(no subject)

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

It's not often I have to post about someone, but I think the time has come.

On March 23rd, I was commissioned by Karl Kratt (hyenafur on FA) to create an image of two of his characters.  My standard policy is for the client to send payment after the sketch is finalized.

On March 27th, I sent him a low-res copy of the first sketch.  On the 29th, I sent him a finalized sketch. He approved, so I let him know that he could send payment, and I would begin coloring.

He had been thinking of having me do a second image as well, so I was going to combine the fees for both and give him a total. After several weeks of not hearing from him, I emailed him back, asking for a status report.  Because he was low on funds, he decided not to get the second image, and just pay for the first, which I agreed to.

It is now May 20th, and several times I have been told that 'bills ate all my money this month' when I have inquired about when I would be paid.

Now, this is a person that commissions a lot of artists, which I appreciate. And I've seen plenty of other artists upload images he has commissioned. Whether or not these pieces are art have been paid recently, MY time and effort has gone unpaid for.  I understand the importance of keeping your bills paid, but my art is a bill that needs to be paid as well.

This is a nice, polite guy, so while I don't want to dissuade anyone from doing business with him, I want to strongly caution anyone he contacts about commissioning to get the money up front.  Personally, I will most likely not do business with him again.

EDIT:  At this point, I have received payment from him via a third party, the art is finished, and the transaction is (finally) closed.

Comments

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

how utterly odd. I've never had any problems with Karl, but I've always asked for payment up front. I hope you get your payment soon, just keep pressing it.

[immortalpanda.livejournal.com]

Oh hyenafur. I've heard so many horror stories about this guy. He either doesn't pay in a timely fashion, or he harrasses you constantly about finishing his pieces. I'll never EVER accept a commission from this guy.

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

AGREED. AGREED. AGREED.

My hyenafur tale is kind of long. I'll be making a separate post for mine.

[lyenuv.livejournal.com]

Oh lordy. I wasn't gonna say anything about it, but since there's already a post about him, I may as well.

He continually commissioned me with no problems for over a year, but he tried getting way too personal/buddy buddy with me, sending me countless IM's throughout the day, even after me telling him I was busy. It got to the point to where I blocked him from my AIM (and he IM'd me from no less than FIVE other AIM accounts asking why) and told him in a PM that I was no longer using AIM to converse with customers, but I would be happy to talk to him through PM/Email. He got insanely butthurt about it and left me a bunch of bawww'y PM's, saying that he thought we were best friends, how could I do this to him, etc etc. I had owed him a few unfinished commissions at the time, and we agreed to continue them, though I was growing weary of him.

He then went on to assume that my fiance was physically abusing me, because of this picture uploaded - http://www.furaffinity.net/view/939565/ He sent me a note saying that I should speak out against the abuse, and that I shouldn't deal with it silently, that he couldn't deal with his friend putting up with it. Obviously, my fiance is not physically abusing me, or he wouldn't be my fiance :| I just went through my LJ account and found a copypasta of the original note he sent me about it.

I know what is going on, and I have to say I feel sorry for you. I know you don't want to talk about it, so don't, actions and history speak louder than anything he can say or write. What has and is happening isn't right, and I can't in good conscience stand by and see him destroy my friend. If you truely think I am a stalker or if you agree with what I have said, please call me and tell me in your own words. My number is on facebook, but here it is anyway; (number withheld).

He then made a cryptic journal on FA saying that one of his close friends was in a lot of trouble, and it was people like my fiance that made him want to get a concealed carry license so he could bring guns to conventions. (A few months later, he DID get the license)

That was the breaking point for me, and I sent him an irate PM telling him that his unfinished commissions were getting refunded and he was getting blocked from every site we both frequented. He not only tried contacting me on yet MORE AIM handles, but also my gmail, hotmail, LJ and Devart accounts, going so far as to start harassing me, and telling my friends that I was a horrible person. Enter more baawing, and him demanding a FULL refund for a commission project that was 90% complete. A 7 piece set of characters for him, 6/7 of which were complete, and UPLOADED on his FA, and the 7th inked, of which he had. He made 3-4 journal entries complaining that it wasn't fair that I wouldn't give him a full refund, and making ridiculous comparisons for it. He demanded a $200 refund for two full pictures and the 7 piece set, and he originally only paid $160 for all of those. He ended up with a refund of $80, $70 for the two pictures, and $10 for the cell shading for the last picture of the series I hadn't colored. It took about two months to get him the refund, we had just found out I was pregnant at the time, and were making a costly move to my fiance's parents house to save money for an apartment/baby things, and he made FA journals nearly every day complaining how I was totally screwing him over, etc. Even now, he's STILL trying to contact me comments I made on other people's art, because he cant comment on my page since I blocked him.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/1297760/

I might be able to pull up the screenshots from a few of his journals, including the one in which he wished he had a gun so he could free me from my oh so abusing fiance, I'll have to search through my HD to find them.

I know a good bit of this doesn't apply to his standing as a customer, but if I'd have known he'd have turned out like this when I got the first note from him asking for a commission, I sure as hell would have declined.

There's a LOT more on him that I could type out, but my hands are already cramping 3:

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Wow, creepy stalker is creepy O_o

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

D:


Wow.

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

You'd be surprised how much of this is out of context.

[thrivis.livejournal.com]

That is... bonkers. D:

I hope I never run into a situation like this when I start commissions up. x_x

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

For the most part, commissions aren't horrible. At times, you have to remain objective and not get TOO friendly with the commissionee. Sometimes that lets the creepy in.

Just be fair, confident, and always request at least 50% of the payment up front. :)

*edited for grammar*

[quaylak.livejournal.com]

holy crap. the really scary part is dude e-mailed me the other day asking for a couple of things, but i had to turn him down due to AC coming up and me being overloaded. i'm suddenly SO GLAD i did, since this post popped up a couple days later and i would have totally regretted taking on his commissions. i'm always overly friendly with commissioners, so i have no doubt i would have gotten swept up in the drama and had something like your experience happen to me. x__x;

i hope things are at least a LITTLE better for you now. :(

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

No, Lyenuv is taking multiple things out of context. Over all I'm fairly good about commissions, ect.

[fyphfoko.livejournal.com]

"but my art is a bill that needs to be paid as well"

word!

[littlefoxie.livejournal.com]

I can attest to what happened between hyenafag and Lyenuv, and also ended up involved in the end because of his harassment and threats.

He's a creep.

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

I second on the attesting. Ugh. I'm sorry you had to get involved. T_T

[littlefoxie.livejournal.com]

it's okay. It was tons of fun arguing with him >.>

He really fails at making a convincing argument for himself, he only really stopped with the major part of the harrassment when I made him aware I was screen shotting the journals before he could bawwlete them.

Just a thought...?

[johnthornbush.livejournal.com]

Now, I hope this does not get me killed - as I certainly do not know all the details, and this is the first time I've weighed in on this community. Just to play devil's advocate here for a second - so please don't throw too many rocks? I have just been on the side of the commissioner, and let me tell ya - sometimes stuff really *does* come up. Dog gets hit by a car, end up owing the IRS money, illness renders your next paycheck smaller than you had planned on, etc... Now, yes, someone who is avidly prepared would have put the money away to pay when ready - but I think we've been in situations where we've had to pay money that we hadn't planned to spend when we hadn't planned on spending it. I know from the commissioner's perspective - I've had artists tell me something will take a week, which becomes a month, which then goes to a year - sometimes with no communication at all - which would about the same parallel.

Now, what seperates a person from the merely unprepared and the truly fink'ish person is how they handle it. I know that my personal policy is that if I ever do fall short on my own agreements, I agree to 1) provide a timeline as to when someone will expect to get paid, 2) Apologize profusely and 3) Assess myself a penality, an additional amount that I hope will help smooth over hard feelings, paid out to the artist for their hard work. So far, I've only had it happen once (*knocks on wood*) and it worked out. But both sides need to communicate, and work through snafus in scheduling, pricing, and payment.

Now, as to his behavior - yeah, that's over the 'acceptable' line by a wide margin - no question there. It sounds like he is a serious control freak - and life is just uncontrollable sometimes.

Re: Just a thought...?

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

Oh, believe me honey, I understand about how Real Life (tm.) gets in the way. Two months is a long time to not be able to scrounge up the money, though, especially since I had the image finalized to his satisfaction and ready for color within six days.

This is a person that commissions A LOT of art, so I have to wonder where my payment is when I see other artists posting work of theirs that he's paid for, y'know?

Re: Just a thought...?

[johnthornbush.livejournal.com]

No sweat - I just wanted to inject a little 'from the other side' into the conversation - as a lot of artists were weighing in. :)

Yeah, two months is a LONG time with no money... I mean... if it were me - I would have found SOME WAY to pay, or talked things out to figure out an amicable solution to things so all parties are happy.

Yeah, it is a bit kooky as how you explained it.

Re: Just a thought...?

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I wondered the entire year I waited for my payment. I would see new art for him pop up all the time and it caused me a fair bit of anxiety.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Well, I would have contacted you, but you were extremely rude the first and only time I talked to you on gmail. And I did pay you.

Re: Just a thought...?

[crashska.livejournal.com]

No, the real problem is while Foxy understood that after getting the sketch approved you would send payment, we never saw anything. In fact, there was a small exchange on FA after you left a passive/aggressive comment on her journal:

Hyenafur *cough**charactersheet**cough*

Foxy Dude, not to sound rude, but I haven't seen anything but emails from you, asking when it's finished. As far as commissions go, I like to see a bit up front - after I post the initial sketch and before I post the final product, as do most people. That ensures I don't get screwed in the end. Now your character sheet IS done. I wouldn't advertise other commissions unless I had prior obligations under control.

hyenafur Sorry. Sorry. My bad.

It was that comment which soured Foxy's attitude towards you. Then for several months, we saw other, newer commissions for you being completed (and presumably paid for) but no payment forthcoming for your character sheet. Finally she asked you outright about it, and you tried to play it like you had paid for the piece. I had to dig through eight months of Paypal records to confirm that you in fact had not yet paid. After being confronted with that evidence, we did in fact get payment from you, and sent your artwork.

So there's some of the "missing context."

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Well, if you remember correctly.... I went throug US Army Basic Training, then AIT, which explains why I hadn't contacted you. And it was paid off in the end and I'm sorry there was the miscommunication.

Re: Just a thought...?

[crashska.livejournal.com]

To be honest? I don't remember, because you never informed us.

It still doesn't wash, though. Foxy informed you that your character sheet was done in November 2006. Between then and March of 2007, new art was posted to your FA page on a regular basis. That's four months before it appears you began training, so I don't see how that prevented you from contacting Foxy.

I'm also sorry that there was miscommunication, but that doesn't excuse making libelous posts about people in order to create a revisionist history.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

No she didn't. She never e-mailed me or mentioned to me that it had been finished. She never e-mailed me and said "Hey, you're commission is finished. When would you like to pay for it?" She never did any of that. And I contacted her, and every time all she ever did was bitch at me about doing so. I've also heard artists tell me "Oh I don't take new commissions until the old ones are finished," then I turn around and they've finished other people's quick commissions and put everyone elses off.
And another thing, why the fuck am I talking to you and not to Foxxy? And why does she fell that she can whine and bitch about her shitty ass communication skills? Honestly, I've seen chimps communicate to people better than her.

Re: Just a thought...?

[crashska.livejournal.com]

You're not talking to me, I'm talking to you. I have a stronger stomach for douchbaggery.

You need to step off, munchkin.

Re: Just a thought...?

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

And at this point, I would ask why you are acting like an immature child on a public forum 3 months after the fact.

My husband is my agent now, because of dealing with pesty people like you. He has far more patience with dealing with people than I do, and quite frankly, I've had too much stuff on my plate to take time out and tell you to let this go.

I told you (on FA, and I have screencaps) that your commission was finished and all you had to do was send payment. I also informed you that I would not take on new commissions until I had previous matters under control.

I'd say more, but I think your reactions here say far more about you than your accusations could ever say about me.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Uhm, no, I'm talking to you, not the other way around.

It's my right to post to a public forum at my leasure, not matter if I'm 2 minutes into it or 3 months after it, it is still my right to post whenever I want.

So you have to speak to me through a moderator. And no, you never directly contacted me or mentioned it.

You did not contact me at about it. I have proof that states the complete and total opposite of what you've been saying here on this little thread.

I'm not the only one to say you have communication issues, and you seriously do. It's also not my fault I didn't get in contact with you. How can I get in contact with you when you've blatantly told me to not contact you about a commission? I have e-mails dating back to October 2006, and there is nothing from you saying anything like, "Hey, your commission is done, where's my money?"

And you are now stooping so low as to call me a munchkin just because I'm younger than you?

Re: Just a thought...?

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

Who are you talking to? I didn't call you a munchkin. o.O

Furthermore, he's not a moderator; he is my AGENT. Many artists use them. He came on to help me because of my quote/unquote poor communication skills. I don't deny that. Furry is not the end-all of my existence. I have a full-time job and at the time I was in the process of moving cross-country (which, your commission was done prior to the move)

I did tell you it was done on FA.
So, just because it wasn't a personal email makes it any less valid?

I'm telling you this: Let. It. Go. You've griped about me; I've griped about you. The commission is done. You got your art; I got my money. It was a communication SNAFU, but seriously... when you commission someone, don't ask about the progress constantly. It's annoying and causes ill feelings. I wouldn't have had a single problem with you (nor a communication breakdown because I was so irritated) if you hadn't kept gchatting/IMing me. I generally don't talk to my clients outside of project discussion, unless I knew them from before.

Besides, I've told others GOOD points about you, and I've even said it was partially my fault for the communication break down b/c I got weirded out.

At this point, this has succumbed to a stupid he said/she said argument. I don't care, and I'm not wasting my time any further. Good day, sir.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm sorry that whole thing got fucked up. If you ever want to do art for me, I'm open.

I guess I caught up to this whole post a little late in the game, which is my fault, and I'm sorry I brought it up.

You're not a bad person, I just think I popped a few fuses because I'm still dealing with Lyenuv and her drama queen portrayal of everything.

This is in all honesty a really stupid argument and I'm sorry I brought it back up.

Re: Just a thought...?

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

I don't want to argue either.

I'm happy to call things even and not get into any more. I apologize for the confusion, and I understand why you got upset.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I'm an expert at making myself look like a fucktard at times.

Re: Just a thought...?

[crashska.livejournal.com]

I'll step up and say I'm sorry as well. You're right- we're arguing about something that's rather pointless, and if you're willing, I'd like to bury the hatchet with no hard feelings.

And looking through things, I realize that I've never thanked you for joining the Service- I really respect that. Thank you, and thanks for becoming an aircraft maintainer!

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Just under the stress of having to take a condensed language final and deploy is taking it's toll.

Hehe, I actually don't maintain the aircraft, I work in operations, so I make sure all the flight plans are correct, that the aircraft are refueled when they land or take off, keep the weather and condition reports up to date. I'd actually have a sweet gig if they ever let us have the one weather prediction class.

Re: Just a thought...?

[crashska.livejournal.com]

Even better- having someone in Ops to handle that stuff makes pilots happy. Stuff gets really annoying without someone to keep it in order.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Yeah, plus my experience with radios comes in handy when they don't have anyone around that knows how to use them. My only problem is that I'm deploying with a different unit and not in my MOS.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

And I save all my e-mails, and there's nothing on any of them from November 2006.

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

I have over 300 e-mails in my inbox, and they go back all the way to October of 2006, and there are no e-mails for Foxxy saying "You're commission is done, now where's my money."

Re: Just a thought...?

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Not to mention you told me not to contact you about it, that you would contact me.

[wolfgangcake.livejournal.com]

i never had a problem with him. you just need to talk with and work dela with him, just don't hop right into to it.

[kairietsyvian.livejournal.com]

that's so weird, i've never had problems with him.
im really sorry to hear that he has given so many people trouble -_-
stuuupiiiiid

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

No, only a few people have beef, and if you understand what happened and listened to all sides, you'd know that most of this is taken out of context.

[rharwen.livejournal.com]

Did this eventually get resolved? Cause I've heard that he's been commisioning some other people lately?

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Thanks for reminding me; I have updated the entry :3

[mornmeril.livejournal.com]

Well, situations like this are why I never commission anyone. I will, most likely, end up unable to pay. So I don't commission. Simple? Quite so.

[theassassinnox.livejournal.com]

As a note to all who are just skimming, this issue (with Foxy Fennec) has been resolved further up this page.

Just a note from someone who came in late in the game and actually bothered to read through all that crap.

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Ty for reading, but since it's a mute point, it's going to the trash bin now.

[theassassinnox.livejournal.com]

Fair enough, I just wanted to make sure that accusations weren't left hanging out in the open.

I'm glad that you two figured it out and are willing to let it go. *nods*

[hyenafur.livejournal.com]

Same here