Advice on characters you're not sure about?

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

I recently had someone approach me with a reference and during discussion they said that they wanted the character's name on the badge to be something other than what was on the reference sheet as "they'd had some art theives take her". I reverse image searched the ref and came up with two others, one being stolen (as there were a lot of "this belongs to so-and-so stop stealing" comments and the other being the original owner (not the artist, who had cleaned out their gallery).

The character though was a very generic black wolf with red eyes and emo hair so I wasn't too concerned, but what would you guys do in this situation? (Or if the character was more unique-looking?)

Comments

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

My rule of thumb in these situations is if it doesn't feel right, it's probably *not* right
If it were me I'd politely turn down the commission. I wouldn't supply a reason-- my ToS says I can turn down a commission at any time for any reason, and I don't personally think I (you) owe one. I feel it's up to you whether you want to address why though.
No matter what you do, it's a bit of a thorny one and I wish you luck!

[talakestreal.livejournal.com]

So the person that commissioned you...she's local to me. She's in a relationship with a good friend of mine. I'm ALSO working on a badge for her.

at the moment, I don't know what to think, because I've spoken to her in person, and she told me then that people have stolen her character before.

I think I'd have to have some proof before I believe that she's the one that stole the art.

Though...it doesn't bode well that the images she uses for ref are not higher resolution and are the exact size as the ones that are on DA where they're being accused of being a thief.

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

The Paypal that I was given actually belongs to a male sooo now I have no idea.

[talakestreal.livejournal.com]

She's probably using her roommate's paypal, I think. I don't think she has her own.

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

Hm. Oh and about the quality thing, Facebook destroys image quality by itself. I've had to link people to dropbox before so that they could get the HQ images so that isn't too concerning to me. It's actually why I reverse searched it in the first place because a lot of people don't realise it and it's just easier to see HQ pieces (hello jpeg compression!)

[frisket17.livejournal.com]

If this is the case, shouldn't the person you think (the girl) confirm "Yes. We're transferring funds from X-source"
This way there is confirmation?

Also am very curious which/what picture.

Also, another way to verify is if you know the person who did the reference image(s) they're providing.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

If you really know this person IRL you might want to let them know that their behavior in this post will not look good on them in any of the fur community and they might want to apologize to the OP for their behavior.

[talakestreal.livejournal.com]

Yeah....she's a bit hotheaded (okay, more than a bit).

I'll talk to her. I think right now she's just really pissed because the character belongs to her and it's been stolen quite a few times. I really don't think that she's the thief in this case.

I know if I had to deal with multiple people stealing my character, I'd probably be a bit hotheaded to.

But yeah...I agree her comments were more than a bit hostile, and I'll talk to her.

[kestral-kitsune.livejournal.com]

I'm going to say yeah, if it doesn't feel right don't do it. better to be on the safe side.

[drone-dragon.livejournal.com]

Definitely decline.
If you've already accepted a form of payment. Refund with a decline.
This whole situation sounds like it can only go south from here and someone will end up getting hurt... and that shouldn't be your own reputation.

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

I don't even know what I'd do. I have the opposite problem of people putting my artist name "xainy" on badges instead of the character's name, so I probably wouldn't question it if someone requested a different name on their badge. :( It's thorny, especially since the character [like mine] is fairly generic.

When you reverse image searched and found the owner/not the artist, was it the same person who is now commissioning you? If yes, then I would do as they requested. If no, I would probably request the commissioner note/message me from the account where the character obviously originated. If they refused, I would refuse the commission.

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

I was approached via Facebook actually, so there wasn't any real way to cross-reference (other than going by typing styles.) I'm not even sure if they're active on the obvious owner account (I didn't check any login timestamps like a total dummy).
Probably should have asked them to message me via that account like everyone above recommended.

[dinobutt.livejournal.com]

Honestly I don't think I ever would have thought anything of it in the first place, since people do change character names sometimes and I have trouble taking it seriously when people who have very generic designs seem overly worried about character theft. But knowing what you discovered when you looked further into it, that does sound really shady. If I had reason to believe that anything questionable was going on, I'd just refund them to avoid stepping on any toes.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

Since you found a likely original owner for the ref, note them and ask if they are X on Facebook (or wherever). If they don't answer in a day or two, suggest that the person who contacted you for the commission check their notes on site where the art is. If they can't, well, that's your answer. They aren't the owner.

As for not showing you a higher rez ref, I can think of 2 legit reasons.
1. It's all the artist gave them. It's far more common than you might think.
2. Even more artists are psycho about distributing the non-web sized version for any reason. So even if the person had it, they might be scared/bound by TOS not to show it.

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

Actually that's a good idea. Thanks!

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. It's a tactic I often use when I see someone posting art on a site where the owner of the originals doesn't have a presence. I might have to wait a day or two extra to call a thief out, but it also means that I don't cause drama if it really is the artist moving in.

[cdemonkam.livejournal.com]

I'd decline. While the character may be this or that, the reference they are using may not be theirs.
I'd note the owner in question as gatekat suggested.

[yuki-fox-demon.livejournal.com]

Whoa, now. I think you're definitely making this out to be way worse than it is. OP was simply seeking advice, he wasn't accusing anyone of anything. There is absolutely NO need for violent threats like that.

MOD POST

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

This is an advice post. No one was calling you out or of that nature. No one is allowed to "out" you except yourself. If this post was about you specifically members are not allowed to contact you anyway. It is considered harassment as per our rules.

You are more than welcome to discuss the issue and participate in this community. However, you will need to tone your attitude down. This is your warning to remain civil or you will be banned.

No one was accusing you of anything. If the character is actually yours all you have to do is say "Yes, it is mine". The over the top attitude is absolutely unnecessary.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Well artist_beware against you then. The artist didn't link you, mention you or anything, they just asked a question.
Outing yourself and having this attitude makes me and I'm sure all other artists here NOT want to do business with you and your poor attitude.

MOD POST

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Alright, it doesn't seem you're capable of handling this right now. You're being suspended temporarily.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

No one even accused you of being a thief, the OP asked a question. However your behavior and grammar is typical of DA thieves which doesn't look good on you.

Thanks for the insults.

(frozen)

[duster.livejournal.com]

Holy overreaction, Batman.

I will just take this post as an unintentional beware. If the client is going to flip out and start insulting, swearing, and threatening people with physical harm, I think it's best to refund and block, regardless of the character kerfluffle.

(frozen) MOD POST

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Freezing this. This is unnecessary.

MOD POST

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Given that this is an advice post, we are screening the comments from the person whom this post is about.

Re: MOD POST

[mazz.livejournal.com]

I'd suggest the OP to make a beware post, the user in question shelled out so many abusive insults and violence I think a beware is well warranted for everyone to just steer clear.

Re: MOD POST

[frisket17.livejournal.com]

This.
Now I'm highly curious of the character/person.

Re: MOD POST

[tealmoonxiv.livejournal.com]

This!

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

As an artist, it isn't my job to go hunting for what characters may or may not be "stolen". It's my job to just draw what I'm paid to, and move on to the next customer. If there's a problem with the character, that can be sorted out between the people involved.

If you take on a commission and are later told that the character was "stolen" or whatever else, all you need to do is tell the inquirer that that is none of your business, you were only paid to draw the image, and you can't help them.

[yuki-fox-demon.livejournal.com]

I think it really depends. If my character was stolen, I would obviously not want art of it commissioned by the thief, but I'd understand if the artist had no idea. I agree that it's not their responsibility to check every single character they're commissioned to draw.

However, if they're given a probable reason to believe the commissioner does not own said character and are uncomfortable continuing the transaction, it's best to err on the side of caution and either decline the commission or try to confirm ownership. To go ahead with the art under such circumstances seems pretty unprofessional, and as the owner of the stolen character, I'd definitely hold the artist partly accountable.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

I disagree wholeheartedly. It's not an artists job to play detective, and it certainly isn't THEIR fault if someone commissions artwork of a character that isn't "theirs" (considering typically characters/ocs cannot and will not be trademarked or copyrighted or anything of the sort). It isn't unprofessional at all, considering, as I said, we aren't detectives. We're artists.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

I agree with both of you, in a way. You're right, it's really not an artist's responsibility to play detective, so I don't think it'd be unprofessional to actually do the art. That said, personally, I'd probably just decline if I felt uncomfortable about it, to avoid stepping on toes and all that. But it wouldn't be a question of professionalism, I don't think.

[matsiwolf.livejournal.com]

You would definitely need to include a "release from liability" clause in your terms of service for that one.

Here is an example of the one I used for my printing services:
"The customer assures *insert your name here* that images are free from any third-party rights, or that the customer has the permission from the owner of the rights to reproduce the image. The costs for possible infringements of copyright, personal rights or naming rights are to be borne completely by the customer. The customer also assures that by individualization of the product he does not infringe upon any other third-party rights.

The customer releases *insert your name here* from all demands and claims which are made due to the infringement of such third-party rights, as far as the customer is responsible for the breach of duty. The customer shall promptly reimburse *insert your name here* for all defense costs and other damages resulting from any such action"

[thaily.livejournal.com]

It's not the artist's job to play detective, but I do a courtesy background check when people commission me; I wouldn't want other people taking liberties with my characters, I wouldn't want to be the enabler for other people to take liberties with other people's characters.

I think the OP did a good job sussing this little thief out. And over an emo wolf character even, how hard is it to devise your own? :/

[niimou.livejournal.com]

Pretty much my sentiments as well. I'd also want to avoid being dragged into a conflict over a character as much as possible, and google searches aren't that hard.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

OH THAT'S WHY I GOT AN INFLIX OF ADD-REQUESTS ON THE GROUP. lol

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

I'm SORRY I keep forgetting there are a lot of AB people that aren't active LJ diggers

[sleetfury.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's the person that I found that I assumed owned it, judging by the comments all over a few of the reposts.

MOD POST

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Hi folks!

We aren't normally up for screening so much on any kind of post, but please keep in mind that it's not kosher to out individuals in advice posts. Please take this to PMs or a more appropriate venue.

Re: MOD POST

[frisket17.livejournal.com]

While definitely not arguing with the policy, just curious if it applies since they outted themselves by reply (even if is now currently screened)?

Re: MOD POST

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

It does! We* decided to screen the comments to keep the individual's identity private as with advice posts.

*There's three of us currently monitoring this post, just to be clear. :) So no one thinks Cel is the lone ranger going on a screening spree.

Re: MOD POST

[frisket17.livejournal.com]

No worries! :D
Thanks for clarification. Does make more sense to screen.

Re: MOD POST

[arphalia.livejournal.com]

Never aloooone! :)