Beware: Avante92 on FurAffinity - Resolved

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

Update - 3/12/2015 - Resolved I have finally been sent a refund by the artist. Proof of refund:


This is the first time I've been burnt by an artist and my first beware.  I really really don't want to have to post this, but I feel there is no choice left in the matter 6 months after being promised a refund that never came.  TL:DR version is I paid for art, artist cancelled 3 months later, another two months went by with me trying to get my refund before they cut off contact.  Now I'm posting this because, well, what else can I do?

WHO: Avante92

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/avante92/

WHAT: Basic digital art, $35 commission.  Was to be a picture of one of my characters and a person who is dear to me.  I of course had the permission of said person to get them included in this art.

WHEN: I made the request in July 2014.  At first the person contacted me, they were not comfortable drawing one of the characters as a plush, so I said it was ok to make them both normal furs.  Months passed and in September 2014, I was contacted to say due to circumstances out of their control, they had to cancel my commission (and implied I wasn't the only one).  I was promised a full refund that would be coming "soon".  I'm sure you all can guess how it went from there.

PROOF: Initial contact

So I give the my info and pay my $35.  Their acceptance is below:

And my proof of payment:

... and then in September.. cancellation.  And then the excuses start.
I was pretty easy going about this given how long I waited to keep reaching out about it.

Ok, so they are having trouble, but I'm starting to lose patience quickly.  Its $35, not a whopping amount really.  Most people spend that on a gas every week or two.  Also there is the whole thing where an artist should not make their problems their customers problems.  If it means asking your friends for loans, thats fine, its at least being up front and most artists I've seen who have this problem do just that.  But jerking around your customers to get a free loan?  That is just bad :/

Finally I've had enough after antoher two weeks.  No more Mr. Nice Fur.

EXPLAIN:
Pretty much explained it all above in the sceenies.  I've seen this person finish many commissions, but I have to wonder how many people also never got art.

If you see this person open, and their art is really quite good, I would steer clear because this person cannot be trusted with your money and there is no telling how many other people have been victimized.  In the future I will now be paying via paypal using a credit card and having a 6 month limit on waiting so I can do a chargeback if things go south or they don't make the deadline.  Sadly bank transfers don't have much more than 90 days of being able to charge back and by the time they cancelled on me, it was already too late to get my money that way.  I really hate to adopt such a policy, but its people like this that make it necessary :/

Oh and I'll also add, I don't know if FA will suspend people who do this crap, but I put in a ticket asking and in true FA style it was never gotten to by an Admin.

Comments

mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Howdy!

Your post needs an LJ cut as it is rather large. Here's the instructions on how to make one:
http://www.livejournal.com/support/faq/75.html

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

Sorry about that! It actually did have a cut, but somehow the lj cut end tag ended up right after the start tag >.< Fixed now!

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Just to note, paypal has upped the amount of time you can chargeback now. I don't remember the amount, I think it's 150 days?

[latiro.livejournal.com]

180 days, actually.

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

Not according to Pay Pal:
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/buyer-complaint-outside

45 days it says.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

As of November 18th 2014 Paypal's limit has been changed to 180 days. (https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full)

Unfortunately, it doesn't help you in this case. You may be able to seek recourse through your bank, however.

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

Well its too late now, this happened last year, I've only now gotten around to the beware thing. I doubt I'll ever see my money again, but I at least want to warn people that this person cannot be trusted.

[adzuki.livejournal.com]

Try contacting your bank directly, they may be able to help you out.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Yes I know that. I said that because you were going to use 90 days as a rule with other artists, so I was letting you know it's been extended further.

[gokai-chibi.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised to see this, I've worked with avante in the past and he was very quick. I guess maybe he took on more he could handle.

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

Well taking on too much, it happens. He offered a refund, but then never gave it, stone walled over and over and at this point has pretty much stolen the money now. I don't know what I did to set him off or provoke this behavior. I wasn't a jerk during the process, I was nice until November when I finally told him what I think of how he's handled this situation and that was months after he promised a refund multiple times.

When I first commissioned the pic, I wanted one character to be a plush, but he wasn't comfortable drawing that for some reason (it was tame) but I said that was perfectly fine and he could just draw them both as normal living creatures. Then months passed and I was told he had to refund my money because something came up (well the emails are above, you can see them). After that it was excuses despite waiting very patiently for weeks. Finally I'd had enough. Even after November when I finally made my displeasure fully known, I still waited until now to post this. I gave him all the time that could be expected and more. I know money problems happen, but popular artists are in a position few others are... they can post a "I need help" type thing and people will just give them money, or even loan it long term. That is being fair and up front about it and I'm sure he would have got what he needed to help out. Instead he chose to rip me and who knows how many other people off rather than swallow his pride and ask for help.

So now we're at this point. He's up here listed as a bad actor. I hated to have to post this, but he has no one to blame but himself. If he refunds the money, I will come back to update this as resolved. If not, well, its up to him. I for one doubt I'll ever see my money and its not as important as warning others that this guy has a history now of taking peoples money and not producing the goods or a refund. He's lucky I don't file a criminal complaint of theft (which I could still do), but honestly that would probably cost more than it is worth.

I don't know if he will see this or care, but I hope no one else gets victimized, or he refunds the money and learns from this thing.

[gokai-chibi.livejournal.com]

Oh I understand, I was just surprised to see him on here. I hope you're able to get your refund in the end though.

(frozen)

[geeflakes (from livejournal.com)]

Excuse me but aren't you just making a fuss about it and being a loudmouth, when he actually gave you half already ?

What, do you think money just grow from trees form us Artists ?

At least he's being honest enough for giving you informations about the situation.

You know what ? Give me your paypal adress, and I'll pay the 35 dollar back if that can shut your trap up.

(frozen)

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

He gave me half? That certainly is news to me because I had not received one cent back at the time I posted this beware! Nor had I ever received the initially agreed upon artwork. If you are going to make claims that like that you had better have proof to back it up!

Anyone who knows me knows I don't make stuff up and I don't cheat artists. I posted my screenshots and proof throughout. If you or Avante have some claim here, you need to do the same otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

What, do you think money just grow from trees form us Artists?
Oh are you really going to go there? So its ok for an artist to take a customers money, cancel the commission (yes they cancelled it, not me) and then keep the money for 9 months as a free loan? Your indignation on this and $5 might get you a coffee at Starbucks, but here and among professional and amateur artists alike it isn't going to get you very far.

Rule #1 in the art or any other business, you never screw customers like this. If you have a personal problem, you ask for a deadline extension, or you refund the money promptly. If you are in bad financial straits, ask your friends and fans up front for loans/donations and you will probably get it. Artists with a fan base have this perk and it takes some pride swallowing, but they can and should use it if things get that bad. What they should not do is to shanghai their customers money for an indefinite period instead. This is bad for business and it will reflect back on you as an artist. I waited a lot longer to post them here than most people would have. They are up here due to their own actions.

At least he's being honest enough for giving you informations about the situation.
After several months and then I was blocked. I didn't initiate the cancellation, they did and they promised a prompt refund. See the emails above. It also doesn't excuse this happening in the first place. Customers are not an interest free bank for you to take indefinite loans from. Customers are people and chances are they saved up their money to buy art for themselves or someone else and instead it gets put in limbo for who knows how long with nothing to show for it. That is not right and under many state or national laws, it is subject to civil and even criminal action.

You know what ? Give me your paypal adress, and I'll pay the 35 dollar back if that can shut your trap up.
I had a perfect right to complain about this treatment. Interestingly enough, 10 minutes after you posted this, I was sent my $35 back by Avante. Either he came up with it or you gave it to him, but it did finally come through. I'm dubious that I would have ever seen it had I not posted this but hey, there it is. That said, I will update this as resolved and even post proof I got the refund. But I do hope he learned something from this.

(frozen)

[geeflakes (from livejournal.com)]

Actually he have the conversation when he ask for your address so he can send it to you.

And you never answered.

But that doesn't matter anymore is it ? :) I gave him the money to pay you back. And enough too so he can still EAT.

Thank you for your patience you awesome human being !

PS: " What, do you think money just grow from trees form us Artists?
Oh are you really going to go there? So its ok for an artist to take a customers money, cancel the commission (yes they cancelled it, not me) and then keep the money for 9 months as a free loan? "

Yes I'm going there. You might still live with your parents or having a comfortable life, or some help or I don't know, but some of us doesn't.

I'm not going to give details of how much Avante had to SPENT for MEDICAL, CAR INSURANCE, and RENT, but I'll give you a slight idea : 35$ is nothing.

Oh and, by the way, you're welcome, for the 35$ I gave you. That was my pleasure.

(frozen) mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Don't behave this way in this community.

Taking money for a service does not mean you get to guilt trip clients when they ask for it back. If one cannot handle that simple function of commissioning, then one has no business taking money for the service.

(frozen)

[geeflakes (from livejournal.com)]

I can guilt trip them when they have been asked an information for the refund that they DON'T give then they go said that thet've been scammed.
I know how to business thank you very much I don't think I need a lesson here. But when I don't get enough informations I can't invent those.

So next time try to communicate. It will save time for everyone and make you less frustrated.

(frozen)

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Don't continue threads mods have frozen. This is your warning.

(frozen)

[geeflakes (from livejournal.com)]

My warning ? I made this account just for paid this guy back. And I did.

You want to ban me on a website, that allow people to actually lie on how things was and to give "proof" that can't be verified ?

Go ahead, be my guest, please.

(frozen)

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

This is your three day suspension. The artist is always welcome to come and share their side, however hostility only hurts you.

[randy nickolson (from livejournal.com)]

Kind of sad that he couldn't respond himself. do not trust this woman or the bait she poorly attempts to protect

[arcturax.livejournal.com]

Yeah I know. I never received this communication she is harping on about. Why would they need to get my info? The already had it in their paypal history! If they had my email, they had my paypal info. Their story changed too. First it was that I got half back already, then it was they offered half and I ignored it. That never happened. They refunded me quickly enough once they had someone else's money in hand to do it with, they didn't need to ask my info for that, so why didn't they already have it back when this purported email went out? The story doesn't add up. I'm not going to reply back to any more of whatever she says because everyone can already see it for the bullshit that it is. Best to just let this lie as resolved as the mods have already frozen most of the conversation here and I got my money back finally.