Beware Artist: Tryst_Entangled

[sivadicus.livejournal.com]

Who: Tryst_Entangled

Where: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/trystentangled/ , https://inkbunny.net/Tryst , https://www.weasyl.com/profile/tryst

What: $310 worth of art, broken down into 4 separate commissions.

When: Month of December, 2011.

Explain: Two years ago, I paid Tryst a lump some of money ($310 total) in exchange for artwork. We settled on an agreement of four commissions that could be completed over time, since there were a few people ahead of me and I was in no rush for the artwork. As time passed, Tryst had to be reminded time and time again on what we agreed on even though files and notes were sent his way as reminders. Eventually one picture was completed after some mutual friends of mine talked him into actually drawing what he owed me--and in that case the picture was a gift for those mutual friends.

Thus far, he still owes me three commissions and I have not been able to get so much as a sketch from him in over 9 months. Attempts to get a refund have failed and at this point I doubt I'll see artwork since he's been avoiding contact with his commissioners as of late. This is why I'm typing up the beware warning.

Proof:
http://i.imgur.com/WjSFE66.jpg
The payment via Paypal.

http://i.imgur.com/sRKj1qm.jpg
Validation of payment via e-mail.

http://i.imgur.com/7tOcUoo.jpg
"Reminder" of art that's owed to me since artist forgot about my commissions again. The original discussion of art ideas was over Instant Messenger, but the chat-logs don't go far back enough for a screen shot.

Comments

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

While not pertinent to the business transaction, between 2011 and now Tryst has come out as trans, so please use she/her pronouns when talking about her from here on out!

Thanks guys

[lichdog.livejournal.com]

lol beat me to it. I was about to go "IIRC Trist identifies as female?"

[evan-balot.livejournal.com]

Have you started a trouble ticket on them over FA yet? That's quite a bit of money and thankfully, the FA admins do threaten a ban over scamming artists.

Sometimes it takes the banhammer looming over their heads to light a fire under their butts to do the work they owe.

[brakker.livejournal.com]

I doubt that would work for this one. They put up multiple journals and submissions asking for money for things, and when people gave constructive advice towards getting their life on track, they just cried out 'Transphobia!' and got angry at everyone not giving them money or sympathy.

They'd probably just write FA off as a lost cause if threatened with a ban.

[tryst (from livejournal.com)]

No one gave any additional constructive advice, most of it was either irrelevant, unhelpful, or just a repeat of everything I already said I was doing. I specifically said no one was obligated to give me money, multiple times. I called out transphobia, because generally there was a lot of that going on (including people making comments to the affect that I should kill myself and a couple comments talking about "genital mutilation"), not because I didn't get money or sympathy. There's is also a very obvious pattern of these attacks upon people asking for help with trans issues in the furry-fandom. I never have been assailed that relentlessly when asking for money for anything else, even if it was just something for fun.

You were one of the problem individuals during that event as well.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

You said this also over here ( http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/730597.html?thread=27918565#t27918565 )

I want to clarify something since you've repeated this 'holding a banhammer over their heads' phrase a couple times now.

FA Admins do not throw around bans like candy, and it takes a very very long repeated history of scamming customers on their site in order to draw their attention. In some case, it's taken years. Just a single entry in AB isn't nearly enough. Unless you yourself are an admin, It'd be best if you not make mention of what will, or will not earn an FA member a ban. They are free to make trouble tickets, but it's not necessary to suggest it every time.

No one is claiming any of the artists in these posts are "scammers", and oftentimes it's just from lack of communication. To call them scamming artists is not always the case, and not fair.

So in short, please refrain from making comments like these. FA tickets aren't incredibly effective unless an artist has taken money over a long period of time from many multiple people.

[kontinue.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. I really hate seeing posts like this that immediately demonize an artist (or commissioner) and suggest they be banned from a site that is used primarily for income by many people, because of one problematic transaction. Not everyone is perfect, and not every transaction is perfect.

In fact, banning an artist often does more harm than good, and frankly, it's not up to the admins of an art site to step in on every single professional transaction begun or made via their site.

SO glad to see this pointed out.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I just hate to see folks automatically assume every artist featured on AB is a scammer. There are so many variances of situations! Some turn out great, some poorly, and others lay stagnant. I too just don't care for blanket statements to demonize artists, when sometimes it just takes some good ol' fashion discussion and contact.

[evan-balot.livejournal.com]

"you've repeated this 'holding a banhammer over their heads' phrase a couple times now."

This is only the second time I've used that phrase.

"FA Admins do not throw around bans like candy"

At no point do I ever suggest that they do.

"it's not necessary to suggest it every time."

Why not?

"No one is claiming any of the artists in these posts are "scammers", and oftentimes it's just from lack of communication. To call them scamming artists is not always the case, and not fair."

Artist takes money from commissioner. Artist doesn't deliver owed work and ignores the commissioner. At what point do we draw the line between scamming and not scamming? Just when they've done it to enough people?

"FA tickets aren't incredibly effective unless an artist has taken money over a long period of time from many multiple people."

A commissioner can still write up a ticket to show that an artist has taken a commissioner's money.

"So in short, please refrain from making comments like these."

If you would like to take your time to tell us what sort of comments you would prefer us to make, feel free. Because all I'm doing is trying to help.

*Edit. Turns out italics tags don't work.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I'll make this concise and in bullet points to answer you, after this, we will take it to pms.

- Twice is enough.
- You are stating that holding a banhammer over an artists head will cause them to get in gear and act. This is not always the case, again, please don't make statements like that. We are not FA, we have no affiliation with them.
- We are not going to discuss what is or is not a scam.
- FA has many of it's own issues, and often trouble tickets go unanswered for months, even years. They often do not take care of "off site" issues, and they cannot police transactions on their website.
- Again, an artist/customer must have an EXTENSIVE history before FA will even glance at them. It took artists like Falvie and Shizuki years to even be considered or contacted about their outstanding commissions.

Being helpful is fine, speaking for FA is not. Again, please do not make comments along these lines unless you are an FA Admin.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying this, evan_balot's comment really rubbed me the wrong way as well

[kistaro]

Is your work listed on Tryst's queue anywhere?
https://trello.com/b/cR6xdjdC/tryst-s-queue

[kontinue.livejournal.com]

I see it there- Multiple Pending - Renix, under Old Queue.

[sivadicus.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's under Old Commission Queue, as Kontinue pointed out. He has all the info, but it continues to get bumped down as other commissions come in. At the very start of all this, he had four people ahead of me.

[kistaro]

I see it, yep. At least it's a formal acknowledgement that it exists, but acknowledging that it's stuck in her backlog is not the same as a satisfactory clearance rate. :/

[tryst (from livejournal.com)]

Hello, OP. I am confused about some of your statements here. Most especially the idea that I've been avoiding contact with commissioners. I always reply to commissioners that send me messages and when I have pertinent updates I post them on my FA. Mostly things move at glacial speeds for me due to my clinical depression (which I spent several months without medication for).

Also, I do not recall any attempts to claim a refund, and you, in the past, have told me to only give you money back if I can afford to. I would offer you one now but it would only be a very minimal amount (40USD) as that's all I have outside of money for food and medication.

The last contact I was aware of was you telling me to take the time I need. I also have had your commission near the top of my list for some time, though seeing as it's been two years I could at least get some sketches for you ASAP. I have a horrible sense of time, which is part of why I don't take new work except from close friends that know it may be a very long time.

Also, please use female pronouns when speaking about me and to me.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

"Also, I do not recall any attempts to claim a refund, and you, in the past, have told me to only give you money back if I can afford to."
If you have proof of this or the stuff lacking in the OP's post, people would appreciate it since without any caps and conflicting statements it's impossible to really properly judge the situation either way.

Though, the "take the time you need" is bit of a two sided sword... Two years is a really long time to wait for a commission with no progression, especially if the person doesn't know you take a really long time and can only see more people's commissions piled over them, as the Trello would suggest, depression/issues or not.

[tryst (from livejournal.com)]

It's basically my word against theirs because I don't have IM logs... and IM is where a lot of the communication took place, which there's not much I can do about.

That said, I agree, two years really is a long time. I meant it when I said I didn't know it'd been that long and that if it's troubling them that much I can "step on it" so to speak.

He only has two people ahead of him in the old queue, the new queue does not precede the old one; I typically do them in tandem. Though the list is only loosely chronological anyway.

I haven't been contacted by the OP in many months, so this whole thing comes as a bit of a surprise to me. I'm offering what I can, but I wish they'd told me it was this much of a problem to them sooner and more directly as other people that I've talked to about this stuff recently have been okay with me taking so long.

It seems a bit off, to me, for you to say: "depression/issues or not". Problems are problems and there's only so much we can do about them, which is why I don't take new work at this point and I'm focusing on the work that is already there.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

"the new queue does not precede the old one; I typically do them in tandem."
Is the commissioner aware of this? Because again if the timeline is very long between work, it can be really hard to recognize that you work both on same time, and just take note that you're working on the new stuff rather than finishing the old.

As for the commissioner not contacting you in a long time but them saying you're avoiding contact makes me wonder if there's been a technological mishap? Like an IM or note got lost somewhere, so if the OP has that, again that'd be good or after two years not getting any progress they just got fed up and figured it's no use to contact you.

And yes, problems are problems but from what I see in this you forgetting how long it has been even though the commissioner reminded you last year and the attitude of "well if it's bothering them THAT much I can step on it" seems kinda flippant to me.
Just doing the initiative of maybe every three/six months letting people know that "sorry, no progress yet but I haven't forgotten you!" would have probably helped here both on them and for you realizing how long it has taken (because that's the problem with 90% of long time commissions that pop in here, the artist never contacting the commissioner).
And with depression, I know even that can be easier said than done (and it's good you're not taking more work), but commissions are still business transactions, no matter whether they're done with friends or strangers.

[tryst (from livejournal.com)]

Most everyone is getting in little odd side debates which are largely based on presumptions about my situation and life. Discussions not based on input from the parties involved often just muddle the situation and set people up for presumptions.

Mostly what needs to be known is: Commissioner was dissatisfied by my conduct and I did not know this or expect this due to previous discussions with them, now that I do I'm trying to rectify it to the best of my ability.

[kontinue.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, often times these side discussions are not specific to the situation of the AB entry, but are hypothetical or informational. Sometimes the situation posted about in an entry can spark all sorts of discussion that is relevant to the situation, or potential situations like it, and people share their opinions, experiences, or helpful ideas. :)

[tryst (from livejournal.com)]

That's fair, I just have been having a lot of anxiety problems lately while I adjust to these meds, so seeing all that text is a bit overwhelming and I can't actually manage to read all of it. :X

[kontinue.livejournal.com]

Don't worry! And look after your own health. :) No, posts tend to spark a lot of discussion with the members of this community, because often times many of us can relate or have been in situations like ones posted, so we get a chance to share experiences, opinions, and advice, that can be useful to not only the OP and bewaree in future, but also to everyone else reading!

[sivadicus.livejournal.com]

Hey Tryst,

The reason this AB was put up was specifically to address a lack of communication and artistic involvement from you over the past (nine) months. You were given all the information you needed to complete each picture and you were paid in full. When we talked over IM, I needed to remind you that you owed me art and that I was waiting for sketches of approval. I was reassure that they were coming and I was next on the list. But that list grew over time and other commissions were slotted in front of me for one reason or another--and I was patient.

As you pointed out, our conversations and deal-makings were primarily over IM, and you've been absent from IM for a long time (April 30th), so I haven't been able to remind you. I've been kept apprised of your situation through your journals and felt no need to drop reminder-comments or notes through FA, primarily because it might exacerbate problems further. I do not want to act as a crop or carrot to motivate you.

I am more than happy to accept completion of the artwork owed and will consider the matter closed.

[tryst (from livejournal.com)]

I moved IMs because I no longer wanted to be associated with the name "thorndraco". I sent you messages asking if you wanted the new IM but I never received a reply. In general I prefer not to deal with commissions over IM at this point though.

You don't need to act as a crop or carrot. I just simply need to know what's going on or how you're feeling where I'm at. If your mood or attitude about how long I'm taking changes I need to know so that I can rectify the situation.

I have two sketches up. I'll note you about the third one, because I want to make sure the revamped description you sent me on FA last is still okay.