Advice on how to handle this situation.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

   I'm reluctant to do a beware on this but a commissioner has me a little stressed out lately and I am simply asking for advice on how to handle it. The commission started as a complex part for a Second Life avatar that involves a lot of scripting. After finishing that the commissioner came back wanting it to be bigger and with more features and, though I shouldn't have I agreed to try and make another version and ran into roadblocks on how to finish scripting it.

   Because of these complications the commission took longer then expected and I eventually tried to refund the commissioner telling them that I don't think I'd be able to complete it, who became very disastified afterwards. With a disgruntled commissioner on my hands who refused my refund, I offered to complete them artwork in place of the Second Life build and the commissioner said that the replacement will "have to be at least a 10 page comic." Wanting to satisfy the customer I agreed to it and am currently about halfway through the commission, working on the comic in 5 page intervals.

   But then the commissioner decided that I am to make them the orginal Second Life object anyways, so I'm expected to complete that with now a 20 page comic on top of it. (Note: the commissioner insisted on it being 20 pages after I tried compressing the story they've given into 13) The result is about double the work now for the price of one, and as a result has been taking up my time and filling a slot that other commissions could take up. The whole experience has caused me to stop commissioning for anything Second Life related and since then I've included a TOS point of not communicating except by email (the commissioner used to litterally hound me both on Second Life and on Skype).

   What do I do? I've already tried refunding this person but they won't take it, and I fear they're going to report me on here if I inisit on it. Other commissions have gone quite smoothy it's just this one that's been troublesome.

Please note that I am reluctant to give any names because I really want to avoid a beware before trying to salvage the situation.

EDIT: Looking back on the logs the comic started out 10 pages, but over email I was given a story that I could only compress into 13 pages, only for the commisisoner to insist on it being 20. That's where the 20 page comic came from.

Comments

[okojosan.livejournal.com]

You have the right to refuse service if you refund the person (though I think you'd be owed a partial payment because you did complete work- it sounds like the commissioner then wanted something bigger and better which s/he should have paid for as an entirely new commission.)

Refund the money and stop all work. What can they complain about- "The artist refunded my money!"? :D Let them whine.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

To begin with, they're asking you to do double the work, when they have only paid you for one job. That is NOT okay.

You are in no way in the wrong to insist upon a refund if you feel you can't finish the work. I'd refund whether they say "yes" to a refund or not.

I'd also suggest posting a full beware about this client, as their actions, in my opinion, warrant it.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Go through your Paypal records, send the refund, and walk away. Unless they paid you a large sum of money, very little is worth a 20 page comic. You are allowed to refund a commission at any time, without any reason.

If they never paid you extra for these "bigger, more features", then they have no leg to stand on to keep demanding more and more from you. It seems like they figured they could push you around, and nothing is worth that.

They do not get their original item + a 20 page comic. No. Put a stop to this immediately. They can try to report you here, but I doubt any member here would take a client who came in and said "I wanted them to do this this and then THIS all for the original price I paid!!" seriously.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

This like I told you in PM when you asked me about it. They're a bully, stand up to them, refund them and block communication. If they attempt to post you here they'll end up causing it a beware of themselves or it won't even make it through because you did nothing wrong.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

To make matters worse, the payment was in "lindens" which is the Second Life currency, not dollars. It was a literal nightmare logging the payments because the commissioner would demand things and then pay be lindens before I could even agree to anything. There's also the complication of converting lindens into US dollars and calculating what that equivalent comes to.

Just one of the many reasons I've stopped doing Second Life commissions, my TOS now states that I will only be accepting payments through Paypal.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Just give them back the lindens and block them, for goodness sake. :c

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be looking to see if there is a record of linden exchanges as well, I just need it for verification since even the refund was so long ago.

Unfortunately, transaction history is limited to 31 days on the Second Life homepage. (ANOTHER reason I don't do linden exchanges anymore!) So I am going to have to search SL up and down to see if I can somehow get the chat logs from that date.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, jeesh. Even at my cheap comic prices, the comic alone would be $400 if I did it.

OP, the customer should get their original Second Life doomahickey thing (not this bigger upgraded thing plus a comic) and that is IT. Period. And if they manage to get a post through the queue here? Well, you can easily defend yourself and turn it around to show just how is at fault.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

They already have the original doomahickey and have been using it, that is considered a finished product.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with others and if no forceful refund is optional through Paypal, I'd just tell them that they either accept the refund, or you will consider their money as a willing donation and they will agree to it through not accepting the money returned.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

And screencap/save everything of that in case they later try to spin a tale of you "stealing their money" etc.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Yup, I now have a screenshot of the refund from my transaction history it shows where it went, the date and even has it's own id number.

[duster.livejournal.com]

Cease working, refund, and walk away. This guy is not entitled to more because he kicks and screams enough. If he's stressing you out that much it's not worth it and the entitlement is enough to pull the plug.

I doubt he can AB you. What is he gonna say? "I demanded more than I paid for and this artist gave me all my money back?"

[stormrunner1981.livejournal.com]

Refund and walk away as others have said.

If it is in Lindens and the person will not keep the lindens in their own hands refund them and block them - I don't believe they can pay you once that happens (unless they changed in in past 5 years).

[kaiiju.livejournal.com]

Tell them you no longer wish to work with them and refund them. They deny it? Refund them again.
You've done more than enough work for them. You went above and beyond what you were expected to do -- what you were PAID to do.

They don't have a valid claim, so their beware would either (probably) not go through or they would be laughed at/it would quickly turn into a "beware against the OP".
It's clear they're just bullying you into getting as much art from you for as little as they possibly can.
If anything, I would make a beware on them.

[orangemonsterco.livejournal.com]

I've gone through this before, refund the money, scrap what you have done so far, and refuse them the use of the work you've done so far. If it's even possible recycle what you have done for another client or offer it as a ych type thing.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

The simple answer is no. They accepted the comic, they get the comic. If that's enough, you are half way done with the comic, refund them half anyways. It is not their choice, and them trying to force you to do extra work they didn't pay for is completely unacceptable. It sounds like they are just trying to steam roll you over and get everything they can out of you.

Personally I'd say refund them the remainder and call it a done deal.

If you don't want to force a refund, you can give them a choice of you finishing the comic, or they get a refund, and make it clear those are the only choices available to them. If they do not chose one or refuse, refund them.

[roxyfur.livejournal.com]

If they hadn't gone back on their word, I would advise to continue working on the comic. But at this point it sounds like they're trying to bully you into doing more work than they paid for, which is not fair at all.

Refund them ASAP and walk away. If they decide to try and send the money back, do as vauvakolibri said and advise them that if they return the money, you'll be considering it a donation. Screencap everything, and if they continue to throw a fit, post a beware. Tbh, I think it warrants a beware already.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

This sounds like an awful situation. I don't know why your client has the idea they can refuse their own refund, but there's seriously no choice in the matter for them. As long as they are accurately compensated they have NO reason to make you do *anything*.
I would refund, scrap the comic, and never speak to that person again

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Refund them. Block them. if they send the money back to you refund it again, and call paypal to try and block his payments to you.

Block him. AB him.

[tisiphone.livejournal.com]

I agree with everyone else - refund and block. Screencap everything and consider ABing, because this is unacceptable. You have long since done the work they paid for, and their demands are well out of proportion for what they must have paid.

In future, make sure you have a written specification of the work you've agreed to do, and a stipulation that any edits or changes that aren't due to your failing to deliver what you promised will be extra. Most people will be honest and straightforward, but some will take every opportunity to take advantage of you. Don't let them.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

Yeah, what this person wants is 100% absurd.

Nobody can REFUSE a refund, it doesn't work like that. A creator is not held hostage by their client.

Also, I would very, very much like to know the name of this person because that is appalling behavior/expectations and I absolutely want to stay as far away from that person as possible.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

I'd really appreciate it if you wrote a full AB on them. This is entirely unacceptable behavior, and I really want to know who it is so that they can be avoided.

[mazzy techna (from livejournal.com)]

please make a full beware about them , this is just wrong on their end and needs to be posted.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

Just REFUND them. They can't refuse a refund. Send it back to their SL account and block them, or if they paid by Paypal, click the refund button and send it back to them, then block them.

Then you're done with them. If they post an AB about you, so what? Just show your proof that you refunded them and they were trying to take major advantage of your kindness, and it'll turn into a beware on them instead.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the advice and support, I think I'm going to hold to what I meant when I said I'd "Do what I can" with the Second Life commission and get it to a finished state, specifically one that functions though maybe not with all the bells and whistles it was originally going to have. I've already finished the animations for it last night and just need to do one more series of scripts. The goal is to get the object to a state that can be considered done, so I can close the commission and move on. The customer is going to have to be satisfied with that because as you know I've been bending over backwards for this person the whole time.

Since the comic is nearly half way done and happens to be originally agreed upon 10 pages, I'm going to discontinue doing any additional pages.

The grand sum is a finished product and more then enough work to cover the linden payment, double in fact since the comic is free.

The AB requests have been noted and I'm considering it, I first want to close the commission so I can finally have closure and freedom. Then I need to gather IM's and evidence, which thanks to the exchanges being between FurAffinity, Skype, Second Life AND email (grr, this is why I only accept emails anymore...) that'll be a chore in of itself.

I also want to make a point that I've done mistakes too, another thing you probably got from the OP. The whole learning experience was such that I had to amend my TOS just over the various things wrong with this commission, which has to be an achievement of some kind...

Finally the main reason I've been reluctant to post an AB at first is I DO NOT LIKE DOING THIS. I'd much rather keep good relations with my customers and indeed most other commissions have gone well.

Another thing complicating the matter is checking Second Life chat history since the transaction history only goes to about a month in the past. The commissioner has told me that my last refund went over what they've paid, though it was based on me calculating what he gave between when the commission started and the ad-ons that led to the problem. The poor way Second Life tracks payments is one of the major reasons I'm not accepting lindens anymore, and I now wonder if this commissioner was taking advantage of that.

The one exchange I do remember was an initial 10,000 lindens or 40 US dollars. I may have to refund 50 cover additional payments the commissioner gave me without my permission when discussing features and additional stuff.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

And now he's telling me over IM that a friend alerted him to this journal despite the fact that I purposely left names out.

He said I can keep the money and went on to call me a "drama llama" while going on and on about how professional he was trying to be in the same post.

Right. Well, I'm guess I'm going to do the AB post after all.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Personally I'd try to get the money to them anyway because I don't want that hanging over my head and/or them attempting to use that against me with other potential clients later.

And this is coming from someone who told a person they commissioned to keep the cash and forget the commission after 2+ years of no artwork.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

That's true, again I'm reviewing SL chat logs now to look for linden exchanges so I can be accurate with it.

MOD COMMENT

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Advice posts are to remain anonymous at all times. Sorry your comment, and any other comments of a similar vein are going to be screened immediately.

[mazzy techna (from livejournal.com)]

please do post the beware.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

Yeaaaah you're not a drama llama at all. This person has a skewed view of reality if a post like yours is ~~~dramatic~~~. You made your post - a post asking for advice in a situation in which it is totally legitimate to do so [and rarely is it not!] - and left out identifying information other than the stuff that simply can't be left out lest there's no actual post to begin with. Only the person who this is about and maybe somebody close to him would know. This person has received more than fair compensation for their funds and you've been, if anything, too nice about everything.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

In whatever case I'm trying to be the professional one of the two, not taking emotion into account and trying to reach a solution rather then acting out of malice or vengeance.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

As an update I've payed a refund and am ready to end the commission. If the exchange goes well I think I'm going to decline to make an AB post simply because I really just want to be done with the commission first and foremost.

[devildove.livejournal.com]

I'd like to add my voice to the number of people asking for a full beware. It seems very likely that if this person isn't called on their behaviour then they'll treat other artists they commission in the future the same way. Imagine if someone had posted a beware on this person before they commissioned you - you might have seen it and avoided all of this misery. It would be very generous to help protect future artists from this person.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

So much this.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

He's already seen this journal and the mere threat of posting an AB seemed to hit home, since he's come clean and accepted the refund and thus ended the commission. I'm hoping he'll learn to consider his bad behavior because of the whole ordeal and thus don't want to punish him for accepting the refund.

[devildove.livejournal.com]

Fair enough, of course! I'm really glad you two were able to get it sorted out.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Do whatever is comfortable for you. If that means no beware, that's fine. Your peace of mind is just as good of a result.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

I kind of want to reward him for accepting the refund to be honest.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Please don't.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Don't reward him for accepting the refund, but it's okay not to make a beware if you don't feel the need. Please don't feel pressured into doing so.

[rimpala.livejournal.com]

Well, I meant it that way anyways. If it's any reassurance the commissioner seems to have been freaked out just stumbling on to this entry, which has caused him to reconsider his behavior and allowed me to try the refund a second time.

My two goals were to end the commission and make it clear that said behavior is not tolerated. I feel like making a beware will only continue the drama that has been happening since the commission started showing problems, as I'm sure he's still lurking about somewhere here.

(frozen)

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Post the AB anyways. You'll be able to warn a lot of people he may commissions in the future and save them from going through what you have.

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Alright, the OP has stated several times that they don't want to post an AB. I am asking all of you to please respect that decision and stop pressuring them to do so, it is heading into harassment territory at this point. Any further comments doing so will result in moderator action.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Please guys, don't pressure the OP into posting a beware if they just want to refund the client and get them out of their hair and simply move on with their life.

While yes everyone can be curious WHO it was, OPs comfort needs to be considered as well. They made a decision, please respect it.

(frozen) MOD NOTE

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Please pay attention to the dates of these posts, before commenting. As well as looking for mod notices.

We will always going forward title our posts to make them visible when threads collapse.

Screening now.