Buyer Beware: FA PrincePrince

[kit]

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/princeprince/

WHAT: Coloured sketch, paid for in advance of completion.

WHEN: Payment made Aug 7th

PROOF: Below..

Payment: http://gyazo.com/14c542e77912f01ec64f13ccb44216a7

Attempted communication: http://gyazo.com/9146a953ec2fdecdd3fdf35a194d7201 - http://gyazo.com/25b0b551296dc00526516dabe258e906

Unfinished WIP (NSFW): http://i.imgur.com/MttANmM.png

Skype communication: http://gyazo.com/c17f2a91eff332a40fc852de6cbf4c0e - http://gyazo.com/611c6c7f954aa1c05412ecc990256f3e - http://gyazo.com/e267e42a0dae5dbab1d06db1c55fb9f8 - http://gyazo.com/cb2853b9e436303d9a6d131e80150c77

There's a post on their wall. Aside from that, multiple messages over both FurAffinity and Skype.

EXPLAIN: We purchased a coloured sketch from this Artist on Aug 7th, paid the same day. Although an unfinished sketch -was- provided, suddenly after that and all contact ceased.

Cessation of communication and attempted continued Skype communication: http://gyazo.com/481ad376a2dc73c1ef27a810ead18aba - http://gyazo.com/41188f6d0d8a2e1157a87870371e23a9 - http://gyazo.com/8649b1543c54cb2b83125a53d419e23b

No response has been given at all since 8/9/2013 and it's been a month since our payment.

We sent the user the following warning;

http://gyazo.com/393266d2e9ab53713e0706eb80f65406

and of course here we are now. They've taken our money and run without any explanation or attempt to communicate. Basically, they've robbed us.

A post was also made here asking for suggestions;

http://forums.furaffinity.net/threads/206000-How-long-do-you-wait

So there you go. Do the judging yourself.

Current Mood:irritated

Comments

[lunaus (from livejournal.com)]

Some of the constant Skype messages seem a bit pushy (a few were even done in the early AM, even though you knew they were in the same timezone), and 3weeks isn't that long await depending on what you ask for, who you're commissioning/trading, and how they go about commissions/trades.

Also the last note was a bit much, I know I've done it before but it's been explained after that A_B shouldn't be used as a threat towards an artist, then you just ramble on - keep it short and sweet to the point about what you're going to do from this point on (no mention of A_B needed, etc). Ask for the art or a refund, and leave it at that.

EDIT: Wrong twitter account... but whatevs

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Edit: OOPS, I did not mean to reply to your comment, I didn't notice I clicked that, sorry!

I'm a bit on the fence about this.

My only public messenger is steam, which is always on so I often can't reply or don't see messages, it's possible they haven't been on the computer that has skype on? If you were sending FA notes, those read and not responded to I'd be more worried, but it's easy to not get skype messages, and it often glitches for me and I don't receive messages from some people.

Not completely sure how I feel about this and I'll wait to see what others say.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I really dislike the language you used in the last message to her. "Steal" "robbed from us" etc. That's really dramatic, considering that she already gave you a WIP, and so I would imagine has intentions on finishing it.

The real reason I dislike the language is threefold. One, you can still get your money back by filing a claim with Paypal. Two, she doesn't appear to have been online or at least not active on FA in about two weeks. Three, you went from "I want to be buddybuddy!" to "You stole from us I hate you" with the flip of a switch.

I don't even see a formal request for a refund, just "if we don't hear back, we'll have to take action".

On the other hand, the artist SHOULD have replied to you at some point, IF they have received your messages. Hopefully they get back to you soon or you recover your money with Paypal and give the poor artist's skype a rest.

I don't recommend trying to become friends with an artist when you're in the middle of a business transaction. Save that for after your piece is done (and never ask for discounts).

[poptartkitty.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile I commissioned her for four icons and she got them done in two days max...

Strange she won't answer you or anything. Has she read your notes? If you don't know, you can check your outbox and see.

also christ almighty some of the people in that forum thread. @_@

[kontonakuma.livejournal.com]

I don't know, while it shouldn't take almost a month to finish a coloured sketch unless there are others before you in line, and the lack of communication is a bit of a red flag. You do seem a little pushy in the skype caps. The artist can't always message back in skype, especially if they need to work, as well as that skype glitch where the messages don't send correctly.

I'm sort of on the fence about this one as well. Lack of communication is a big issue, but this kind of persisting would make me feel rushed and uncomfortable.

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

This all seems super rushed and impatient to me. While the no communication is becoming an issue I would of given it till the time was about up on disputing a transaction with paypal if I hadn't heard back.

Three weeks just isn't very long at all unless a deadline was given and they missed it. And I'm agreeing with the others on that last note you sent. If anything you might of scared them away. Their latest journal suggests they don't like being pushed and prodded.

While it doesn't excuse the lack of communication from the artist's side I can see possibly where things could of gotten a bit over the top from the get go.

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

Where to begin oh my gosh.

Op, you were pushy, rude, impatient, and unnecessarily dramatic.
And that 'Also interested in potentially being your friend' thing? That is really creepy and also typically unwanted. You can't just force a friendship. But anyways, back to the problems at hand.

When the artist appeared to be absent you sent her a freaking message every hour for the next *several days* That's pushy and annoying.

And your warning note to the artist. It was so incredibly dramatic it's almost comical. Almost.
I'm sure you're get many a poster telling you that Paypal can refund your purchase as long as you seek the refund before the 45 day limit :T And the part where you said "Clearly we're not getting a refund" was completely unnecessary and has no evidence backing it up! When did she ever say that she was refusing a refund for you?
All you need to do is politely request a refund from an artist.
Also, it's not uncommon for artwork to take a few days or weeks, especially if the artist has other persons in their queue.
I know this is your first time commissioning someone but dude. Chill out. I'm sorry you're having to learn this the hard way, but art is not like a download. You will not get instant gratification when you pay someone for custom artwork.

It seems like something happened to the artist, as their latest activity was from a month ago. Instead of pestering just be patient. When she does contact you again, i hope you two can work this out like adults.

Honestly i consider this post to be a beware on the OP, if anything.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

"And your warning note to the artist. It was so incredibly dramatic it's almost comical. Almost."

Keep the snark to a minimum, please. You can give your opinion without being insulting to the OP. This is a polite un-official warning.

[snowyedges.livejournal.com]

I really think you jumped the gun on this, OP -- you were extremely pushy, especially with all of those Skype messages in a row. Very unnecessary, imo.
I see you also posted a journal on FA on the 27'th of August, which was all of 20 days after you paid -- not to mention the one you linked on the forum only two days after that.

From what I can see on their FA, they haven't uploaded anything since the 9'th of August. They haven't favorited anything since the 11'th (of August). Maybe their Internet is out? Admittedly they should try to contact their customers and let them know if that's the case, but sometimes things come up and that's not feasible.

I understand that money is valuable and you're afraid of throwing it down the drain (I have the same worries when I commission others, too) but you have to trust artists when you buy something from them ... especially if they've never given you a reason not to. Waiting a matter of a few DAYS (the first link under 'cessation', I'm assuming you sent messages on the 9'th, right before the 10'th) isn't trusting them ... it's being overly paranoid and way, way too impatient and overbearing.

Give them a little more time to get back to you before you call them a scammer or try to say they've "screwed you over".

Note: edited because how do words?

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Actually the artist uploaded art on their alt account August 30th, as well as the 27th and 26th. They uploaded fursuit stuff on another alt September 3rd, and August 30th.
So they have been online and could have messaged this commissioner.

Not sure why people think they haven't been online since early August.

[lakotawolf.livejournal.com]

Exactly how fast DID you expect your artwork to be completed? Overnight? I'm serious here - I'd like you to answer me honestly. When did you expect your artwork? Did the artist actually promise you a date/time frame that your art would be completed in? If she did not give you a deadline/ETA, then you had absolutely NO right to impose one yourself, UNLESS you gave one to her WHEN you purchased the commission AND she agreed to it at that time. (e.g., "Hey Prince, please have this artwork completed in one week." "Okay, JadeTora, I agree to have it done in one week!") If NONE of this type of communication occurred, what right do you have to suddenly and artificially slam a deadline on the commission three weeks after you purchased it, with absolutely no notice given before you arbitrarily decide to slam a deadline onto it NOW?

And yes, I WILL do the judging myself, since you instructed me to do so.

You have been nothing but impatient, rude, and basically a terrible customer to this artist.

Their FA page says that they are 18... if we are to trust that this is the truth, then something could have happened IRL - school could have started and they got busy - maybe they're starting their first semester of college. Maybe a family member got ill. Maybe THEY got ill. While normally I would advocate that they should come online and at least attempt to contact their customers as a show of professionalism, I know that sometimes, RL crap happens, and your online stuff takes a back seat fairly hardcore and you just can't give a crap about coming online and posting to FA. I don't want to go on a tangent about my own life here, but two weeks ago my dad had a stroke - and I assure you, I wasn't about to come onto FA and post a journal updating my friends about my life/my schedule during that week, for example.

I know you may feel like you've gotten robbed, and maybe you have, but that doesn't give you the "right" to attack the artist or say the kinds of things you said via Skype and FA notes. You had no reason not to take the moral high ground here. "Warnings"? Those were threats, plain and simple.

You want to do a PayPal chargeback? Just go ahead and do so; there's no need to say the kinds of things you said to this artist just to make yourself feel better about an imagined "robbery" that you felt took place.

And I have to say - you probably have not purchased many commissions if you feel that three weeks is a "long" wait time and that you've been "robbed" if you've waited that long with no contact from the artist.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Please, I understand you have a passionate opinion about this - but keep in mind: The artist hasn't finished their end and has not given them contact. It's -theft- at this point, until the artist makes a response.

You may want to tone it down a bit, the post is incredibly aggressive (if not slightly unfair). The OP's post is valid, despite how their interaction went. Keep in mind, this may be the customers first time, and act accordingly, they may benefit more from being educated about proper commission process instead of being berated endlessly.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

You sent notes, but have the notes been opened?
(Also agreed that the Skype stuff is quite out of line from you)

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think perhaps you were a bit overbearing OP. But that does not excuse the artist to completely ignore your requests for an update. I hope you do get to work this out with them. That being said, 3 weeks feels long (to me) for a colored sketch, and after two weeks of radio silence I'd be noting them as well.

Skype isn't the best format for communication, I have found. You'd be best to stick to email, or notes.

[snowyedges.livejournal.com]

Also, as a belated note (in case anyone missed it) -- it says in the second link under "Skype communication" that this is OP's first time commissioning someone. Maybe they don't know the usual way commissions are run in terms of communication (how often you should message an artist, that there's a difference between being a friend and a commissioner, etc.) and the time it takes to actually create a piece.
It's a possibility?

I don't know what to think atm. ;o; We'll see what the artist says if/when they show up.

[crystamartin.livejournal.com]

It's worth noting, the people who state that the commissioner can regain their money via paypal dispute, that they state on the FAF post they sent it as a gift.

OP - you should never do that in future as when things like this happen, you have no recourse.

Echoing what others have said about the last note being OTT though. :/ I reserve judgement on this until the artist weighs in.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Ah, I hadn't seen they had sent it as a gift. Yea, that's a major nono (just editing this to add: I don't expect a first-time commissioner to know this, so OP, not attacking you for it. In the future, send it as "services" or request that the artist send you an invoice). They can still try calling Paypal and see if they'll give it back anyways (or contact their bank/credit card company and file a chargeback that way).

Just a suggestion...

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

The topic of their contact on Skype and their attitude in Notes has pretty much been covered multiple times... its not to say you can't mention it if you find it utterly important, but do realize the majority of comments before you have already echoed all concerns.

And do NOT be nasty. Educate the OP if you must, but community rules still apply.

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

Considering the art is mostly done (all they have to do is color the sketch) I don't feel like you should get a full refund. I see absolutely no activity from them for around a month. I'd honestly be more worried then angry about this. I can understand your anger, but a month isn't a lot of wait time at all! Perhaps give them a chance or even ask some friends or other commissioners if they know where they went?

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm not reading as much into it as everyone else, but the Skype messages seem okay to me? The artist practically invited the OP to message them by stating, that a friendship could be possible- how else does one make friends over the internet other than talking with them and getting to know them as a person? A message every few hours isn't entirely unreasonable either, if the artist felt overwhelmed then it is their duty to inform the client of this or keep IM related communications of this nature as business-only.

I don't really think this is a beware against the OP at all; this is their first commission and they even state that they're awkward with the process and how it should be done. I'm sure they also had no idea how long on average they should wait before inquiring about their progress, especially when they know that their piece is practically finished and only needs to be colored. I get a lot more impatience and sheer lack of commissioning experience out of the notes than I do any sort of malice.

OP, my best advice for you is to take all of the advice posted here and apply it to future commissions. I'm sorry that this artist has vanished from the face of the internet, but I do hope they make a return and resolve this with you so that both sides can walk away in peace.

[kit (from livejournal.com)]

This is mostly how we felt. If they wanted us to back off a bit, they could have said something. The fact is, it's been a month and there's been -no- communication. Frankly that doesn't sit well with us, it makes us nervous.

We've had no experience commissioning people in the past, this is our first time and our first time was evidently a bad one it seems. The user -has- been online as we stated numerous times and -has- been contacted through multiple mediums but merely failed to respond -at all-.

On the one occasion they did respond, they claimed they'd have our sketch coloured and finished within the next day.. then no responses..

At this point, we're following the advice of other members of the FurAffinity Community as well as staff.

Were the Artist to have simply responded to us, letting us know something was up or have given us some indication of -anything- or that they were uncomfortable or whatever, we would have been more than accommodating, however that never happened. And the Artist even suggested friendship was possible and quipped back and forth with us at first.

To other posters in the thread; you're entitled to think/feel however you want, however -we- personally feel as if we've been robbed.

Since then we've commissioned other Artists and had no such trouble.

One of them has even taken over a week to finish a coloured sketch for us that was paid for ahead of time when previously it had taken them less than a day. That's okay. You know why?

Because they actually told us -why- and they were courteous and polite about it.

You get what you give.

You don't wanna respond to a Commissioner and avoid them for whatever reason, refusing to speak to or acknowledge them? Then expect some throw-back.

Of course we still welcome the Artist contacting us -if- they have a good reason for having ignored us and can explain the situation to us, but as it stands, we feel a beware is in order.

[lakotawolf.livejournal.com]

She's been active on her "adoptable" account on FA within the last two weeks:

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/goldfeesh

I don't know if she shares that account or if it's all her artwork, but it's worth looking into.

(Side note for personal curiosity, so you obviously don't have to answer, but, are you one person, or two on the same account?)

[kit (from livejournal.com)]

...So.. she's got multiple accounts.. and has been more or less definitively and intentionally avoiding us and avoiding completion of our paid for commission.. is it really that unreasonable that we feel like we've been robbed at this point?

There's one physical body operating this account, to answer your question.

Although back to the subject, at this point.. given the evidence and all.. we really don't think anyone has the right to say we're in the wrong..

We paid right away, we were fairly patient, we tried to communicate and asked the Community and Staff for help and advice on what to do before coming here..

*sigh.* Guess we just got played..

[kit (from livejournal.com)]

Just a small update - It's October 11th now, the Artist in question has still neither responded nor provided the art we paid for. So, yeah. Pretty much dishonesty and robbery going on here.

[kit (from livejournal.com)]

UPDATE:

As of Friday, October 18th at least this is the current status of princeprince's FA page; http://gyazo.com/5092e5b4723474efc0cb0e702f0d5131 so yeah.. took our money and ran.. this is pretty cut and dry robbery/dishonesty, the user's undoubtedly moved to a new account possibly to do the same thing again.

New account

[coffee claudia pucci (from livejournal.com)]

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/yoai/

MOD NOTICE

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Please remove this information from your post. I know you want to warn others off of this person, but if this info was not public knowledge before, it cannot be used.

And as I unfortunately do not have her FA page to compare information to, I must assume this information to be private. This is in order to comply with LJ TOS so we are not viewed as an attack community.

Again, I am sorry but you need to remove this info. The comment I am replying to shall be screened.

This is not the first time

[hotcoffee103.livejournal.com]

I am a real life ex friend of hers.
She does this all of the time.
She has already moved accounts.
She will never finish your artwork.
She has had con tables where she takes commissions, promises to ship the art and never does.
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/inukamoku/ < New account

I really hate to call her out like this but I cant stand her taking money from people and never giving them art.