just do it when you're ready and i'll start on the pic now" or whatever which ends up hurting other artists when clients come to them with that expectation...

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

Could you not have refunded them (this is free) and had them resend to the correct address? Every transaction gives you the choice to refund.

[oolong.livejournal.com]

ooooh, i didn't even realise that *_* well, it's too late now. i'll keep that in mind if it happens again though.

[lozpie.livejournal.com]

I think you were fair... they seemed like they werent quite on the ball or something. :/ maybe the deadline should have been a *little* bit longer, but 8 days seems reasonable...

[growly.livejournal.com]

Moldred is hit or miss.
He is extremely busy all the time, and on average, it takes about 3 repeated emails to get a reply out of him. He makes plenty of money- that's not the issue, it's just getting him to hold still for 5 minutes to answer his email.
I've also had problems with him assuming the email I'm sending him mail to is the paypal address. He is a good customer as a whole, but requires special patience.

[jtbeckett.livejournal.com]

Moldred's a good guy, like growly said, he's hard to get ahold of... I assume he's just a very busy guy. He definately has the money, and he likes to spend money on artwork. I think it's probably more of a bummer that you didn't know that before dealing with him.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I've had more than a few misses with this guy too. He won three auctions with me over the last year (?), and even after multiple attempts at multiple address I ened up with nada. No replys, no payments. He's now blocked from bidding due to this.

[romani123.livejournal.com]

I really hate it when you the artist do your very best to keep the lines of communication going good then get jerked around like this.
I have had it the other way around with fursuit makers twice sighs.

[avanyu.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with grrrowly, too. Moldred is there and he pays (very)well, but not always swiftly. Sometimes he'd never answered my furbid end-of-auction emails, yet! he'd send the check like clockwork. X3

I know someone else on FA mentioned an auction commission with him they thought he was a 'deadbeat' on because he didn't respond fast enough, but I and others advised her to wait with him and boom, he came through. There really is a special kind of patience involved working with Moldred, but if that's not what you can work with, then it's not what you can work with.

[neongryphon.livejournal.com]

I wish I got a $ every time someone has comm issues with Mouldred. Can't say I blame you for cancelling. If you're busy and reliant on the money, then you need buyers that pay as per the auction conditions.

[xianjaguar.livejournal.com]

Just throwing this in here as info for those who read it.

Moldred is a regular bidder on my auctions, and I've yet to have trouble with him (and I've always rated him high on Furbid). He does pay **fast** though...even before a 'you've won my auction' email is sent, and I guess in your case, he used a non-functioning email (since as you said, you never gave him yours, so he ASSUMED the one that was listed was the correct one).

Like Growly said, he's very busy, and has about 5 email addies that he uses, so the trick is usually just to CC your letter to all his addies, and be persistent. Special patience! =)

He does a LOT of business with dozens of artists, so I guess it's easy for him to lose track of who needs money where and when, and whose commissions he's dealing with at the time.

[xjacekx.livejournal.com]

I'm very glad I saw this post, as he won an auction of mine a few weeks back, paid, and hasn't sent any response about it since o.o;;; I was quite worried that something may have happened ((as it would be odd for someone to pay and then just never get their art)) so I'll fallow the advise and send him a few more e-mails and hopefully get this started ^.=.^

[ksharra.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Most people give much more time than that to allow for payment. I know I sometimes get busy and I don't check my email for a day or so. Three days is hardly uncommunicative, in my opinion. From what you said, it seems like he was replying fairly promptly, too, so cutting it off after such a short deadline was pretty harsh. PLUS, you did say "any kind of reply/payment by January 5th", which he DID reply before the 5th, so technically he met your terms and you had no right to cancel his commission. I think it's also a little absurd that, when he said he didn't have your Paypal address, you again gave him the deadline, but not your Paypal. You should have reset your deadline based on the communication, and perhaps set a new deadline once the commission details were in place and the Paypal address was given.

I've sold art to Moldred before, he's a major art buyer, and yes, he's also a very busy person. I think you've just stiffed yourself.

[auradeva.livejournal.com]

This is just how Moldred works. He's been a huge supporter of unknown artists for over ten years. The trade off for his slow communication is that he never really bugs you about deadlines. I've been working on a comic with him for over a year now that I still need to finish for him and he's totally cool with it.

[tehjos.livejournal.com]

Moldred bid on my very first auction and won it, quadrupling the price I expected to get, so much kudos to him for that. However, I understand your communication woes, as I experienced similar troubles.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Just adding another voice to the crowd that when I was doing a few furbid commissions Moldred bought from me. I agree Moldred was a little weird on the communication - things got done, but once I sent the final I didn't hear from them until a few months later they asked if I'd completed a commission or not -- NOT in a mean way. I replied I had and resent the images and haven't heard back.

Anyway, Moldred seems to spend lots on artists so that's awesome, just does take patience. I get the impression that they buy a LOT of commissions and are somewhat absent minded, but quite nice and accepting.

[aazhie.livejournal.com]

I agree with Spiffystuff and Grrowly. He's got different quirks than your average bidder, but honestly, i'd prefer him to a lot of other commissioners I have got on auctions. The one piece I did for him was tough but allowed for artistic liscence, and i ended up making something better than i had expected and got a decent tip on top of the final bid. The communication was wierd, but I am not the best at checking email every day, and I do often follow up emails if don't hear from someone, so it really wasn't that bad. I think if you are willing to work for your money by bugging him, it will pay off.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

Yea.. Not to be a dick or anything, but it seems more like you caused more out of this then he did.
When you send someone a "Hey, you won!:D!" email, you really ought to include an phsyical address they can send stuff to you or, the proper email address to send to via paypal. Its up to you as the artist to include SOMETHING as to where they can send payment. I myself, when I ebay, rather send payment before I contact the ebayer myself. So for you not to include a payment method really was your fault.

As for Moldred, yes, he needs to work on his communitcation, but three days is a small time period. Useually its a week or more.

Also, after the communication issue, and not having given him the correct paypal, it was VERY poor buisness practice for you to cancel the commission on him for your mistake.

If anything, In my opinion this is a beware of you, not beware of Moldred. Sorry. :\

hhmmm, ah seh

[fyphfoko.livejournal.com]

i agree with the red wolf, and perticualy with stray dog and ksharra

moldred seems to work in the same way that i sometimes work, its to do with busyness and sometimes money as well

but the artists i have dealt with have always been really patent and understanding. usually, i send payment straight away, but spend ages on a description. i should just compose something in word and save it i supose

i was confused as well. when you said jan the fith i couldn't remember when the whole issue started, when i read back i thought ''ey?, thats a bit fine isn't it?''. he did respond after your warning and before your cancellations and i cannot see how he was ruder, at least no more rude then you were to him, i think based on two negative feedbacks

the other thing i can't figure is you didn't wait until jan the sixth to cancel, as soon as the calender hit the fith it seems, like you couldn't wait to get rid of him. he had time to respond to you with his slow communication, and you back to him before sending this lengthy post all on the same damned day

i have to say that years ago i was as popular as a fart in a fursuit. i wanted a commish of my charictor really badly but didn't have the guts to ask anyone, so i wound up asking way over the odds for what i was asking. i ended up getting what i payed for more or less

i'm now much more confident and popular, and do love to comish even if i'm not as rich as moldred, but this is the sort of behavior that woul dput me off even now

i you had done this to me rather then moldred i would have shrugged it off thinking well, 101 dollars for robery less then a days work, its your loss, but would have given you bad feedback and written about you here, if of course you didn't beat me to it ;~}

don't mean to be an ass, no offense meant to any donkeys here ;~}, but i am a little upset about this one

just what is the ''normal method of commissioning'' anyhoo? ;~}

[zentora.livejournal.com]

I've had similar problems. Since I've been on furbid, he commissioned me three times. The first time was great, second time, I never heard from him after he told me what he wanted, and the third time went great.

Though on the other side, most artists I've seen (and I)post all requirements on the auction page regarding contact and payment. If not, then the thing to do would be to send all payment info in the congratulatory e-mail while at the same time working out the commission requirements.