[Resolved] Waiting on a Refund for Too Long

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

WHO: Dear.

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/dear./

WHAT: Refund for a YCH auction piece

WHEN: March 15, 2014 - ongoing

EDIT: This has been resolved and I have received the refund.

EXPLAIN:

I won a NSFW YCH Auction as seen here: http://i.imgur.com/gmUw76v.png (NSFW link)  I was slot #1.

Here's a screen cap of our note conversation where she requests payment and I send refs and such: http://i.imgur.com/GD3xnp6.png  (Should I note she wanted payment as a gift which is against Paypal TOS? Also, I marked out the NSFW body part words if you are wondering about the extra two purple marks)

On April 11, almost a month later, I requested an update and here is our conversation via notes: http://i.imgur.com/dRIrn6r.png

On April 19, after finding out I wasn't the only one having trouble getting their commission from her too, I decided to request a refund instead: http://i.imgur.com/ynXIhht.png

On April 26 she sent me a link to the Sai file of the YCH sketch, I guess? I don't have Sai so I've never opened it and I didn't ask because all I want is the refund. Here's that note though: http://i.imgur.com/GjO6wIN.png

On June 9 I requested another update on the refund and on June 11th I received this: http://i.imgur.com/iyvfltl.png

It has been more than enough time and at this point I do not honestly believe that I will ever get a refund. I would not recommend her to anyone.

Comments

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

This user goes by Skiddo as well.

Also, they have been purchasing commissions and adopts, so I don't see how they cannot refund you.

I had trouble getting a refund from them as well, and they owe me a trade from January. I've been told they're 'working on it.'

[drone-dragon.livejournal.com]

Have you considered making an Artist Beware post here?

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I might. She owed me a refund too, and I did eventually get it, so I'm hoping I'll get the trade I'm owed too.

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

Yeah, not cool.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Yea, never trust anyone asking you to pay as a gift, I outright refuse too pay as a gift andhave had 1 person actually refuse my commission because I wouldn't pay as a gift.
--

I don't see how they can't refund you if they're bidding on YCH auctions according to an above commenter. :/

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

Eh... yeah... :C At the time I thought it was a noob that doesn't know better thing... I don't really know though... I noticed them buying stuff which is what pushed me to make this... It's not professional to ignore your customers.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

It's for sure not professional and this beware is well warranted.

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

1. (personal curiosity) Did you send the money as Gift?
2. Give her a deadline for the refund. If not received by (date), inform PayPal that she's violating their Terms of Use... with requesting Gift settings for Product. Porn/NSFW is also against their ToS...

Yeah, I'm extra bitchy.

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't take it to paypal since 90% of what I buy is porn. I don't want them scrutinizing my purchases and risking anyone else I commission. Paypal is just such a shady company.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Okay, paypal have definitely done some major goofs when it comes to freezing assets and etc., I mean I was one of the people who received a settlement after the class-action lawsuit back in the first years of paypal's existence; but really I don't think it's fair for you to call them a shady business. You sent money as a gift knowing fully well it was a business transactions, which is cheating them out of their payment for using their service. "Noob", as you called yourself, or not, is no excuse. You are supposed to read and know the terms of service of a product/service you use; and even if you didn't bother to do that, you absolutely knew you weren't sending the artist a gift.
So you helped the artist scam paypal out of their due fee.

Secondly as you say your are regularly buying porn, which is against their TOS. I know many, many people do the same thing(heck, I've done it too), and really, it only 'harms' paypal when they are made aware of it and then are forced, to cover their own legal backside, to act.
So I'm not saying shame on you for using paypal that way or anything like that- I just think it's really unfair of you to say paypal is a "shady business" when you knowingly helped an artist scam them out of paying to use their service, and also regularly break one of their rules.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that PP's fees are a serious blessing to artists. They're tax deductible and save my butt every year.

Although I don't personally know any artists that claim their commission income.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I do, although PP fees are a small fraction of my deductions vs. other items like internet and supplies. c: But yes, they are absolutely tax deductible.

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

You really made my day but I don't see how this contributes to this beware? I am warning people against commissioning dear. and seeking ideas to help me get a refund.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

At this point the only way you could possibly get a refund is to report to Paypal that she has been asking clients to send as a gift to skirt the fees. The only other way would be to contact your bank or cc company if your Paypal pulled the funds via those means.

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

I think I am past the limit on my bank for how many days to report but that is a good idea. Thanks.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Yikes, what a condescending reply. Please don't call me dear, you don't even know me!

It's a comment on your statement about Paypal, that's why it contributes. Besides, if it had been too off topic the admins would have said so. When you post a beware the members here are going to look at both sides and the behaviour of both parties involved. Also, people ask questions and make statements about the various aspects of business involved in the deal, in this case Paypal and by extension Paypal fees.

Going to Paypal for a refund was one of your options for resolution, which is another reason why it became as subject of discussion. Money being sent as a gift is a prevalent issue in the fandom when it comes to transactions, and it usually ends up being a big issue if the deal goes bad because it does cut off almost any chance of getting a refund through PP.

I'm sorry you felt the need to reply to me in a kinda snarky way instead of reading the comments and sifting out any info or advice that might be helpful to you in future transactions.

If you want just advice on getting a refund only here it is: you gave the artist a gift, why would you be entilted to anything back?
As far as Paypal is concerned you aren't because you helped someone break their rules.

You can try with them, like CK mentioned about reporting the artist for their bad practice, that might give you a shot.
You can try and get in contact with some other clients of theirs, maybe contact some of the commissioners privately through FA(so you don't get accused of that nebulous FA rule about 'call outs') and see if you can get together screenshots from several folks of the artist asking for the money to be sent as a gift. If you present it to them explaining something along the lines of 'I know I shouldn't have sent it that way, but it was the only way I could do business with this seller. They insisted!' that could work. Especially if most of transactions are not as gifts, so it's clearly just a one-time goof up, not a habit of yours. This way they will go after the biggest fish to fry so to speak- the one that's actually costing them money and that's the seller in this case.

I'm not sure if that would get your money back, or just this seller's account shut down though. But if Paypal has already decided the seller was doing bad business that gives you at least a chance!
Good luck, it's worth a shot at least.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Psst, Sable. "Dear." is the name of the artist, which is who they were referring to. c:

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Haha! Whoops, let me just reply to the Op again and apologise for that.

See this is why we need the Oxford comment not to go extinct! *L*

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I blame FA for allowing periods after names! It just mucks everything up grammatically. With all these random Names. With. Periods. it just makes me sound like William Shatner in my head when I'm reading posts.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Horatio Caine and William Shatner present a reading of FA usernames. One night only.

I would love to know why exactly the periods are allowed, maybe to allow someone to basically use a name if it was already taken but abandonded long before they joined? I dunno, generally it just causes confusion in links and overall recognising whom is whom. :/

I do feel rather like an ass, though. It makes the the tone of the comment far less snippy and so I was probably way too snippy in reply.
So, again, OP if you read this genuinely sorry on that.


Not directed at you here, CK, just in general to clarify in my original comment on the situation I honestly wasn't trying to berate OP, it's just...never send money as a gift. You can't really excuse it.
It's wrong for the artist to try and bully a buyer into doing it, but at the end of the day you know you aren't giving the artist a gift.
If someone really, REALLY must commission an artist who insists on gift payment only, you have to accept the risk that you might not get anything in return. If you get your art, great, if not: well it was a gift.

It's really unfortunately when someone who sent the funds as a gift gets scammed by the seller. Sending the money as a gift is arguably a lot less ill-intentioned than taking money for nothing; however it's like a text perfect example of the legal concept of 'clean hands'. You can't do the wrong thing in the beginning of a deal and then expect the company you wronged to help you out when someone else does you wrong.

Paypal isn't a charity, the fees are how they stay in business.

I shudder to think that somewhere out there in the fandom someone has sent the funds for a fursuit as a gift. I know it must have happened and it just makes me cringe.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Oops, sorry about the Dear thing. I misread you there.

I read it as: commissioning, Dear not commissioning Dear.

So again, very sorry about that, OP! 100% my mistake.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

i've been told benji. and aoba. are also their accounts, though it's weird because it's like they're trying to be 3 different people all at once... if you wanted to try asking them?

[taekwo-kitty.livejournal.com]

I had wondered at aoba. but I see that benji. seems to have the same dreamy as dear.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

yep, i noticed that too. i also know aoba. is them because they announced it's account once before- it was just a side one, but the art style is too similar for it to be someone different honestly. and they have used the same exact icon elsewhere, it's just all too shifty to be a coincidence

good luck!! they kind of have a rep for running away pretending to be different people to avoid refunds apparently

[savi denny (from livejournal.com)]

Wait... Dear. Is Benji. ?
Because if so im kinda scared now xDD
I ordered a chibi sheet from that person a month ago..

;[ And im very patient, with things like waiting for art..cause i understand how hectic life can get..
But if Benji. really is dear D: im afraid i wont get that commission nor a refund...

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

if you're scared, i would ask benji. for a refund first and make an a-b on them if they don't go through with it- i'm not sure how well it would go saying that you know they're dear. though, it could just make them avoid you or something..