Comments-disabled post re-post: Beware: Marc Leonhardt

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

The OP of this post chose to disable comments, refused to re-enable them, and has been subsequently banned. I am re-posting this to allow members to comment once again regarding this transaction.

EDIT: MOD NOTE: I understand it is natural to be curious about the details of a re-post. I have allowed the first several comments discussing it. However, the point of this re-post is to enable comments and discussion on the transaction, itself. Please keep future commentary focused on that, thank you.

To note: the customer's comment of "Is it THAT difficult.." was discussed in-depth in the previous post and was considered addressed and closed by the moderators. Please do not make additional comments regarding that small part of this transaction.

Comments

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

I think this is one of those cases where the OP has managed to make a beware on themselves as well as the person they're posting about. After the OP's behaviour in the comments of the original post, I think I'd rather not do business with them or Marc Leonhardt.

Also add me as another person who was really rubbed the wrong way by the 'is it THAT difficult to make?' line, and I do a lot of work in polymer clay.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Understandably, people chose to focus on that one particular thing. Which is why we mods specifically said that topic had been addressed repeatedly and was to be considered closed.

One new comment was made after that, which I fully intended to address, but unfortunately by the time I got back home to take care of it, comments had been disabled.

I need to update this post that the "is it THAT difficult" line is still considered closed for discussion.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Definitely a "do not want" customer, really quite a beware on both sides.

[duster.livejournal.com]

Whoa, I didn't think that post was that volatile. Is it out of line to ask what happened?

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

I am curious as well. I missed everything that went on in the comments.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I missed it as well. It was going decently the last I looked at it.

[dannyazazel.livejournal.com]

From what I saw, people were saying how the "Is it that difficult to make" line had rubbed them the wrong way. The OP replied how he him self made one and it wasn't hard for him to make. He just didn't take the criticism well.

However if anything else beyond that went on, I didn't see and sadly didn't get any screen caps either.

Edited because I used the wrong pronouns.

[ansitru.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of regretting not having kept the page open. I still have the replies in my inbox though. I will screenshot and share if needed once I get back to my computer.

Basically, I made the first comment about that line , but explaining that I did think their beware was wholly justified. I then got two huge wall of text replies both from the commissioner and his boyfriend, in what I felt was an accusatory tone (I could be interpreting it wrongly, again I would gladly share the replies if needed) for pointing out what I did about that comment.

And then more people picked in on the comment stating they felt similar (please note that I did not anticipate or encourage this) and OP got (from what I saw understandably) fed up.

[mortymaxwell.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's time to add something to the community guidelines letting OP's know people will express an opinion on their role in their posts as well? I can think of several incidents, 'sides this one, where someone posted, didn't like what they were hearing about what *they* could have done differently, and reacted badly.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

Seconded, I think some people post here not expecting to hear anything negative about how they handled the issue.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

It's hard to warn people in a ruleset against everything they might or might not "expect" to happen. But a fair review is something that's pretty basic common sense, imo. I don't honestly feel it should be outlined in the guidelines. (Ones that already go unread often)

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think we've put about as many warnings to behave as we could in the rules. If you make the rules TOO detailed and wordy, they become almost worthless. It's like putting too much info on a road sign--try all you want, you'll never be able to read a paragraph on a sign as you drive past at 70 mph, and in trying to do so you'll probably cause trouble with the other drivers around you.

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

a good idea in theory, but if people don't follow the "no deleting/disallowing comments" rule a new rule probably isn't going to help in cases like this :/

[dannyazazel.livejournal.com]

You know even from her beware I wasn't too sure about her, but I was more focused on the artist originally. After this, yeah, beware on both sides.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

(Just FYI before others pick up on this; OP is a "he".)

[dannyazazel.livejournal.com]

My bad! I was reading another beware before this and got the genders swapped.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

I too was like "big whup" tbqh. I see they had an English fail, they explained themselves all anyone needed to say beyond that was that they get it but hope they word themselves better later on.

OP already was feeling bullied after a point. Yes, NO ONE is safe from critique in this comm, but there is only so many ways to argue that poor wording before it looks like that's all we cared about.

I understand they were bothered, I just wish that A) my communal request to knock off was heeded and B) they just left silently. Oh well. Nothing of value was lost.

(frozen)

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

OP's reaction aside, I noticed that a lot of people can't help but dogpile on one comment to agree with a criticism or scold the maker of the comment. I understand the need to say your mind, but when there are 10+ comments that basically say the same thing, I think the only thing more comments would add is a sense of being overwhelmed.

(frozen)

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

When the person comes back with rebuttals that raise further points though, sometimes those further points invite one to address them. That's why I made a comment on the subject. I did think that the comment itself had been addressed, but the OP's additional comments about how he was certain what the artist could do in a specific time because of what *he* could do in a specific time made me want to explain that as a full time artist one's work process can be significantly different from that of someone doing it as a hobby.

As a hobby, you are doing it in your time off, so you could decide to make something, set to making it tomorrow, and have it done the day after, but when the art is your work, it's going to get done on a specific schedule that includes all the other projects you work on, and so that looks quite different.

I really didn't have anything to say about the comment itself, that *was* already address, but I seriously did not intend to dogpile, I was trying to explain something they had brought up. If they had just said "drop it" instead of going to great lengths to justify the comment, (and in doing so saying something that showed a misunderstanding that I felt could be politely corrected) there wouldn't have been anything for me to respond to and I would have dropped it.

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Alright, that's enough, you guys. The repost was not intended for everyone to talk about the OP and the comment in question. Points have been made on all sides, and if anyone wants to discuss it further, take it to PMs, but please get back on topic of the transaction itself.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

On SynjoDeinecros' initial post I was on his side and thought it was understandable that the repeated statements that he was rude from the other A_B users were upsetting him. Like fastbreak333 said, people tend to dogpile and it's obnoxious.

But disabling comments? He's placed himself squarely into the :"do not do business with"-category alongside Leonhardt.

And the "beware" for Leonhardt is entirely warranted; half a year without even a WIP? If it was in the clay mold stage, why not snap a picture with your phone and mail it to the customer?

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

I specifically stated there would be no further discussion on the re-post issue. In addition, you commented in the old post regarding the "is it that difficult" line well after a moderator had specifically said not to.

Based on the combination of these two things, I am giving you an official warning, as well as a recommendation to read more carefully and heed moderators' notices before posting. I am also screening your comment here.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

I'd still do business with OP;

He got overwhelmed and bombarded. While I don't agree with disabling comments, that's how he chose to react versus being told things he already knew over and over again. It's a better outcome then some of the ones we've seen here.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Stay on topic, please. Comments on the repost and the OP and 'that comment' will get a warning and will be frozen. Stick to the actual beware and the transaction posted about!

[yarbro.livejournal.com]

Someone close had also had business issues, very similar, with Marc Leonhardt nearly a year ago. I suggested my friend to take it to Artist Beware. I hope my friend follows through- but we will see.

Leonhardt's behavior is no surprised at all. :/ I am kind of shock how much business he still gets.

I am almost have this numbed of his poor behavior- that is a very bad sign.

[thecreativepen.livejournal.com]

The timeframe alone of the transaction is beware enough for me. Almost half a year with no WIPs? Seems like an unreasonable amount of time for a wait. I'm glad the OP was able to get a refund, and it's a shame it was done with negative feedback from the artist. Could have had a civil end for both sides, and reflected better on the artist in question that they were willing to make good on a bad transaction.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

Based on Leonhardt's track record, I can safely say he's on my no-commissions list. He posts plenty of journals, but never a commissioner update it looks like... Not even a ballpark estimate of when he can get back to work on things.

[mottenfest.livejournal.com]

Marc actually gave me the run-around too until I said I wanted a refund. Hitting him in the wallet seemed like the only way to get him to move forward with things.
The unfortunate part is, when I finally got the badge, I feel uncomfortable wearing it to conventions because everyone starts telling me their Marc commission horror stories. ><

I'll echo others and suggest folks avoid Marc Leonhart.

*edit to fix sentence structure.