Artists Beware- DracoJeff [UPDATED 7-8-2013]

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

WHO: DracoJeff, DrayJay, DJ, Draco, Jay

WHERE: Further Confusion 2012, San Jose, CA.
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/dracojeff/

WHAT: Digital Art commission, full color, paid for in full at time of transaction with the understanding that a physical 8x10 print would be sent to my address at time of its completion.

WHEN: January 15th, 2012, to May 31st, when I received a flat out “No” that the promised corrections would not be done.



PROOF/EXPLANATION: I commissioned him in person on January 15, 2012 for a color digital image, plus a print to be shipped to me. Received a digital version of the "final" on February 17, but the colors were incorrect and the anatomy needed a bit of a correction. He was reluctant at first, but then agreed. Communication throughout was very slow; he often had forgotten who I was when I sent reminder notes. Over 8 solid months of silence eventually passed. He then changed his mind about making the corrections, and offered to do a sketch to make up for it, which he hinted would be rushed and shoddy. I never received a print of even the non-corrected version. I asked for a small refund (the cost of the print he never shipped plus $5 for not making the corrections), to which he responded with a long rant about his troubles. I had previously offered to give him a full year plus reimbursement payment for the corrections he promised to make.

Note: This is a “Square” credit/debit card slider receipt that was emailed to me. The map at top shows the location of the San Jose Convention Center/Marriot Hotel, site of Further Confusion, at 301 South Market Street. http://imageshack.us/f/109/receiptfromdracojeff.png/



A few days after the convention I noted him, just to check in, and received a reply,
http://imageshack.us/f/27/dracojeffconversation1.png/

And a short time later, received the finished picture, Warning, picture on the address is NSFW- www.furaffinity.net/view/7417184
In this cap he says he will mail me a physical copy of the print when he can. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/dracojeffconversation3.png/


Here I stated that there were problems with the pic, and that I wanted them to be corrected. He is against making the changes at first, but agrees to make the corrections later on.
http://imageshack.us/f/15/dracojeffconversation5.png/


Says he would “love” to fix up my commission, and that its just about time limitations
http://imageshack.us/f/94/dracojeffconversation6.png/


I waited about a week and then got back to him; he reaffirmed that he would send me a physical, 8x10 copy of the picture, once the queue had been gotten to a manageable level.
http://imageshack.us/f/404/dracojeffconversation7.png/


Says he will make the corrections for free. http://imageshack.us/f/221/dracojeffconversation8.png/



4 months later I had still not heard from him, I noted him, and he had forgotten who I
was, but soon remembered me, and again assured me he was plugging away.
http://imageshack.us/f/24/dracojeffconversation11.png/


Just shy of three months later, I sent another note, asking how his queue was going. Unbelievably, he had forgotten me again.
http://imageshack.us/f/6/dracojeffconversation13.png/
I sent him the reference pics I had sent him months previously again.

8 months and some weeks passed without any contact with him at all. I sent him emails, and also notes, stating that I was willing to wait another year if necessary, and also to pay him well for the alterations. I wanted to believe that he was just busy, but my outbox on FA showed clearly that he had read all the notes I had sent trying to establish contact.
~http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/dracojeffoutbox1.png/
~http://imageshack.us/f/853/dracojeffoutbox2.png/


During this time of waiting, I heard he had been in a serious car accident. Call me callous, call me unfeeling and mean, but I still wanted my commission fixed. He had promised to see to it, and I firmly believed that my offer of another year to complete it and reimbursement for his troubles would strike him favorably. But note that it was always on the condition that we keep in touch. Still I heard nothing.


Sent one last note offering to pay for the corrections and that I was willing to wait for them. Here he refuses to do the corrections. http://imageshack.us/f/18/dracojeffconversation14.png/
He spoke of owing work to people, as if I was not one of them. But I wanted closure. And this time, it was my turn to be firm but fair.
I replied, saying that if what he said was true, then a refund was in order. I asked for $15.





Here he denies ever saying he would send me a print
http://imageshack.us/f/842/dracojeffconversation15.png/

He was treating me like an absolute moron, as if I needed to have explained to me the difference between physical things, and things on the internet.
Immediately I went back into my inbox and found my proof that he had promised to mail a physical 8x10 print to me and said that closure was what we both needed.





He fumes about his personal problems, the message appears to be written by two people. (i.e. “give the guy a damned break”) http://imageshack.us/f/41/dracojeffconversation16.png/
He offered me a sketch worth the higher refund price I had asked for, then in the same breath virtually guaranteed that he would deliberately do a slip-shot job on it.

UPDATE 7-8
Yikes, where to begin here? I sent a note to DracoJeff with the link to the A_B post I made about him, hoping we could work something out. His reply was cagey, but he said that he was willing to work with me on it, and said he would refund me the shipping and printing for the image he never mailed me, and would also fix the colors of the pic. Within days he sent me a pic with the fixed colors, and I was thrilled, and he also said he might be able to fix the anatomy, which he proceeded to do. He showed genuine remorse, and I was moved by his consideration, assuring him that once I had received the refund, that I would edit my post to show that he had completely fulfilled his obligations.
He brought up something he said in the first cap provided in this update, that he wouldn’t lift a finger until the post was gone. It was not my obligation to tell him the rules of the site, which he could easily have read on his own. But what really put my mind at ease was when he sent me the pics with the right colors, and different builds, I assumed he had read that the posts could not be deleted; why else would he have done them after he said he wouldn’t? Apparently he hadn’t read it, and asked why the post was still there. I sensed a storm coming, and so I shared a very painful personal experience of mine with him that I thought was relevant. I reiterated that we were so close to being done, and that I would tell all that he had come around. On the advice of a Mod, I removed this story, and his references to it (Also blurred are an email address, and links to explicit ref pics). I told him the post could not be removed.
His final reply left me speechless: He accused me of tricking him, of making drama, and demanded I remove all traces of him from the post, and say it was all my fault. He dangled the finished commission over my head, saying I would see it only when he was satisfied with my post. Finally, he threatened to black my name among his various artist friends.
PROOF:

http://imageshack.us/f/90/vma.png/
Offers to redo the colors and refund the price of the physical print

http://imageshack.us/f/856/th03.png/
Says he will get right on the pic

http://imageshack.us/f/855/vo.png/
Shows remorse, sends me the pic with proper colors and build

http://imageshack.us/f/838/l9ur.png/
Asks why I haven’t deleted the post

http://imageshack.us/f/543/r4g.png/
This one has to be seen to be believed


Do not EVER commission this guy!

Comments

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Hello, I've accepted this post but could you edit your cut? they seem to not be working, thanks!

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

Yes, I will try and get on it, tomorrow, thought I had it nailed on the first go! >.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I don't get how him living in California is some sort of magic excuse he can use to avoid doing something he promised/he screwed up/you paid for.

Did he not show you a sketch of it, and just jumped straight to coloring? Was there some agreement at the con that there wouldn't be a sketch stage?

Either way, the coloring all appears to be digital. All he would have to do is filter it a bit to get that part fixed. Even if he did the lines traditionally - just print it, fix it, then trace it onto another sheet, scan it and replace the linework. It wouldn't take terribly long. Be annoying, yes, but that's what happens when you don't confirm the sketch with the customer. :P

Also the remark about "It's a digital file, how would I ship it to you?" That would have driven me up the wall. It's called Kinkos, they would have printed that just fine. @ _@

(frozen)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Actually, Kinkos has personal user stations that many folks (adult illustrators and such) go and use for print work, it's pretty common as long as you're not handing over the files to the clerk and keep it to the private stations. There's also many many many online print retailers that accept adult rated prints and single runs.

But given the notes, I believe the artist in question sounds like he does home printing, so this is all moot.

(frozen)

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

It's not that risque. There's no nipples or vagina or anuses. I don't think the printer would have done much but giggled.

I've seen people get much, much worse printed at public places.

(frozen)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Ah, just mentioning this before we get a bit off topic. Take this to Pms if you both want to discuss it further, but AB isn't really here to talk about personal feelings on whats risque or not.

(frozen)

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry that you, personally, would not be comfortable with doing that, but we're not talking about you, personally.

This is about an artist who said they would print it, knowing full well what the end product would look like, and they should be adult enough to be able to find a place that would print it if they're not able to print it on their own.

(frozen)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Gonna go ahead and freeze this, as it's OT. Sorry!

[duster.livejournal.com]

I live in California and somehow I manage to fulfill my obligations. I'm not even sure about the logic on that excuse.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Same here. :P Always pay rent first, people. Then electric, then food.

This may be off-topic now though, so we should probably not continue this conversation. xD

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

In fact, he did not send me a sketch at all, and just did it all, dried and done, and then sent me a pic of the finished picture. In fact I have a note from him (will include if needed) where he says he might shoot me a preview of it, but he never did.

The colors were all off as well, I had at the con specified fur as light tan and hair and freckles as blood red, and the colors in the pic are very muddy and muted.

Yes, the digital file quip, as well as the "most difficult customer" line really steamed me.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Excuse him?

He's taking money for a service, that makes him a business. If he didn't want to deal with clients asking for changes on a full color, then he should have shown you a WIP sketch to ensure that's what you wanted. If he doesn't have the time for that, then he should have made it clear that this is a "what you see is what you get" deal.

He promised you a print, and he owes you a refund for it.

I'm personally really disliking this "I do this as a hobby". It's not an excuse to have poor customer service and to literally cheat your clients out of owed goods.

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Seriously, I do this for a hobby too, but take my CS seriously.

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

Not only does the simple transaction make him a business, but all vendors are required to get a temporary license of some kind to sell at Further Confusion, so in the eyes of the State, at least for a time, he was a business of sorts.

Thank you all for bringing up the lack of a preview pic, that had completely gone out of my mind since then! He could have avoided all of this, I could have seen the...er, assets, and then said they needed adjusting.

[duster.livejournal.com]

Guy's got some nerve stringing you along and then throwing in the line "A small donation would be appreciated." For what?

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

Agreed. At first I was dead set against a donation of any kind, but by and by I was willing to discuss with him what he thought was a fair price for reimbursement, but he refused to speak to me for many months after that offer.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I don't know what you originally told him but I think asking for the pic to be redrawn (ie, bigger butt) at the final stage is too much. At some point you said "I think I might be willing to pay for changes" but did you realize you're asking him to remake the whole piece? Redrawing the anatomy will mean a new sketch, new inks, new colors. So you'd pretty much have to pay him for a new piece for it to be "fair", unless there was some glaring error on the artist's part (ie, said they'd send WIPs and didn't, or said they'd make the butt at least X size and didn't, etc).

Changing the colors shouldn't be such a big deal though, I'm surprised he didn't do that. And there's no excuse for not sending the print, nor dumping his personal problems on you.

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

Well, I have in my own mind what a "big butt" is, I thought it would carry over without needing clarification. I was wrong.

He never sent me previews, although he said he might shoot me a preview before he posted the final, and never did.

At the end of the day, although he was against it initially, he said not only would he fix the colors, but he would make her butt bigger. I didn't concern myself with how he would, he said he would do it.

And I agree on the colors, frankly I was shocked that he didn't get them right, light tan means tan, not grey, and blood red means that, not brown. I have no caps for this color spec from the off, unfortunately, only my word that I specified it face to face with him.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

"Big" is pretty subjective, it's true the artist agreed to do changes but FYI for future commissions it comes off as pretty demanding to ask an artist for a complete redo of subjective problems without offering to pay for it. "might" provide a WIP is also not really the same as promising to clear a WIP with you before proceeding, which would be grounds for requesting a free redo.

Not saying the artist is right in all this just saying that particular request struck me as off.

[wyla.livejournal.com]

I find it really hard to understand why he wasn't willing to do the changes. All I can think of is that he didn't keep the layered version of the file? With layers intact a colour change and some manipulation of the line-art on her butt would take about five minutes. Heck, even on a flat jpeg file you could manage that within 20 minutes. Charging extra for it? Sure, that's up to the artist. It just baffles me to see such a situation caused from what is (to me at least) such a simple fix.

He definitely still owes you a print from what I can tell too so that's kinda shady.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if maybe the artist didn't save layers either?

I disagree that making the butt bigger would just take 5 min tho; I guess it would depend on the artist and how they go about it, but for me making it look natural would probably require redrawing the whole stance and anatomy, not just nudging a line or two out. Then everything would have to be recolored again.

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

In my eyes, the artist seemed to be handling things ok- until that whole waiting a year for a simple fix thing. And then his 'a donation would be appreciated' quip. Really? Really????? And then he has the nerve to make that remark about being unable to ship the file because it's digital.
I just want to scream.
I think im going to have a permanently furrowed brow for the rest of the day. And whether or not he 'considers' himself a business, he took money in exchange for a service. That makes him a business, whether he likes it or not. :/ And he pretty much jipped you out of a print. 8/
My advice to the Commissioner: DON'T let others step all over you, especially the people taking money. It doesn't matter if they get sick or hurt or have lots of bills to pay (in that case they shouldn't be taking commissions)if they take your money in exchange for a service, they should provide that service to you.
SIGH

(frozen)

[pekoeko.livejournal.com]

Just thought I'd come in and point out that those are STOCK PHOTOS of Carnations, a type of flower.

http://tutorial9.s3.amazonaws.com/u.....er-gallery.jpg

I think the fixes you were asking for should have been easy peasy. But he probably didn't save the large file when he was done.

I DO agree with a few other posts here though, that you should have been more specific about 'big'. An artist with no references cannot read your mind and interpret big the same way you do.

(frozen)

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

The link doesn't work for me, and I went through my imageshack links, I'm not seeing the Carnations you mentioned.

(frozen)

[pekoeko.livejournal.com]

I don't have the exact photo.
That photo above is a photo comparison to show that the technique was used.

I just recognized the carnation from the shape, and knew about the filter/noise by looking/being familiar with photoshop.

You can only get that look with a photo though.

(frozen)

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

I had that thought, as well, but couldn't find the exact image, myself.

Since we do not have the exact image used, this thread is just speculation, so I'm freezing it for now. If someone believes they find proof of improper photo usage, please PM me and the other mods and I can evaluate it.

UPDATED

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

Have updated this post, 7-8-2013.

Re: UPDATED

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

Wow I don't know what to say at all really after looking at the third and final links.

Re: UPDATED

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

Likewise, I was speechless for half an hour after I read it. He basically demanded I say it was all my fault! Unreal.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Wow, those new notes are terrible behaviour.

So the AB post was the only thing that made him actually do the work he should have done in the first place, he knows he was wrong to not do it and somehow you posting the AB makes you wrong?

I'd say let him talk to other artists, all you have to do is show this post to any artists who might have a concern with you and let this guy's terrible attitude speak for itself.

Apologies don't come with conditions. The point of an apology is admit your are wrong and to make it know you accept that and will work to not make the same mistake again- apologies are not to try and gain something for yourself.

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

I really couldn't believe his attitude. Yes, after I made the post and notified him, and we talked a bit, he finally did those corrected pics you can see.
That's a tricky thing, that. The only way I'd know if an artist who talked to him had a problem with me is if I tried to contact said artist and found out I was blocked, and then there'd be nothing I could do.
I'm really hoping to get some more comments on this update, it outdoes the first post easily. I didn't give him this update link, although I wanted to.

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

It was a personal story that I related to him when I felt like I was losing the commission. I thought it was relevant to the situation, and hoped he would take heart from it. I omitted it at the advice of one of the Mods. They were worried it would bring up old drama. He references it in his last note, which is also blurred.

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

I actually did >.<
Towards the end of the main paragraph after the Update sign.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Wow, no.

First off, no one is leaving him nasty comments. They shouldn't be leaving nasty comments as it is against A_B's rules and will get members banned.

Second, he can't blame this on you when he promised these things from the get go. I really can't stand that notion that he's doing you a favor to do something that came with the price tag of your image.

The last bit of holding the image hostage? Scummy. Pure scummy. Beware very, very well warranted.

[brettrend.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I thought- there's no sign of even a "shout deleted" on his page, so yeah he just made that up.

This is by and away the worst artist experience I've had in years. The sad thing is I don't even think HE is aware that I updated with the stuff he forbade me from using >.

[zzyzx.livejournal.com]

Well, if you have a copy of the digital image, I have a professional photo printer in my house that I use to make prints of my digital work, so I can ship a copy off to you for free, if you'd like. Just note me on FA, my username is Zzyzx there as well. If you have a higher resolution piece, or the piece with the colors edited, that would be best. The higher the resolution, the better the print will look.

Sorry you went through all this, hon.