Beware: NightCloudFluffyTail

[muzz.livejournal.com]

Hello!
So this is my first post on here, forgive me if I do something wrong or.. mess something up. I'm a little nervous about doing this.


WHO:
NightCloudFluffyTail

WHERE:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/nightcloudfluffytail/

WHAT:
Character Auction (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9963799/ SFW) // Furaffinity // Notes etc

WHEN:
Feb 19th 2013 - Present

PROOF:
Here is a list of all the people she owe's money to currently: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44590179/A_B5.jpg
Screenshot of original payment made to me: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44590179/A_B1.jpg
Screenshot of user's shouts: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44590179/A_B2.jpg
Screenshot of user's 1st note: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44590179/A_B3.jpg
Screenshot of journal regarding what she's done: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44590179/A_B4.jpg

EXPLAIN:
So back in February (19th, 2013), I posted a picture with various characters on it for auction. Most of them did pretty well, and the user 'NightCloudFluffyTail' bid on several of them. She ended up winning 'Kicho' (the leopard looking thing) and she paid straight away ($30 in total).

Fast forward to May 17th 2013 and I get an email from paypal saying that I was being issued a chargeback from that original payment. I was confused, and I've never had one before, so I researched it, and then proceeded to check out her FA to find out more. Turns out I wasn't the only person who received a chargeback from her that day. Later I get a note from her explaining that she basically used her grandparents credit card to pay for her commissions and other furry items over the internet, and they found out. So the grandparents (supposedly) were issuing the chargebacks for all the purchases made. The next day, she makes a journal explaining (kind of) what she's done, seemingly having a lot of angry artists on her case including myself. She says she will pay people back when she gets the money somehow, or a job etc. At this point I'm starting to feel like this probably isn't going to happen.

All the while I am fighting my case with Paypal. I sent them screenshots of everything that was being relayed between myself and her, screenshots of the work I did, her payment, how it was all legit etc, but eventually I was lumped with fee's and they went in favour of the 'grandparents'. I am aware that digital artwork is not protected by paypal, so I figured I would most likely lose my money. I have since asked her to remove the character she won from me from her gallery, but I have kept the original post up regarding her bidding on, and winning the auction. I've kept all her notes as well, but in the long run, nothing has come out of this.

I have checked the various sites she's on and gone through journals checking up as to what she is doing, but I eventually gave up. I posted warnings about her on my art-twitter account as I know I was not able to call her out on Furaffinity. I DID contact dragoneer about her, but nothing really came of it.

She is still active on her FA, and I am pretty sure she is still buying things, but there's nothing much I can do, nor the other artists she has possibly scammed. So I thought I'd make this entry about her and at LEAST warn people about what she's done/possibly still doing. Again, apologies if I've done this all wrong x_x;

Comments

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

Oh gosh! Why won't neer suspend this user.? This is an awful thing to do to people! This upsets me a lot. Blocked her for sure. No thank you!

[muzz.livejournal.com]

The only reason I think suspending her was a bad idea is because then she wouldn't really be able to contact the artists she owes (no idea if she still uses the paypal account, or if every artist has contact details available publicly), but it seems she has been now so I don't know.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

Mmmmh at least she acknowledged what she did, but I'm bit side-eyeing the mentions of "if you fight and my Paypal gets terminated it'll be harder to pay you" (is there some term that she'd never be able to get another Paypal to pay people?) and "oh no my animal may be dying" right after "please don't make me feel worse though I deserve it" since though she may have not meant, it comes off bit guilt-inducing in this situation. (And I'm not generally fond of important announcement journals like this that are mixed with personal issues)

Generally I would keep pestering her about paying back on occasion (and she's also selling characters currently it seems).

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry this happened to you and its good that you are warning other artists about her. can chargebacks like this only occur with credit cards?

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Considering you need some kind of card / bank account to fully use paypal (And even with just a plain account, you can still be charge-backed) i'd assume yes.

[stormrunner1981.livejournal.com]

Start using invoices to your customers. This is to everyone.

They are under "my paypal -> request money" you can customize them and everything. Put in your TOS, mention it is a digital commission etc.

This is to protect you in cases like this. They use to have a drop down menu that included digital media, but now you can include a link to the art etc just in case.

Hope this helps.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

I use invoices already, but is there something magical about them that protects sellers from chargebacks? I always thought invoices were basically the same as having a client send money themselves, except that with an invoice you make sure you get paid in the right currency, for the right amount, not via "gift", that sort of thing.

Not that it's happened yet, but I'm always worried that someone will try to chargeback a fursuit, which is generally hundreds of dollars and PP doesn't always side with the right person, ya know? :/

[muzz.livejournal.com]

I use invoices now, but I find that I still need to explain to people how to pay them. I cannot set the address details, I have to make sure they do it on their end. I must make sure that address details for the commissions I do are set to 'no physical delivery required', but you cannot do that via invoices. Whether its different to the US paypal site I don't know, but I've never been able to do it.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Invoices do not stop chargebacks. I have been charged (and lost) with them. Paypal almost always sides with the seller, even with proof provided.

Plus, CC companies go over PP, and are even harder to dispute.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

"if you fight and my Paypal gets terminated it'll be harder to pay you"

Calling bullshit. I was part of the two MAJOR chargeback cases that were brought to A_B, over both of them I ended up losing over $600 (I did get paid back by both parties, thankfully) and I fought the disputes and didn't lose my account.


Edit: Oops misread it, pardon me. I should really not ever type anything after waking up.

[bazeel-pooka.livejournal.com]

I am currently looking in on this issue.

[bazeel-pooka.livejournal.com]

Administrative action has been taken, the user has been directed to this post, and given multiple methods to contact staff once a resolution has been worked out. Please let me know if further assistance is needed. Thanks!

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Thanks Bazeel.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

Thank you Bazeel!

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Considering she's also selling characters she bought (or "bought" as it may be) I'm glad Bazeel put the kibosh on her.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, while you didn't do anything wrong and don't deserve having the money taken away, her grandparents also don't deserve to be stolen from either.
And I totally think she deserves to have her paypal terminated for theft.

Thanks for the warning, I hope something gets worked out! Maybe you can reauction the character?

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

There's a thought!

[muzz.livejournal.com]

The thing is, its just what she says. A big, big part of me doesn't believe that story in the slightest, so while I do agree, if it is true, but at the same time its not my fault that she /stole/ their card and used it. Either way I'm just not sure about her story, and I know I will not get my money back. Shortly after all this popped up again and I asked her, she blocked me and said I was harassing her, so.. I'm washing my hands of the whole thing now. I don't care. But I'm glad I decided to at least warn people about her in case she does manage to come back.

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

I don't believe the grandparents bit at all.

Sounds like nothing but an excuse.

[silia-hollow.livejournal.com]

while I do not have enough proof on my end, she adopted traditional characters from me, totaling 30$. I thought i was paid when 30$ were transferred to my paypal. I sent out the artwork to her. However, the money had not been from her. So i messaged her as soon as I realized this and she said she would pay me asap.

Months went by I still hadn't gotten the 30$ she was supposed to pay me for the characters and art. Finally, i got a response on skype after COUNTLESS unanswered notes.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qabhlrm4q09aam/Photo%20Sep%2007%2C%209%2043%2050%20PM.png
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kwfpyyyxuotil03/Photo%20Sep%2007%2C%209%2044%2001%20PM.png

When she brought up her suicidal tendencies and being depressed from everyone pressuring her on the money she owes(probably hundreds of dollars at this point) I really got offended and pissed off that she was using that as an excuse. As someone who was bullied to the point of suicide attempts, i do not take that 'scapegoating' lightly.
I will have to go through my notes to find all the information. I unfortunately do not have any paypal statements to back up my claim since it was my fault for not realizing the wrong person paid me. That is my fault on that end.

By the way she reacts and treats everyone, she does not give me the impression of paying everyone back. I am out 30$ at the very least as well as traditional originals. I gave her two options, give me 30$ or send me back the art(which would be 45 cents to mail back). I've lost count on the months it has taken for her to respond to my skype messages regarding my art.
I am fed up with waiting and will post my own beware when I can about her.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

Egads!

Anyone trying to lose the emotional blackmail automatically loses in my opinion.

I hope to see your beware on this person.

Ladygreer

[wolf bones (from livejournal.com)]

Although I lost all my written proof a while ago, since I've all but deleted it out of anger. (and, also, I like to keep my mail tidy..I don't usually have disputes with people so meh...)
I did these two drawings for her:
$35: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10389547/ (NSFW)
$15: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/10040128/

Total of $45, I started getting a chargeback within a month, notified her about it and she enver replied, YOU infact replied to me and told me what was happening. When I infact questioned her as to A) why she stole ehr grandparents credit card in the first place and B) When am I getting my money?
I assumed she said the same answer to everyone else:
A pitty party about how she has to get a job to refund everyone, the (artists) were being rude to her for saying how immature she has been, and her grandparents will no longer talk to her because of this.

About a month after this (around april/may I believe?) I got an UNKNOWN second chargeback, same exact price. I had already payed for the first charge back, so this one was just "out of the blue and random"
Infuriated, I contacted her about it and said "I want my money back. Now, and now you owe me a total of $90 for that mysterious SECOND. CHARGEBACK."
Again, she yelled at me and told me to stop bugging her, called me a bitch, and at that moment cleared her FA and left for about a month or two.
But, up until recently she's been back and active, not talking to anyone (as far as my knowledge, she has not contacted me about the money situation) and so, I left that comment on her page.

I'm more infuriated that I got an unknown second chargeback, I don't know if it was paypals fault, or the credit card companies fault. Either or, I filed a dispute and it did no good. :/

Re: Ladygreer

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

Two chargebacks on the same transaction?! Wha, but how is that even possible?

[spytdragonfyre.livejournal.com]

She tried buying an adopt from me months ago, and claimed her PayPal was acting up. I never heard back from her and forgot. Until I saw this post I didn't even remember who she was or that she was even interested in still buying the design. I actually winded up selling it to someone else a few days ago, so she doesn't owe me anything :T

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Hi! I am afraid I have to screen this comment from view because the paypal screenshots you posted contain real names. If you wish to comment with this information again, we need you to censor real names out of all four paypal screenshots. Also, as a side note, the host you used for these screenshots is extremely slow. It might be a good idea to consider hosting them elsewhere.

[corghi.livejournal.com]

Man, I am really sorry that you got charge-backed. Sadly, even though you're out $30, I feel the grandparents should get their money back. It's not their fault that their granddaughter stole from them. All the same, I'm terribly sorry.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

If that story is even real, I do agree.