Advice needed.

[diprotodontia.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to name any names because the person I'm dealing with hasn't really done anything *wrong* necessarily but has been causing me such stress and grief that I could really use some advice about how to continue to deal with this situation.

I took a commission from a customer about a month ago and since then I have gotten several notes a day from them. Usually these notes are repetitive -- asking if I will be able to make a certain feature on their plush that is CLEARLY noticeable in their reference, asking me repetitively if their project has been started or finished yet when I have told them several times that they can expect it in the beginning of June (and linked them to the page where I list my projects and their current status, which I update several times a day and is extremely reliable). It's like it doesn't matter at all what I say to them -- they just continue to ask me the same kind of unnecessary questions and eat up a lot of my day responding to their notes.

I am starting to get to my wit's end. In the beginning, right after they paid off their commission (because it started immediately), this behavior actually had me insist on offering them a refund and I basically relented because they begged me to continue to agree to their project. It's getting close now to when I have their slot scheduled to be started and I try to be dependable about showing customers their project in several stages if it is quite large or complicated so that they can correct something if they notice it before it gets too far in (basically like a sketch stage or two before a 2D artist would start painting). I am DREADING this process with this customer and really desperately want to just refund them at this point because I am beginning to feel harassed. I am worried though that throwing my hands up at this point and sending their money back will get me bad press or something.

I also generally have no problem actually MAKING their plush and would prefer to just be able to do my work without being harassed. I've honestly never been in this position before with someone and I'm unsure of what the most diplomatic way to deal with it is. I have been firm with them before and told them out-right that they were stressing me out, etc. and it hasn't made a difference at all except occasionally now at the beginning of their notes they will say something like, "I'm sorry if this is annoying..." or, "Tell me if I'm annoying you..." which just stresses me out more.

Comments

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I'd be straight up honest, if they start with 'Sorry to be annoying..' they know they are pushing it already. Just tell them that they are bugging you, and that by doing this they are actaully delaying their commission, and in turn making it harder for you to work. Politely saying that should give them a nice warning without coming off as rude.

[hellebore.livejournal.com]

Tell them they are annoying you (but word it nicer than that, but be FIRM). Tell them you can update them once a week on the progress of their commission, and that you will initiate the update.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Same as the comments above, but if they keep bugging you after that, drop them.

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

Personally I would have refunded them by now.

[kasune.livejournal.com]

Personally? I think you should refund them, tell them their behavior is uncalled for (in a polite manner), and block them afterward.

That's all there is to it. You told this person what they were doing was unacceptable and they refuse to listen.

If you get bad press, you have proof against this person and can plead your case. "I'm sorry if I'm annoying you..." = "I know I'm being annoying, can you forgive me?" That's ridiculous, I wouldn't put up with that at all. I don't blame you for being stressed out and I wish you'd have washed your hands clean of this client via refund for your sake. It sounds awful.

That client sounds like someone I'd never want to work with. What a headache.

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

This this this this!

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

YES, THIS.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

Definitely refund them. Send them their refund, and an attached note saying that they need to nto be up an artist's butt about the same shit if they want things to get done.

That stuff really pisses me off.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

If they're giving you this much stress before their project is even started, it doesn't bode well and I personally would have refunded them by now.

If you wish to continue with the project, tell them firmly that updates will be given by you on a regular basis, and that you will initiate the contact. Any further unsolicited messages from them will be ignored.

Like Skulldog said, they already know that they're pushing it but are continuing to harass you against your wishes. Be professional but firm, not apologetic and above all do NOT lie and say that they're "not bothering you, but..." etc just to be polite, because they won't get the message if you are too nice.

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

Refund them and get out. If they were actually concerned with the PRODUCT they would have backed off once reassurances were made and MAYBE checked in again right before product was started to make sure refercenes were up to date.

That they are continuously messaging you multiple times per day BEFORE you start, despite being told you haven't started indicates what they want is your ATTENTION. They feel they have bought it with the commission. Which means they will drag out the process as long as possible to get the most attention from you. You will likely be in for endless rounds of nitpicking and revisions just to keep the contact going as long as possible.

RUN AWAY.

(edited for incoherent spelling error.)

[maxi.livejournal.com]

Yeah, agreeing with all of this. Refund and get out.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

Do you know why they're sending so many messages and needing repeated confirmation on things? Do they have an anxiety disorder or such? Multiple notes in a day is excessive, esp before the commission is coming up.

I think you did the right thing in asking for less notes to be sent and trying to refund when you realised it was going to be a problem.
I think it would be okay to refund, yes the customer might take offence at it, but it seems you have fair reason to do so. Possibly try making one last warning for a reduction on the amount of notes (i.e one note a week or whatever time frame suits you) or you'll have to refund and then follow through if needed.

Or if you want to carry on with the commission and commissioner doesn't reduce the amount of notes, you could compile each days worth of notes and have some copy and paste answers for things that get asked repeatedly to help save time with replies. Or let them know you'll respond to their notes every 3/5 days etc and not inbetween?

I understand it sucks to have to cancel and feel like you've let a commissioner down. I do have a concern when you get to the commission, how nick picky are they likely to be? I'm a little worried that they might end up sending 5 notes a day wanting changes or confirmation of details which could make the commission very stressful. Of course, that might not be the case at all, i'm just guessing based on their behaviour so far.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I would refund as soon as possible. This kind of stress can really put a dampener on the end product, and the artist! Refund refund refund and run away.

[aerotheacrobat.livejournal.com]

I've had a client like this... in three days, he literally filled 2 pages of FA notes.

I've learned that even telling them that yes, they are being annoying and spending all my time replying means I can't work on his stuff, doesn't help. I suggest refunding fast. I personally don't think stress is worth the money.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I've had a similar customer before... the best thing is just to finish the commission as quickly as possible and get it over with. Sorry it's not a great answer, but we have to deal with a lot of kinds of people as commission artists. u_u

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

Honestly I'm going to repeat what everyone's said here. I would just politely inform them you are not comfortable continuing their commission and refund them.

If this is how they're treating this commission before it's been started, I can definitely see things only compounding when you start it and give status shots.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Be honest. It's hard to work as an artist if you're really stressed out, and them consistently harassing you is not going to help.
If worst comes to worst and they don't stop, I'd issue a refund and go through with it, send it back to them and wash your hands of it.
Issuing a refund because a commissioner is harassing you doesn't sound like it'd get you bad press to me - some artists would outright ignore the commissioner.

[shadowedyoshii.livejournal.com]

Ugh, that sucks. If I were in your position, here's probably what I would do:

-I would issue a clear, firm ultimatum. "The amount of notes you are sending is beyond the pale excessive, stressful and detrimental to my work process. I'm willing to continue this commission, but please understand me that I say that it is on the contingency that the amount of notes you are sending reduces GREATLY, and I'll unfortunately have to refund you if the message load doesn't reduce. You're repeating many of the same questions, too; I can tell you have some specific concerns regarding this commission, so here are the answers to all those questions in one place:

[list of concerns they keep bringing up with answers]

Please, if you feel the urge to ask one of those questions again, refer to this list! Thanks for understanding that it really eats into my time to maintain such correspondence."

-Then stick by it. I might quantify it a little more clearly than my example note, like 1 note/week or "replies upon ME sending correspondence to YOU" or something. If they break those terms, refund, block, move on in your life and don't let them darken your doorstep again. Heck, maybe it could help show them the unacceptable level of their behavior? But really though, they're acting like they have a really unchecked anxiety condition, but they're the one still choosing to click the "send note" button. If it really is a compulsion and not just attention-seeking behavior, I kind of wish I could pass some advice on to them, because I understand; I have GAD.

On the completely off chance that the client is reading this and it IS a case of anxiety: I know you have terrible what-if fears about this commission going completely wrong and you feel like the only way to prevent that is to message the artist so much! But hey, they're gonna get it right, okay? It's a bit of a self-sabotaging compulsion. I understand those. Try writing the notes you want to write in Notepad, and just saving them instead of sending them. It'll get the compulsion out.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't necessarily call this "Beware worthy", but it definitely sounds annoying. If I were you I'd just refund them and move on.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

I've had a client who did that to me this year as well. Started off ok, then it just got worse and worse. The passive aggressive, apologies they use before saying something really hits my buttons too.
If they were honestly sorry, they would not state what they were about to say.

Refund this client and be done with them. I wish I would of with mine. I ended up finishing theirs and barring them from commissions. I would just honestly refund, bar and be done.

[silvertales.livejournal.com]

Generally speaking, people start statements like "sorry if this is annoying" or "hope this doesn't bother you" when they *know* they are going to annoy or bother.

I've had a customer like this before. If previous politely worded statements regarding the sheer amount of notes or contact, or even the pages indicating what is being worked on, when, and regularly updated haven't made a dent in this behavior, then nothing will.

Honestly, I recommend refunding and not doing business with this customer again.

[syrusb.livejournal.com]

I would give them one more firm but polite warning to reduce the notes then refund and probably block if they didn't heed the warning.

Having worked with and spoken with friends with clients who've had the same behaviour, it really doesn't get any better as you progress through the piece. Generally speaking, not worth the hassle.

[neive.livejournal.com]

If its not in your TOS now, make sure you put in a clause for excessive contact/harassment. :/

Since you're not against doing their actual commission a final warning or ultimatum seems to be in order. Tell them that updates need to be initiated by you from here on out, but maybe to ease their concerns of not being "in control" so to speak say they may message you once a week or two (whatever your comfort zone is) if they don't hear from you or see an update on your queue, but NO more. Be firm in that while you want to do the work, this behavior is unacceptable and is only making it difficult to do, and if they're only going to hamper your ability to work its not worthwhile to go through with it. If they actually want you to do the project, they have to trust you to do it - Otherwise, if they refuse or go against your terms give an immediate refund, and if they keep harassing you then block them. Any backlash you'd receive, if any, wouldn't be very much since you've already tried to reason with them about this.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I think as long as "excessive" is defined, there shouldn't be a problem. So something like "Excessive contact will not be tolerated and will result in a prompt refund. Excessive is defined as more than two notes per day for more than three consecutive days" or whatever should be fine.

[kasune.livejournal.com]

If it helps, this is what I have in my TOS:

"Questions regarding commission updates are welcome, with a limit to twice a week. Continuous messages and/or harassment for updates will result in a cancellation of the commission with a refund minus work completed."

It's worded nicely, with a bit of a firm warning.

[neive.livejournal.com]

Yeah, like most things if its worded poorly then it definitely doesn't help - For mine and most others I've seen though its simply a "if they're causing me to feel harassed then I have the right to terminate the commission and refund them." They usually say the amounts that are acceptable too, such as one or two messages a week about progress. (Mine is worded better than that, but that's the gist of it.) I don't get to just walk off with their money, and worst case scenario is they don't get a full refund if there's been a lot of work done on the project and something happened to make us no longer able to work together. Then its a refund minus cost of work already completed.

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

"Tell them that updates need to be initiated by you from here on out, but maybe to ease their concerns of not being "in control" so to speak say they may message you once a week or two (whatever your comfort zone is) if they don't hear from you or see an update on your queue, but NO more."

This is an excellent idea, too.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

I had a similar client, though not as excessive in the notes - he did ask two or three times in one week if I had progress to show him when he was third in the queue, which I had shown him.

I did indeed refund him and I did have to block him because he then proceeded to apologize in several more notes in a ridiculous over the top manner - "please forgive me, we can still be friends, why are you doing this to me, just give me one more chance" etc. He really did think we were friends after zero non-business small talk or chat, and I wonder if that isn't how your client sees you as well.

As for your concern for bad press - my refunded client did make a journal saying how terrible I was (and linked me by name) and that since he had just been dumped I was just making his life more horrible, etc etc. I did get a tiny backlash from his friends but that was it. I think you should be fine if the same happens to you; you have good documentation of the sheer level of communication and his refusal to accommodate your very reasonable request.

As I explained to my client, I truly believe that in a transaction there is some onus on the client to be professional, not just the artist - if they cannot restrain themselves with unwanted, unnecessary communication, then the transaction cannot take place in a satisfactory manner, simple as that.

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

Dude.
I have had a guy like this. And let me tell ya right now, no matter what he's paying you, it is NOT worth it.
No matter how much they beg, or whine, or plead, or cry, just give them a refund and a polite, proffessional note about why it had to be done. If he keeps noting you, then put him on your blacklist.
Trust me, it is so not worth it. Like, i can't even express it to you.

Oh and if your worried about bad press, don't. Burn journals aren't allowed on FA, so if you see one, then all you need to do it report it.
When i refunded my guy, i was expecting burns and backlash, but nothing happened :L As long as you stay professional, you shouldn't have much to worry about.

edited to add a bit of info i left out

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

I must be lucky, I don't think I've EVER had someone that needy!

Sending one message a day (before or during production) seems excessive to me. Sending MORE than one message a day is unacceptable. This is harassment, whether or not your client means it intentionally or maliciously.

I'd say you have two great choices:

1) Tell them they have not behaved in a way that makes you comfortable with doing their project, refund them their money, and add them to your Black List.

2) Tell them they have not behaved in a way that makes you comfortable with doing their project, inform them that you will not tolerate anymore multi-note-days from them, and get through their product as soon as you're able. Then, the Black List.

Personally, I'd go with #1.

[alpharaye.livejournal.com]

This.
I'd go with refunding, letting them know the issue and then Blacklisting.

You don't deserve harassment.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I had a client recently that managed to find a phone number I use and called it in order to harass me (they called five times in the same day and, sorry dude, but I have a full time day job so it's not like I could have answered if I wanted to).

I refunded him immediately, told him I didn't want to do business with him, and thankfully there hasn't been any backlash (or at least not enough that I have to worry about it).

[stormrunner1981.livejournal.com]

Refund and move one.

I don't even take payment up front and I told someone before that I cannot work if I'm stressed due to medical and I would update as I did stuff.

They contacted me EVERY DAY sometimes 3 times a day if I didn't respond right away. And that was BEFORE I got a rough sketch done. After that it was much much worse.

The stress isn't worth it.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Echoing everyone else, but it doesn't hurt to have more validation!

Refund him and don't even feel bad. No one will fault you, especially if you can show the sheer volume of notes.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

Everyone's got really good advice so I'll just say that it depends on if you *really* need the money from this project or not (as it sounds like he's already paid up.)

If you need the money, be firm but not overly polite and tell him that he needs to stop badgering you with notes. YOU will contact him when you have updates and link him again to your queue. Tell him that if he continues to badger you after this last warning, you will refund him and not work with him again. After the project is complete, do not work with him again and block if you want.

If you don't need the money, tell him that you are refunding him due to his continued harassment and then feel free to block him. It may be that he's seeking your attention, in which case he may continue to apologize to you about it after you've stopped business contact.

[physicsqueen.livejournal.com]

You shouldn't feel compelled to work for this person out of guilt. I think the amount of communication you're getting, and the fact that you've been patient and tried to respond their notes to the best of your ability shows that you made a very good faith effort to work with this person. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like they appreciate your patience. The "sorry if I'm annoying" can also be a way of guilt tripping you / being emotionally manipulative, which can be hard to deal with. Definitely refund this person, the process isn't going to get easier or more respectful as it goes along.

I had a similar client who was excessive about contact stuff and had gone to the point of contacting my husband and my friends in addition to contacting me. Be prepared to deal with this person being upset when you refund them / blacklist them. Don't cave. My dude went through a cycle of being really apologetic and really angry, and I was tempted to just give in to get it over with, but in the end, having clearly defined limits and sticking by them was definitely the best approach.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

i refunded a guy once for a similar thing, and he popped back up 3 months later with a different name, same character.

i'd say take the preemptive strike here and refund. if they are this pushy now i can only imagine how hard it will be to please them artwise :(

[koohiimonsutaa.livejournal.com]

Maybe its time to say YES YOU'RE ANNOYING ME.

Or just don't respond to the messages all day.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

If you can take the hit of the refund [and make sure to factor in emotional distress here!] I'd say refund the person. That's excessive and disrespectful, and if they're that way now I can only imagine it would get worse. Even if they never get rude, the project would just be one of terror and misery until it was over. If you back out now it will likely save you a lot of headache in the long run.

(also hey, it's oliver)

[ocelotish]

Personally what I'd do is let the customer know that you will only be responding to them once a day (say from 8 to 9 in the evening) and you will address any concerns they have emailed then. Just say responding constantly is breaking your work flow. Then just put it into action. If the client can't take it, then they can't take it and you can always refund them.