AVOID: IvoryTigress on FurAffinity

[kelsey brockerville]

Who: FurAffinity - IvoryTigress
         Skype - Durr
         MSN - leafwing20@gmail.com

Where: Stream, Skype, Paypal, and FurAffinity

What: I commissioned her a coloured lineart for $35

When: Payment sent June 2nd 2013 - Refund received October 18th 2013

Proof: Screenshots of Conversations: http://imgur.com/a/CF0gk

Explain: Commissioned this artist, about a month later she quit all of her planned commissions and started refunding. I would constantly be understanding and kind to her. She ignored me more and more as time went on. Eventually I got tired of it and reported her to paypal (like I told her I would).

My Advice to You: Commission anyone but her, its not worth the headache.

Thank you everyone for your time! <3

Comments

[kasune.livejournal.com]

Where is your proof that you told her you would be reporting her to paypal? I'm not seeing it, unless the calling paypal part was it.

That being said, your last response was a bit harsh. It stinks that you were waiting for months, and she WAS unprofessional for not keeping her commissioners updated frequently, but don't be unprofessional as well- business is business and both parties work to make the transaction go smoothly.

I feel like some of the story is missing here, I don't know why.

[exo-formicidae.livejournal.com]

I feel something is missing too. But I'm not sure what it is. Maybe because the setup of the emails and dates and such are different than what's usually submitted? (I was confused a bit figuring out dates from them ^^; )

[theblackdragon.livejournal.com]

if i'm reading things correctly, it was the 13th-ish of August according to the chat screenshots (idk, i could be reading the date system wrong -- i'm not familiar with that particular program) when the calling of Paypal was mentioned, and then after that is what looks like the refund requests (one dated the 6th of September explicitly states the request, the one before is a bit vague). The dispute itself looks like it was filed around the 18th of October, if the artist's response was immediate.

As an outsider reading all of that, it's clear to me that the artist had over a solid month where they were in the knowledge that a commissioner (who was willing to call Paypal if necessary) wanted their money back. Whether Paypal would have been able to help would be up in the air at that point (it looks like their 45 days from date of payment would've been long since up), but the mention of intent was there back in August (i think?).

[exo-formicidae.livejournal.com]

Two things if you could clear this up for me;

1; she asks to be paid USD (2nd image), but you ask to be refunded in CAN (2nd e-mail) for the same 35. Why is this?
2; how did you get to know of the other unsatisfied customers? You mentioned them in the 2nd to last image. I haven't been trough all her journal, and she have a clear shout box, so was just wondering there.

other than that;
All artist can have a rough patch, i.e moving/tablet breaking/ lack of time, which I kinda assumes as she mentions the packing out and getting a new tablet. But I feel it's really shady when they don't want you to comment on her journals asking for updates - it shouldn't have to get that far in the first place, so a definitive lack of communication and time management.

She did however keep the profession language in the IM's, I'm not excusing her in any way, and it seems to be already going flaky pretty soon, when she doesn't tell you about the stream before you ask, and not prioritizing your commission. (don't know if she had queue or not that she worked from at this point)
But you are using a very personal tone, and imho that's kinda off-putting, to me personally at least. I'm in no way saying she felt this way, but unless we are actually friends I prefer keeping smiley faces and emotions out of it as it can be uncomfortable for some, and bring more of a friendship rather than a business feel to it.

(This is again why I don't use IM and keep it to either e-mail or quick ones to notes, so could be just me.)

Definitively a beware on her time management skills, and although she doesn't use rude language, maybe a rude tone after you no longer went along with her passiveness on the commission, It is definitively bad (read; theft) to keep on to someones money without delivering a product.

(also sorry for bad sentence constructions, I'm horrid at them)

[poptartkitty.livejournal.com]

The commissioner lives in Canada. The artist said "can you resend it in USD" so she had to have paypal convert CAN to USD.

[exo-formicidae.livejournal.com]

but doesn't that mean she re-sent it as USD?
so she sent it as USD, but requested it back as CAN (which is a more valuable currency) further down. I only deal in USD from my online purchases, but if I send it from my bank it will be in NOK, so doing a fair amount of converting myself :)

(hope I got what you meant)

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

Yes, I both received and re-sent as USD.

[exo-formicidae.livejournal.com]

Thanks for clearing stuff up :)

[poptartkitty.livejournal.com]

I thought she sent it as CAN first and had to have it sent back to be converted and then resent? is that even a thing because that's what it sounded like to me lmao

Super long, sorry!

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

I'm putting this very simply before I post anything else:
Please remove my Skype name, as my Skype is not used for commissions. Your commission was made an exception, as at the time of commission, my FA notes were not working, and I hadn't yet adjusted to using my main email. (I also ask you remove that email as well.)

On to my reply:
As everyone has explained, my time management is horrible, and I do accept that. I've slowly been refunding everyone, and I'm not hiding that fact. I've been emailing my commissioners as I get emails ASAP. (It takes me a couple of days-to a week to respond, but I do make sure to get back to clients.)
As also explained to you, my Skype messages were not the appropriate place to contact me, and many messages went un-received. (MANY of the messages you sent in those chat logs also were sent in the middle of the night, when my Skype wasn't active (either via phone or computer) or on in the first place.
As for the rest, no, you not once messaged me before claiming to contact Paypal, or anything about A_B. I had to message you myself to ask about the dispute.

To admins: If possible, can this be marked resolved? The OP has posted as resolved, and if needed, I will post my own proof that payment was sent.


And to everyone else:
Advice? My time management (and general info management) is horrible, and it shows. I would really love advice on how I can keep myself from doing the same mistakes again and again. What is a good way to organize info? To manage my time with each commission? etc etc?
I'm not ready to take commissions until I get this solved, and my own personal life calms down. But I'd love to know what you guys think could help.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[norala.livejournal.com]

If you have the time to set it up and get used to it I used asana (https://asana.com/) when I was actively taking commissions. I had it set up to hold all info (so if commissioner took down a ref, websites were down etc I still had access) or just a google docs spreadsheet to keep an active queue. Best of luck!
I would suggest maybe working with smaller numbers of commissions and not taking on extra when life is busy.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

That looks super cool, I'm checking it out!
When you were taking commissions, did you give yourself deadlines to have the commissions done by? Or didn't take the money until after the art was finished? etc?

Re: Super long, sorry!

[norala.livejournal.com]

I accepted payment up front and usually limited myself to batches (no more than 5 or 10 at a time depending on my week) and would try not to take more until they were all completed. When not in school I attempted to keep a 2 week turn around, when in school I made it very clear that it would be more likely 4-6 week turn around (unless it was in stream)
Organization, time management and proper pricing (if you are making $2 an hour its really hard to ever stay "ahead") seemed to be the big ones for me.
As hard as it was I made my family treat it (and my schedule) as it was a job, so "No mom I am actually working down here I can't go run your errands I am working from 10-7 today." (that may be more of a personal problem thou! hahah)

Re: Super long, sorry!

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

There are various ways to organize, but they'll only work if you stick to them.

The most common queue organization trick used, is using Google Docs, which when connected to your own email account makes for fast and easy editing.

A secondary approach is using Trello (https://trello.com/). As its a kind of pin-board so you can organize your projects as you see fit.

You may also want to limit yourself to X-amount of commissions a month, of a certain type even. Say you have a very busy February coming up and you know you can't dedicate yourself to anything past a sketch or lineart - that's all you open for. Someone wanting a colored work will just have to wait for an opening later in the year.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

As far as Google Docs goes, is there a good way to set it up? I've never had an easy time working with it, so I don't know if there is some template or anything that works good for organizing information.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I second Trello, its very intuitive and easy to learn

Re: Super long, sorry!

[norala.livejournal.com]

Thanks! That site looks awesome :D

Re: Super long, sorry!

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Google Docs helps me loads! Make sure there's lots of info on it for both you and commissioners looking at it. Usernames, type of commission, date paid, where you are at in the progress, and when you last updated the sheet. You can use mine as an example: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AmuOlKZc32WHdHZoS3F0cHdRNy1CVWVSN1dGelFVTlE&output=html

Re: Super long, sorry!

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! I'll try setting this up (or an example sheet) and see what you guys think.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Mod here to answer your request to "resolved" status: If you could supply a screenshot of proof of the refund, I'll gladly close it off with a resolved tag.

Good job with handling this professionally! It takes a lot of guts to admit fault and try to better yourself.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

http://puu.sh/4XZBx.png
Let me know if you need to see the full posts.
That's the three refunds, along with the dispute.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

This is fine, I'll add in the resolved tag for you, thanks!

Re: Super long, sorry!

[funkicarus.livejournal.com]

i personally keep all my commissions written down in a book with the date it was commissioned, if it was paid up front or not, where the commissioner lives and what they wanted! i also note how much i charged vs. how much i got after paypal took its cut.

it's really been helpful. if you find a digital file of your workload is too easy to ignore, i reccomend a big ol' book. like one that'd hurt if you dropped it on your toe. it's hard to ignore that haha.

i also reccomend setting your work time at specific hours of the day. if you only have time to work from say, 4 to 6pm? set it aside as work. just be like NOPE NOTHING ELSE, THESE ARE MY WORK HOURS. but remember to schedule breaks for yourself (even a fifteen minute breather every few hours can help) so you don't get burnt out.

Re: Super long, sorry!

[xubunturambles.livejournal.com]

This!

Re: Super long, sorry!

[cyiakanami.livejournal.com]

As far as organization goes, I have been using Evernote(free) which also has apps on the droid market(free)and you can download the program also for free.
It stores notes, has tons of ways to organize them by date ect. You can even copy/paste images into the notes and they show up just as images if you'd like and so on.
I've been using it for over a year now and not once have I had issues organizing my work. I highly recommend it.
I also use google docs as well for all my commission info to organize and show to the public. Color coded and dated.

Also, set your self a schedule and stay to it. Commissions are work and should be treated like a job. Make time to work on them.
They also have a lot of schedule planners and timers for people who like alerts and reminders and so on that you can use on both web and apps.
Best of luck!

[ivorytigress.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the double post, I couldn't edit my main post.

All I can do at this point is apologize to my commissioners, including you. I'm doing my best, and it is my main financial priority to refund and keep my commissioners informed, and I'm doing what I think is my best currently to "get back on my feet" with my art.
In this case, I want to say neither side was appropriate in how this was handled, and all I can do is tell you I'm sorry.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

This is super late, but hopefully this helps too!

You should have the option to offer a refund in the Paypal dispute center that will close the dispute automatically vs. asking the client to close it before you'll send one.

The latter option is a way some less scrupulous folks get away with the cash as once a dispute is closed, it can never be reopened. Not that I'm saying you'd do it, of course!

I've had to file a dispute once just recently in order to combat a company that was being completely unresponsive. They closed it themselves by telling Paypal they would just refund me.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Why is listing the Skype name necessary?